Explain Layman, please.

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riverman said:
Much appreciated! I took a ton of heckling for thinking Jake was actually going to be an NBA player.
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I will admit I thought Jake was just another bench sitter with flashes who became a fan favorite. I am still not thoroughly convinced he is the second coming of Bobby Gross but if his play continues as it has the last 10 games I will personally hook my F350 up to the bandwagon and tow it myself.
Good eye Riverman.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Nurk has more. And i like that more. That means him in the high post with jake slashing to the hoop. With our perimeter shooting this should be our first option as a go to. Pg dribbles across half court and finds nurk up high and then plays off the ball. Whether thru a pass, pnr or what. Get that man the ball and let him pass. i think he is the best passing center in the league now.
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Some big guy in Denver who is averaging more than twice as many assists as Nurkic (#5 in the entire league) might disagree with that.
 
[QUOTE="JDC, post: 4662683, member: 21257"]He's a great off ball finisher / advantage scorer. But very little of what he's doing inside the 3pt line is self created.

I don't think that's purely due to his role either, but speaks more to his strengths and weaknesses that have been the same since his early years in college.

And just because I don't think Jake is a future all star in hiding, doesn't mean I don't like him or haven't enjoyed his development this year. He's definitely been one of the highlights of the season.[/QUOTE]
To me these points are starting to sound extremely nit picked. Not only that but there are a number of times this season he has done very well creating a shot. Not just going to the rim but also breaking free to get a three point shot.
Just not sure i'm willing to disagree with you because they are so specific. Layman is not James Harden or Lebron James. This just seems like trying pretty hard to find holes in a guys game. Now lets understand that isn't a bad thing. If he wants to get better he needs to dissect his game and find the problem areas.
 
JDC said:
He's a great off ball finisher / advantage scorer. But very little of what he's doing inside the 3pt line is self created.

I don't think that's purely due to his role either, but speaks more to his strengths and weaknesses that have been the same since his early years in college.

And just because I don't think Jake is a future all star in hiding, doesn't mean I don't like him or haven't enjoyed his development this year. He's definitely been one of the highlights of the season.
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I agree, to me he's like a Bobby Gross or reggie Miller type that moves without the ball looking for opportunity. Neither of those two were great at creating off the dribble and/or dribble drives.
I actually like that flavor of round ball!

Plus he's 6'9" so its great to see a big move around and be athletic. Rather than campaign out to stretch.
 
Considering Layman was a 2nd round pick, I'd say he's playing very, very well, and trying to nitpick his game seems pointless to me. Let's be grateful he's scoring and playing Defense as he is.
 
TBpup said:
Some big guy in Denver who is averaging more than twice as many assists as Nurkic (#5 in the entire league) might disagree with that.
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Yeah i forgot about him. But then if the coach played to this, maybe Nurk would be right there in assists as well? no denying he is a gifted passer.
 
The weird thing about Layman is that he can have "normal" bench player nights scoring 6 or 8 points at 50% shooting or whatever, but then he has those nights where he scores like 12 or 16 points in 6/7 or 8/11 from the field...just insane efficiency.
I don't remember when i saw anything like that from a role player SF or SG.
 
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jake the ghost layman
I love it when you can see the looks on his opponents faces after he completes a lob. Makes them look really bad when there is a "nobody" swinging on the rim above you. Is he a defensive liability? TS must think so??
 
Cugel said:
jake the ghost layman
I love it when you can see the looks on his opponents faces after he completes a lob. Makes them look really bad when there is a "nobody" swinging on the rim above you. Is he a defensive liability? TS must think so??
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If you ask him to defend Curry then he will be exposed. But against other 6-9 players in the league he does just fine.
 
kjironman1 said:
Hill might be a better ball handler but there are an awful lot of these drives that look like Jake.
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In that video, Grant Hill shows a much bigger repertoire of moves than Layman has now. Maybe someday, but not now.

Hill was also the main playmaker on his team.
 
jlprk said:
In that video, Grant Hill shows a much bigger repertoire of moves than Layman has now. Maybe someday, but not now.

Hill was also the main playmaker on his team.
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Surround Hill with Lillard and CJ. Then bring Hill off the bench in his third year and you would see much of the same. Put Layman on a team as the first option and you might see more moves. But that is not the conversation now is it? The conversation is the type of player he is. Hill does match pretty well is all @riverman is saying.
 
kjironman1 said:
Surround Hill with Lillard and CJ. Then bring Hill off the bench in his third year and you would see much of the same. Put Layman on a team as the first option and you might see more moves. But that is not the conversation now is it? The conversation is the type of player he is. Hill does match pretty well is all @riverman is saying.
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No, Layman accidentally increasing his assists through osmosis is not the same as Hill being an alpha male point forward--dribbling the ball downcourt on most possessions, stopping, drawing the defense to him, looking over the entire court for a pass receiver, then drilling an amazing 90mph fastball from one corner of the half-court to another right through the arms of several defenders, to a shooter who got open because the defense had been attracted to Hill. Many, many possessions per game. Grant Hill did it all. Forgot to mention his rebounding and defense. Maybe someday Layman will be a superstar too, but as of now, there is no comparison.

