Explain Layman, please.

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Not trying to derail the thread, but how is Nic doing in Charlotte? Stinking it up ... for $130mil they paying him. We dodged the bullet on him.
Other than that, Nic was solid when he played with us.
 
joeBlazers said:
Not trying to derail the thread, but how is Nic doing in Charlotte? Stinking it up ... for $130mil they paying him. We dodged the bullet on him.
Other than that, Nic was solid when he played with us.
Click to expand...
From everything Ive read Nic hasnt really changed, he’s incredibly inconsistent on both ends of the court, has games where he looks like Scottie Pippen and then has games where he looks like Martell Webster...
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
From everything Ive read Nic hasnt really changed, he’s incredibly inconsistent on both ends of the court, has games where he looks like Scottie Pippen and then has games where he looks like Martell Webster...
Click to expand...

He was after a big contract and he got it. Anything else was extra I guess.
 
He reminds me of a hyper-aggressive Mo Harkless. Same shooting ability, same size and athleticism, same length. Jake is just really greedy and decisive, while Mo kind of floats around in the game. Jake looks like he can be the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on a good team, while Mo looks more like a bench role player. Just a different mindset.

Mo found his place in the league as a 19 year old on a completely leaderless Orlando squad, while Layman is a 4 year college guy who has only ever known the NBA with Dame. Environment matters.

Watching those highlights of Jake what really stands out is how decisive he is. As soon as he gets the ball he's already got a plan of what he intends to do with it. It's surprising how he never gets called for a charge, because most guys who are that quick to react make some bad choices too. A guy like Meyers or Mo stands there and just plans on figuring it out once he gets the ball. Even CJ and Turner mostly improvise off the dribble.

Jake seems to have a plan for everything. He's very Rudy Fernandez in that way--he's one of those guys who always seems to have an idea. I think he's really taking off now because his teammates are seeing that side of him.
 
SIeepwalker said:
huh what ?
Click to expand...

Well, Mo was a 50%/41% shooter last year, so maybe I'm using some selective memory here. I'll admit he's been garbage this year, particularly from 3.

But my point still stands--Jake is the player we were hoping Mo would be. (He's also the player we were hoping Martel Webster and Travis Outlaw would be.)
 
BTW--from now on Olshey should only draft 3-4 year college guys. Dame, CJ, Pat, Crabbe, Jake....his rate of picking talent from that pool is shockingly good. Portland needs a late first round pick every year just for this purpose.
 
mook said:
BTW--from now on Olshey should only draft 3-4 year college guys. Dame, CJ, Pat, Crabbe, Jake....his rate of picking talent from that pool is shockingly good. Portland needs a late first round pick every year just for this purpose.
Click to expand...
I agree with this on every level. 4 year college players have all had the chance to grow and develop. Unless of course you have a chance at a top 3-5 generational talent?
 
mook said:
Well, Mo was a 50%/41% shooter last year, so maybe I'm using some selective memory here. I'll admit he's been garbage this year, particularly from 3.

But my point still stands--Jake is the player we were hoping Mo would be. (He's also the player we were hoping Martel Webster and Travis Outlaw would be.)
Click to expand...

I know this is probably not going to be liked because we live in a numbers obsessed world but despite 41% I never felt like Harkless was actually a good shooter. With these sample sizes the problem is, if he misses just 5 more shots he becomes 38% so just about decent, if he makes 5 more he suddenly becomes amazing at 44%.

He definitely improved his shooting since his early career but %s are so misleading. For example Gary Harris is barely 30% shooter this season but I'd prefer him to take a three for my team than Harkless 10 times out of 10.
 
Sarni said:
I know this is probably not going to be liked because we live in a numbers obsessed world but despite 41% I never felt like Harkless was actually a good shooter. With these sample sizes the problem is, if he misses just 5 more shots he becomes 38% so just about decent, if he makes 5 more he suddenly becomes amazing at 44%.

He definitely improved his shooting since his early career but %s are so misleading. For example Gary Harris is barely 30% shooter this season but I'd prefer him to take a three for my team than Harkless 10 times out of 10.
Click to expand...

