Explain Layman, please.

[riverman]

for all the hatin’ on ET I do he is actually really, really good at dribbling with his head up and finding Layman (and others) especially on the break or semi-transition.

He's the best alley oop passer we have had since Andre Miller

 

[riverman]

My mind changed on him at a preseason game I attended when he went supernova against the Suns. He reminded me of a more athletic Peja Stojakovics due to the high, quick release and similar stroke on the 3 ball.

I think he plays a lot like a Pistons era young Grant Hill

 

[riverman]

Jake has become what I'd hoped Victor Claver would have become...shoutout to the young man...people all across the league now know his name...whenever they mention the Blazers he's starting to be part of that conversation...

 

[Scalma]

I think he plays a lot like a Pistons era young Grant Hill

How?

 

[42N8Bounce]

Might he be in the running for MIP? Not sure which other players are having break-out seasons this year.

Here's a look at how Jake Layman compares to the other top MIP candidates this year -



This chart primarily looks at scoring. Granted other criteria is considered, but points carries the most weight.

Jake Layman compares favorably. He by far has the biggest jump in Per36 pts, True Shooting Percentage, and PER. Zach LaVine is scoring the most points out of this group. Derrick Rose has the biggest year-over-year points change.

He won't win the MIP award, but it certainly is nice to even have this discussion.

 

[jlprk]

https://stats.nba.com/player/1627774/shooting/

View attachment 24829

I used Basketball-Reference. I went here

http://bkref.com/tiny/xoBna

I sorted the Description column, then manually counted the Layman lines by assister. There are 7 pages of it. Then I cross-checked results against this.

http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/uzNr7

I got exactly the same results you did on NBA.com. I wasted a half-hour.

 

[JDC]

Uh... finishing/scoring in traffic? Have you been watching the games?!?

He's a great off ball finisher / advantage scorer. But very little of what he's doing inside the 3pt line is self created.

I don't think that's purely due to his role either, but speaks more to his strengths and weaknesses that have been the same since his early years in college.

And just because I don't think Jake is a future all star in hiding, doesn't mean I don't like him or haven't enjoyed his development this year. He's definitely been one of the highlights of the season.

 

[Jade Falcon]

 

[ripcityboy]

I am not concerned about Layman as a scorer or facilitator. His level of performance has increased exponentially with what we have been asking him to do. I want him to eventually be able to be an average defender at his position. But I believe he has the instincts and athleticism to do that with proper coaching. If we re-sign him and keep increasing his minutes, I believe he can be a longtime starter for us.

 

[TBpup]

https://stats.nba.com/player/1627774/shooting/

View attachment 24829

Thank you kind sir.

Another interesting way to look at these is to align the assist numbers with the lineup data in bbref.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laymaja01/lineups/2019

For instance, Layman's got 10 assists from CJ in 544 minutes of court time, as compared to 7 from Collins in basically half as many (275) minutes. Turner's 25 assists in 273 minutes is a bit more impressive through that lens.

Basically, CJ doesn't pass. Zach Lowe had an article where he talked about CJ and how he drives to the basket like a fullback. My first thought was, 'fullbacks don't pass either.'

 

[riverman]

How?

His handles...lack of hesitation...athleticism...nose for the rim..shooting stroke....I'm talkin' pre injury Pistons Grant, not rehabbed Suns Grant...he's not the defender Grant was though but with regular minutes that might change

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

He's a great off ball finisher / advantage scorer. But very little of what he's doing inside the 3pt line is self created.

I don't think that's purely due to his role either, but speaks more to his strengths and weaknesses that have been the same since his early years in college.

And just because I don't think Jake is a future all star in hiding, doesn't mean I don't like him or haven't enjoyed his development this year. He's definitely been one of the highlights of the season.

It seems like just the last few games teams have started to have him in their gameplan (this is a good thing), but I also wonder if his production starts to take a hit, it might not!

Im super hesitant to predict where a players career is going on a small sample size. I love watching Layman, but the hard part for him will be showing he can continue to do it.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

His handles...lack of hesitation...athleticism...nose for the rim..shooting stroke....I'm talkin' pre injury Pistons Grant, not rehabbed Suns Grant...he's not the defender Grant was though

Im loving Jake but pre Injury Grant Hill is close to a HoF player. Not sure Jake is that, at least yet.

 

[TBpup]

The play at 2:56 is ridiculous. Blocks it with his right and and while still in the air, tries to save it inbounds with his left hand. He typically....dare I say, 'Glides' to the basic but there are time he very effectively quick jumps when needed.

That highlight couldn't have ended any better than when he completely enveloped Grayson Allen's drive. Maryland over Duke!

 

[riverman]

Im loving Jake but pre Injury Grant Hill is close to a HoF player. Not sure Jake is that, at least yet.

It will help when he actually plays a season....baby steps...it's the style of play I compare...not the end of a career status

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

It will help when he actually plays a season....baby steps...it's the style of play I compare...not the end of a career status

I dont really think their styles or talent levels are that similar, but who knows. Still love watching Jake play this year.

