Fatal shooting of firing range instructor by 9 year old girl and an Uzi

[MadeFromDust]

They're a finite item because technically machine guns are illegal, but you can purchase one that was made before the ban took effect. A Thompson for example costs around 20k. Who has that kind of money laying around?


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You also need a Class III license, which not just anyone can get. I'm all for laws which keep people who can't handle firearms from getting them, but when you realize that the laws that are already in place will prevent most of this from happening if properly carried out (which doesn't always happen), then there is no need to formulate laws that punish the vast majority of Americans who are responsible with their guns.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I watch the news every day, and I also know that 90+ million gun owners did not harm anyone yesterday or have a single accident. Punishing the entire population for the actions of a minute fraction is ludicrous.

This just happened yesterday:

Klamath County sheriff's Deputy Jason Weber was shot and seriously wounded during a traffic stop in Klamath Falls Wednesday

 

[The_Lillard_King]

How many people have been killed because of a registered machine gun? I'm willing to bet that this guy is one of a very small number of people. Machine guns are expensive. They're expensive to buy and expensive to shoot. Plus the stamp takes a really long time. Machine guns are not a problem in this country.


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I would hate to know that number if they were legal.

I think this is a good example of gun control working

 

[oldguy]

I can't wait to see people on here justify a 9 year old being able to have a GOD DAMN Uzi in their hands! Just like the constitution intended right?


Sent from my baller ass iPhone 5S...... FAMS!

I haven't read the thread, but I'd bet money that nobody tries to justify putting a full auto weapon in the hands of a child. This isn't a constitutional issue, it's a stupid issue.

But feel free to continue to make up stupid shit about it.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Really, why does anyone need an Uzi in there hands?

To shoot back at people? For full auto competitions? For collections to go on your wall?

It takes a Federal Firearms License to own a MG, it's not like you can get one at Bi Mart.

How often do you hear of killings with a full auto rifle? Think that could be due to the fact that FFL owners are law abiding citizens?

It was stupid to hand that kind of gun to a child. It's a tragedy for the little girl, who has to live with this.

Go Blazers

 

[donkiez]

Guns are illegal in Chicago where there is more gun violence than any city in America. "Gun-Free Zones" are the places where the most gun violence occurs. In Switzerland 1 in 2 citizens own a firearm. Lowest crime rate in the world.

I'm curious how anti-gun advocates will react to these facts.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp

Switzerland issues firearms to adult men and provides training in their use.

 

[blue32]

I never said we didn't, I was responding to someone (blue32) who felt that limits were for China. And what the limits should be are always worth debating.



So you mean basically what I said here?

I implied being limited by your government is more Chinese (Chinese-like). Since you were saying we the American people needed to be limited. You didn't go into details, so I assume you meant harsh limits; I guess now you are backing down to make the argument suit your needs and attack my semantics. That's fine. But while I am mature enough to understand that everyone has to have minimal limits (like rules on regulating nukes, etc), being able to fire Uzi's at an official gun range with certified instructors should not be one of those limits/rules that government needs to step in on.


My whole point was that the fault mainly lies with the gun range for not having adequate steps in place to allow for users like this young girl to at least work her way up certain gun types to certify herself to shoot a Fully Auto gun.

Much like how you would need to take tests in order to get your license, and then certify to race on certain courses, etc.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I live by the motto: Let the consumer beware!

 

[Minstrel]

I implied being limited by your government is more Chinese (Chinese-like).

Indeed you did. Whereas being limited by your government is "every society"-like.

Gun control is not about "free people" vs. China. It's about society deciding where the line should be, collectively.

 

[magnifier661]

You and I actually have similar views regarding firearm laws. I don't wish to outlaw guns, but I do think background checks should be mandated for every sale. I also want it to be easier for loved ones or health professionals to get at least temporary holds on people's rights to own guns. So if a parent of a 25 year old goes to the cops afraid their child is about to do something deadly with their weapons, they should be able to get the guns removed until a psychologist says they are not a danger to themselves or society.

I'm also not sure about a couple issues, magazine capacity limits and being able to get fully auto with a tax stamp. I'm not for or against on these. I love having 15 rounds in my HK USP, but I also don't think it's necessary, and shooting an AR with 250 round drum seems a bridge too far.

I guess I'm still just mulling over all the individual issues under the gun control tent.

I'm fine with a 30 round clip!

 

[Further]

I'm fine with a 30 round clip!