You’re not off base here. The nba tracks shot attempts based on nearest defender and Moe doesn’t grade out well at all when there’s a defender within 2-4 feet. He shoots below 30% in those situations, and that’s using last years numbers when his overall percentage was above 40%. Aminu is the same way. There’s a reason why teams dare them to shoot. I don’t see Layman defended the same way.
 
42N8Bounce said:
Here's a look at how Jake Layman compares to the other top MIP candidates this year -

View attachment 24831

This chart primarily looks at scoring. Granted other criteria is considered, but points carries the most weight.

Jake Layman compares favorably. He by far has the biggest jump in Per36 pts, True Shooting Percentage, and PER. Zach LaVine is scoring the most points out of this group. Derrick Rose has the biggest year-over-year points change.

He won't win the MIP award, but it certainly is nice to even have this discussion.

View attachment 24832
Click to expand...
send this to the NBA and all of the media outlets who are not smart enough to read s2....
 
mook said:
He reminds me of a hyper-aggressive Mo Harkless. Same shooting ability, same size and athleticism, same length. Jake is just really greedy and decisive, while Mo kind of floats around in the game. Jake looks like he can be the 2nd or 3rd best scorer on a good team, while Mo looks more like a bench role player. Just a different mindset.

Mo found his place in the league as a 19 year old on a completely leaderless Orlando squad, while Layman is a 4 year college guy who has only ever known the NBA with Dame. Environment matters.

Watching those highlights of Jake what really stands out is how decisive he is. As soon as he gets the ball he's already got a plan of what he intends to do with it. It's surprising how he never gets called for a charge, because most guys who are that quick to react make some bad choices too. A guy like Meyers or Mo stands there and just plans on figuring it out once he gets the ball. Even CJ and Turner mostly improvise off the dribble.

Jake seems to have a plan for everything. He's very Rudy Fernandez in that way--he's one of those guys who always seems to have an idea. I think he's really taking off now because his teammates are seeing that side of him.
Click to expand...

Suddenly Mo Harkless looks like a hyper-aggressive Mo Harkless.
 
I do wonder if Jake's natural position is actually shooting guard. He got flat out abused last night in the post against guys who were shorter than him, which yeah is bad defense, but it's also kind of a consequence of his lanky frame. It just seems like he's more effective tracking smaller, faster guys with his length than he is guarding bigger guys who want to bang.

In many ways I can see him as an ideal SG to play off Dame. He doesn't dominate the ball at all like CJ can. He also can't create like CJ, but I think he can play a longer version of Klay Thompson on this team. (Jake is 2" taller, but they're both listed at the same weight and they have the same wingspan and standing reach at draft.)

If the opportunity presents itself for a significant ugrade for a similar level of talent to CJ at SF, I think Portland has to pull the trigger on it and see how Jake plays out as a shooting guard. After all these years it'd be nice to have a size advantage in the back court.

This is obviously off-season talk. I think Stotts is playing Jake exactly as he should right now. I had really thought Jake should get the starting job after the All Star break, but Mo has just been fantastic and I'll admit I was wrong.

I don't know if Mo feels Jake about to steal his job, or if he's finally healthy or what, but I love what he's bringing right now.
 
Last edited:
jlprk said:
Hood's on Mo's tail, too. So Harkless is copying Layman's aggressive dunks, but not Layman's long shots.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is the first time since, well, maybe Bonzi Wells that the starting SF job has real competition.

I think Nurk also feels the need to play aggressively knowing that Kanter can take a lot of his minutes if he doesn't bring it.

Evan Turner better be ready when he comes back, because Steph Curry is gunning for his minutes too.

Pressure makes diamonds.
 
mook said:
Evan Turner better be ready when he comes back, because Steph Curry is gunning for his minutes too. Pressure makes diamonds.
Click to expand...

I like Curry. His shooting gets distracted by being a playmaker. If Stotts told him to play 1-dimensionally like McCollum, Curry would be a great shooter.
 
mook said:
Evan Turner better be ready when he comes back, because Steph Curry is gunning for his minutes too.
Click to expand...
As much as I dislike Turner, Curry ain't gunning for shit. Maybe he's gunning for a rotation position in Europe or China, but that's about it.
 
Agreed. Curry better figure it out - or he’s not going to help. He is a small 2 and doesn’t handle the point well; he can’t penetrate. No handles.
 