Note: I'm describing Hill pre-injury, not post-injury. It's like describing Jabbar as a Buck, and fans who only saw him as a Laker say, Huh? He was good, but not great.
 
jlprk said:
No, Layman accidentally increasing his assists through osmosis is not the same as Hill being an alpha male point forward--dribbling the ball downcourt on most possessions, stopping, drawing the defense to him, looking over the entire court for a pass receiver, then drilling an amazing 90mph fastball from one corner of the half-court to another right through the arms of several defenders, to a shooter who got open because the defense had been attracted to Hill. Many, many possessions per game. Grant Hill did it all. Forgot to mention his rebounding and defense. Maybe someday Layman will be a superstar too, but as of now, there is no comparison.

Note: I'm describing Hill pre-injury, not post-injury. It's like describing Jabbar as a Buck, and fans who only saw him as a Laker say, Huh? He was good, but not great.
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Grant Hill....franchise player...number one option..third first round draft pick
Jake Layman...2nd round project...still pulling splinters from his butt....just started breaking a sweat...owned the Idaho Stampede when he was the go to guy
result.....Hill and Layman have similar body types, shooting form, off ball skills, good handles.....great motors....When Jake becomes the franchise player and number one option we'll have a better parameter for comparisons...would help if he could break a sweat for 82 games and play a full season
 
riverman said:
Grant Hill....franchise player...number one option..third first round draft pick
Jake Layman...2nd round project...still pulling splinters from his butt....just started breaking a sweat...owned the Idaho Stampede when he was the go to guy
result.....Hill and Layman have similar body types, shooting form, off ball skills, good handles.....great motors....When Jake becomes the franchise player and number one option we'll have a better parameter for comparisons...would help if he could break a sweat for 82 games and play a full season
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I'm a Jake fan, but he does not have good handles. Batum is more like prime Grant Hill than Layman is.
 
jlprk said:
No, Layman accidentally increasing his assists through osmosis is not the same as Hill being an alpha male point forward--dribbling the ball downcourt on most possessions, stopping, drawing the defense to him, looking over the entire court for a pass receiver, then drilling an amazing 90mph fastball from one corner of the half-court to another right through the arms of several defenders, to a shooter who got open because the defense had been attracted to Hill. Many, many possessions per game. Grant Hill did it all. Forgot to mention his rebounding and defense. Maybe someday Layman will be a superstar too, but as of now, there is no comparison.

Note: I'm describing Hill pre-injury, not post-injury. It's like describing Jabbar as a Buck, and fans who only saw him as a Laker say, Huh? He was good, but not great.
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You are talking about a franchise player on a team that was 28-54 by the end of the season. It's like you are not even listening to anything anyone is saying here? Of course Grant Hill had better moments. If Jake was on a team that was tanking he would look great also. Probably not as good as Grant Hill but all anyone said was "SIMILAR".
 
BonesJones said:
I'm a Jake fan, but he does not have good handles. Batum is more like prime Grant Hill than Layman is.
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Got to question Batum's handles also really but he was solid with his decision making. I did like that about Nic. He didn't try to do things he couldn't do. Jake goes for things a bit that maybe he shouldn't? Maybe that is the way i see it?
 
kjironman1 said:
Got to question Batum's handles also really but he was solid with his decision making. I did like that about Nic. He didn't try to do things he couldn't do. Jake goes for things a bit that maybe he shouldn't? Maybe that is the way i see it?
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Batum's handles are better than Layman and Batum's passing were far more on par with Hill's.

I'm just saying, if we're going to compare Hill and Layman, there's many players we could compare to Hill in the same light.
 
BonesJones said:
Batum's handles are better than Layman and Batum's passing were far more on par with Hill's.

I'm just saying, if we're going to compare Hill and Layman, there's many players we could compare to Hill in the same light.
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Another thing Nic brought was the solid inbound pass. I know it seems like a little thing but having a player that inbounds a ball well is very important. Not only that but they also had to guard him as soon as the ball was inbounded. This is why Turner is not the same. He is not a threat to catch and shoot quickly.
 
When Nico played his game he had a beautiful game to watch...he was graceful and had good timing and a very good defender...that was not Nico's issue though...guy had a superstar game and a role players drive....after he got his first big contract it showed and I always felt Nico at the end was not a gym rat, liked to spend time with the franchise he invested in in France and wants a front office job. People always said that's what Nico showed interest in more than anything...front office and management tools.I watch Layman play and I think of players with some similar trends in their skillset...sure...I've mentioned so many times that what we've seen from Jake so far is just a teaser...given rotation minutes and touches I think the guy could become a great player. He said himself that defense is the part of his game that needs the most attention and he's right
 
BonesJones said:
I'm just saying, if we're going to compare Hill and Layman, there's many players we could compare to Hill in the same light.
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That's the thing about comparisons...they are just impressions...I brought up this comparison because the more I watch him the more I think he's just waiting to explode given the opportunity. There are many players we can compare to every player in the league but no need to water it down...better to offer an alternative comparison ….your impression if you will...the Hill one was mine. It's fine to disagree with my take on it. I stand by it.
 
ripcityboy said:
Jake just started playing over 20 minutes regularly.... there's already a discussion about him and Grant Hill. That's why I love this board.
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That was me....off the cuff but purely a gut post...no stat machine or fine tooth comb. I really didn't expect it to become a "discussion"
 
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