Ya, I really don't know. I don't think it's one of the bigger issues. Much more important are background checks and requiring some decent level of gun locks/safes, ones non professionals can't easily remove (with asides for personal carry or bedside protection). Just basically some roadblocks to make it more difficulty for young people to get their hands on their parents weapons for murder or suicide. The smaller issues like magazine capacity aren't going to make much of a difference anyway.

 

[Denny Crane]

As someone who has worked with radioactive material, the government plays a very tight role, huge fines and possibly more dire repercussions for mishandling or not following rules with the material. And transferring from one lab to another for totally legit reasons means establishing and getting approved a new protocol.

That doesn't answer the question at all.

 

[Further]

That doesn't answer the question at all.

It's saying the government has so many protocols, laws, restrictions and the like that yes, it would be highly illegal for an American company to sell products or information pertaining to building nukes to Iran. I really don't know how you claim otherwise, unless I misunderstood you. And although there are companies from other nations that could sell components/expertise, most nations who have such companies have similar laws and are unwilling to cross America in this area, making de jour law even if it's not de facto everywhere.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's saying the government has so many protocols, laws, restrictions and the like that yes, it would be highly illegal for an American company to sell products or information pertaining to building nukes to Iran. I really don't know how you claim otherwise, unless I misunderstood you. And although there are companies from other nations that could sell components/expertise, most nations who have such companies have similar laws and are unwilling to cross America in this area, making de jour law even if it's not de facto everywhere.

Well, I think you make my point for me. It would be extraordinarily expensive for anyone to try and make a bomb so having one is moot. It is legal and constitutional. When the 2nd was written, they absolutely meant all forms of weapons, especially the biggest and baddest of the day possessed by the British military.

What's not legal is transporting the material, though nuclear material is all over the place (like X-Ray rooms at hospitals).

 

[SlyPokerDog]

its all about her evil parents

Who brought the 9yr old girl to the firing range?

The parents made a decision that will negatively affect the girl for the rest of her life.

 

[magnifier661]

Who brought the 9yr old girl to the firing range?

The parents made a decision that will negatively affect the girl for the rest of her life.

What about the parents that brought their children to Sandy Hook? Are they to blame for the kid that killed their kids?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What about the parents that brought their children to Sandy Hook? Are they to blame for the kid that killed their kids?

Obviously yes. I see no difference between an uzi on a shooting range and crayons in a school.

Honestly Mags, what the fuck are you talking about? How do those even compare?

 

[magnifier661]

Obviously yes. I see no difference between an uzi on a shooting range and crayons in a school.

Honestly Mags, what the fuck are you talking about? How do those even compare?

I'm talking about how fucking crazy it is to think the parents are responsible for killing that instructor. Or how fucking crazy it is to think that little girl murdered the man.

The parents went to a place that had zero incidents before this one. Where the legal range had a age requirement of 8 or above.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm talking about how fucking crazy it is to think the parents are responsible for killing that instructor. Or how fucking crazy it is to think that little girl murdered the man.

The parents went to a place that had zero incidents before this one. Where the legal range had a age requirement of 8 or above.

I never said the parents are responsible for killing the instructor. The parents needlessly put their daughter in a position to where she will be scared for life now.

It doesn't matter what the ranges record or rules are. They could say it's cool to let 2yr olds shoot bazookas but that doesn't mean you let your kid do it.

IMO the parents are complete dip shits for putting their daughter in that situation. Learning about guns is one thing, firing a fucking Uzi?!? Stupid.

 

[magnifier661]

I never said the parents are responsible for killing the instructor. The parents needlessly put their daughter in a position to where she will be scared for life now.

This is what you wrote

Wrong, this is on the parents. Doesn't matter if it was safe or legal. The parents brought her there and put her in that position for something to happen. Now because of them, their daughter is a murderer.

Seems you blamed the parents and called the girl a murderer

It doesn't matter what the ranges record or rules are. They could say it's cool to let 2yr olds shoot bazookas but that doesn't mean you let your kid do it.

IMO the parents are complete dip shits for putting their daughter in that situation. Learning about guns is one thing, firing a fucking Uzi?!? Stupid.

Well I for one think the range are the dipshits. The parents are silly to put trust in the range. The child definitely didn't murder the child

 

[RR7]

Obviously yes. I see no difference between an uzi on a shooting range and crayons in a school.