Both pretty clueless. Curry is playing himself off this team. Not because he is playing bad either.
 
kjironman1 said:
Both pretty clueless. Curry is playing himself off this team. Not because he is playing bad either.
Click to expand...

This team is dying for a non-small player who is enough of a threat to score that you can't leave them, but can also defend and facilitate a bit.
 
Curry is a SG who can guard PGs. IMO we have three players who can play SG off the bench. (Besides the rookies)

ET (on D)
Curry (on O)
Hood ( O and D)

Plus you have CJ if Terry wants to go back to the "staggering" lineup. I am not sold on that. I would prefer a

ET, Curry, Hood, Jake, Kanter line-up
or
ET, Hood, Jake, Collins, Kanter line-up
 
mook said:
I do wonder if Jake's natural position is actually shooting guard. He got flat out abused last night in the post against guys who were shorter than him, which yeah is bad defense, but it's also kind of a consequence of his lanky frame. It just seems like he's more effective tracking smaller, faster guys with his length than he is guarding bigger guys who want to bang.

In many ways I can see him as an ideal SG to play off Dame. He doesn't dominate the ball at all like CJ can. He also can't create like CJ, but I think he can play a longer version of Klay Thompson on this team. (Jake is 2" taller, but they're both listed at the same weight and they have the same wingspan and standing reach at draft.)

If the opportunity presents itself for a significant ugrade for a similar level of talent to CJ at SF, I think Portland has to pull the trigger on it and see how Jake plays out as a shooting guard. After all these years it'd be nice to have a size advantage in the back court.

This is obviously off-season talk. I think Stotts is playing Jake exactly as he should right now. I had really thought Jake should get the starting job after the All Star break, but Mo has just been fantastic and I'll admit I was wrong.

I don't know if Mo feels Jake about to steal his job, or if he's finally healthy or what, but I love what he's bringing right now.
Click to expand...

my first reaction thinking about Layman at SG is "what about defense"?

then I remember Portland is in the 4th season with CJ as the starting SG and he's bad at defense just about all the time. Layman probably wouldn't be worse, and quite possibly be better

as for trading CJ....Olshey is the obstacle

but we can dream. I know he has a lot of detractors, a lot because of contract, but how about a lineup of

Dame
Layman
Harkless
Blake Griffin
Nurkic.....?

would the Pistons even consider a CJ for Griffin swap? probably not without a lot of incentive
 
wizenheimer said:
but we can dream. I know he has a lot of detractors, a lot because of contract, but how about a lineup of

Dame
Layman
Harkless
Blake Griffin
Nurkic.....?
Click to expand...
I was thinking about the same a couple hours ago. I had to stop because I'm at work and the response was inappropriate in public.
 
wizenheimer said:
my first reaction thinking about Layman at SG is "what about defense"?

then I remember Portland is in the 4th season with CJ as the starting SG and he's bad at defense just about all the time. Layman probably wouldn't be worse, and quite possibly be better

as for trading CJ....Olshey is the obstacle

but we can dream. I know he has a lot of detractors, a lot because of contract, but how about a lineup of

Dame
Layman
Harkless
Blake Griffin
Nurkic.....?

would the Pistons even consider a CJ for Griffin swap? probably not without a lot of incentive
Click to expand...
Yes please!
CJ + ET + 2019 pick => Griffin
 
I do want Griffin, but I think the only hope is Det decides to blow it up and trades him at the deadline to us for expirings/picks/and most likely Zach(which I’m not sure about). It would give us Dame/CJ/Griff for 1.5 seasons together and Blake’s contract only goes 1 year longer than CJ/Dame, and he would be expiring at age 33. My point is he would be very productive in his years here.

Dame/Draft Pick
CJ/Trent/Simons
Hark/Layman
Griffin/Chief
Nurk/Kanter

I know that ^ is pretty much impossible but that would be a serious contender imo.

I have Hood/Curry leaving in FA
And ET/Leonard/Zach/2 1s for Griffin
And draft a backup pg(if the rest of the above happened)
 
Last edited:
TBpup said:
This team is dying for a non-small player who is enough of a threat to score that you can't leave them, but can also defend and facilitate a bit.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are describing ET. He shoots 50% from 2 pt range, and can defend and facilitate........ "a bit".
Or did you mean "you can't leave him alone at the 3 pt line"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top