 

[jlprk]

Also, @riverman has been touting Jake for as long as I can remember. Just thought I'd recognize.

Big deal. Riverman touts everybody.

I have a much harder job. When a player sucks, does anyone praise me for being right? I am unappreciated.

 

[KingSpeed]

The secret is out about Layman. They talked about him on The Ringer NBA Show. The question is, if Brooklyn offers him a 4/70 contract, do we match?

 

[jlprk]

Thank you kind sir.

You're welcome.

 

[TBpup]

It seems like just the last few games teams have started to have him in their gameplan (this is a good thing), but I also wonder if his production starts to take a hit, it might not!

Im super hesitant to predict where a players career is going on a small sample size. I love watching Layman, but the hard part for him will be showing he can continue to do it.

I've already seen Layman affecting other team's defense. Several times, he has cut to the basket off a screen and both defenders have gone with him. Other times, he comes around a curl and both defenders go 'under' leaving him wide open for a pop out '3'. The more they pay attention to the lob, the more it opens him up for open outside shots. Then when they have to recover and run at him, he can go by. Multiple options...

 

[hoopsjock]

Im loving Jake but pre Injury Grant Hill is close to a HoF player. Not sure Jake is that, at least yet.

Grant Hill is in the HOF so there is nothing "close" about it. He was also like a Scottie Pippen-esque point forward which is nothing like what Layman is doing.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Grant Hill is in the HOF so there is nothing "close" about it. He was also like a Scottie Pippen-esque point forward which is nothing like what Layman is doing.

Yes, yes and yes. Im really enjoying Laymans play so I hope its not taken the wrong way, I just dont see the Grant Hill comp and He has a long ways to go to be on that level of player.

 

[riverman]

Grant Hill is in the HOF so there is nothing "close" about it. He was also like a Scottie Pippen-esque point forward which is nothing like what Layman is doing.

I think as I've mentioned it might be good to see an entire season of Jake before we define the end of his career....saying he has great form is not quite saying he's a HOF superstar...and it's really just my comparison...I'm not trying to convince anyone here folks...I'm purely talkin' style of play and it's just an opinion

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I've already seen Layman affecting other team's defense. Several times, he has cut to the basket off a screen and both defenders have gone with him. Other times, he comes around a curl and both defenders go 'under' leaving him wide open for a pop out '3'. The more they pay attention to the lob, the more it opens him up for open outside shots. Then when they have to recover and run at him, he can go by. Multiple options...

Exactly why I said its a good thing! The more people they have to game plan and adjust for the better! Keeps the defense honest too.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think as I've mentioned it might be good to see an entire season of Jake before we define the end of his career....saying he has great form is not quite saying he's a HOF superstar

I apologize if I mistook the idea you were trying to get across.

 

[hoopsjock]

I think as I've mentioned it might be good to see an entire season of Jake before we define the end of his career....saying he has great form is not quite saying he's a HOF superstar...and it's really just my comparison...I'm not trying to convince anyone here folks...I'm purely talkin' style of play and it's just an opinion

I just think Grant Hill was an elite ball handler and passer for his size pre-injury and initiated the offense. That doesn't seem like it's in the same ballpark of the style Jake plays.

 

[riverman]

I just think Grant Hill was an elite ball handler and passer for his size pre-injury and initiated the offense. That doesn't seem like it's in the same ballpark of the style Jake plays.

no problem...I stand by my opinion

 

[wizenheimer]

Im loving Jake but pre Injury Grant Hill is close to a HoF player. Not sure Jake is that, at least yet.

yep

in his 3rd season, when he was the same age as Layman, Hill averaged 21 pts, 9 rebs, 7 asts, & 2 stls while posting a PER of 25.5 and winshare/48 of .223. Not only was he in route to a HOF career, he was headed toward a Lebron like career....he was that good

I understand the habit of making comparisons but for somebody like Jake and his tiny sample size (in terms of career), the comparison should drop down the ladder quite a bit. Like Danny Granger or Jerome Kersey, and even then, those would be ceilings until Jake sustains this level of play for at least 120 games or more

 

[Binx]

From his Game #1 when Calabro was opining about his 'repeatable stroke', I've been hoping and waiting for what he is doing now. It was in garbage time, but there aren't a lot of players that can do what he did at any time so it was definitely a skill.

I’ll never forget that first time Jake stepped on the court in a Blazer uniform and started raining threes from everywhere. It was incredible. Then he disappeared for two years . . .

So glad he’s back now!

 

[RR7]

yep

in his 3rd season, when he was the same age as Layman, Hill averaged 21 pts, 9 rebs, 7 asts, & 2 stls while posting a PER of 25.5 and winshare/48 of .223. Not only was he in route to a HOF career, he was headed toward a Lebron like career....he was that good

Yeah, I didn't want to jump in a conversation late and derail slightly, but...This. Grant Hill was fucking incredible. Shame to have injuries rob his prime, basically. We got him early and late.