Honestly Mags, what the fuck are you talking about? How do those even compare?

shhh, mags like to extend threads to 20 pages by coming up with analogies that don't make a lick of sense.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This is what you wrote


Seems you blamed the parents and called the girl a murderer




Well I for one think the range are the dipshits. The parents are silly to put trust in the range. The child definitely didn't murder the child

Maybe murderer wasn't the correct label. Kids at that age do not have a complete concept of death. She is going to have a hard time understanding what she has done. They also don't understand legal definitions. By murder I meant how she is going process what has happened.

Sure, I don't agree with the rules of that range. So what? It doesn't matter what the rules are. Where is common sense and personal responsibility on the part of the parents? Just because someone says it's okay it doesn't mean you allow your kids to do it. That's the problem with people today, it's so easy to blame or sue someone else. "You didn't tell me I couldn't do it."

 

[magnifier661]

Maybe murderer wasn't the correct label. Kids at that age do not have a complete concept of death. She is going to have a hard time understanding what she has done. They also don't understand legal definitions. By murder I meant how she is going process what has happened.

Sure, I don't agree with the rules of that range. So what? It doesn't matter what the rules are. Where is common sense and personal responsibility on the part of the parents? Just because someone says it's okay it doesn't mean you allow your kids to do it. That's the problem with people today, it's so easy to blame or sue someone else. "You didn't tell me I couldn't do it."

All I'm saying is the range is 100% responsible for the incident. They are the fucking idiots! Wtf where they thinking?!?!

And I, as a parent, would never allow my 9 year old shoot a fully auto anything...

But I do let him do this...

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.omaha.com/news/la-vista-...a26-438d-55d0-a93e-7efa3575846b.html?mode=jqm

Shit happens.

I think you need to consider the rarity of this kind of event.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

All I'm saying is the range is 100% responsible for the incident. They are the fucking idiots! Wtf where they thinking?!?!

And I, as a parent, would never allow my 9 year old shoot a fully auto anything...

But I do let him do this...

View attachment 4092

You just made my point, thank you. What if the range said it's okay for your 8yr old to shoot a fully auto gun? The rules say it's okay. Why not let them do it?

Because it's stupid and you're not a stupid person.

Again, I'm not against kids learning about guns and gun safety.

 

[magnifier661]

You just made my point, thank you. What if the range said it's okay for your 8yr old to shoot a fully auto gun? The rules say it's okay. Why not let them do it?

Because it's stupid and you're not a stupid person.

Again, I'm not against kids learning about guns and gun safety.

Gonna be honest... What set me off is when you said she was a murderer

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Gonna be honest... What set me off is when you said she was a murderer

She's a manslaughter-er. And clearly a man-hater.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/firing-range-instructor-dies-after-child-accidentally-shoots

Perhaps the old adage, 'those who can't, teach' applies here.

Maybe this has been said, but I'd argue he's not a good teacher.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

How many parents turn their kids over to an instructor to teach them how to swim? Is that not a potentially dangerous activity?

There are a ton of potentially dangerous activities, but we rely on certified professionals to provide us with a safe environment to conduct these activities. I'm sure the parents thought this was going to be a perfectly safe environment. It's a range. It's most likely a certified instructor. I imagine they probably asked for the smallest caliber machine gun available, which would be something like the Uzi (9mm). Not everyone knows that an Uzi has ridiculous recoil. The range should have known better and the instructor should have done a better job. He was standing in a horrible position.

Is it a great idea to have a 9 year old shoot a machine gun? I guess that depends on the gun and the situation. I probably wouldn't do it, but that's not to say there isn't a safe scenario.

Personally I watch every swim lesson. I don't think you have kids so it might be hard to relate, but if my kid can't swim and they are in group lessons, I'm rarely taking my eye off my child. And this is at children of the sea, a reputable place to take swim lessons. There were at least a handful of times I was ready to jump into the pool while instructor's attention was diverted.

No one is going to care for the children as much as the parents and I don't have any problem with admitting I am overly protective with my kids. Teachers, coaches, instructors, other parents . . . I'm not going to get lazy and let my guard down. And I know many parents that share the same mentality.

A 9 yr old shooting an uzi . . . are you kidding me? And people think the 2nd amendment is being trampled on. Good old USA.

 

[Hobbesarable]

All I'm saying is the range is 100% responsible for the incident. They are the fucking idiots! Wtf where they thinking?!?!

And I, as a parent, would never allow my 9 year old shoot a fully auto anything...

But I do let him do this...

View attachment 4092

Yes, the range is to blame for allowing that happen as we as the parents for asking them (the range instructors) to show their daughter how to shoot the loaded uzi.

Such a terrible position to be put into by an idiotic group of supposed adults.