Federal appeals court deals blow to President Obama’s amnesty

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MARIS61 said:
When you figure the cost of living in Mexico is a tiny fraction of living in the US, so cheap that Americans retire there in large numbers, yes.
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I take it you've never been to Mexico.

Marginacion_mexico04.JPG
 
Denny Crane said:
There are 34,000+ jobs in Oregon listed on Indeed.com alone.

I see you're complaining about the brown skinned folks having jobs that the white skinned ones should take instead, right?
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Keep beating that faux-racist drum.

Those who can't support their viewpoint always seek to change the topic.
 
Denny Crane said:
I see you're complaining about the brown skinned folks having jobs that the white skinned ones should take instead, right?
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No. I think you missed Maris' point. If all the illegals in Oregon were not here, all the legal Oregon folks could have a job with a wage that meets the demand for labor. The stupid minimum wage
would not be in play as the need for labor would have reached equalibrium with wages.

Can you see how the cloud of wanting to see everything as racism skews the view and the markets?
 
MARIS61 said:
Keep beating that faux-racist drum.

Those who can't support their viewpoint always seek to change the topic.
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You're the one who posted "white people are unemployed, brown skinned are taking their jobs."

Or what were you insinuating?
 
MarAzul said:
No. I think you missed Maris' point. If all the illegals in Oregon were not here, all the legal Oregon folks could have a job with a wage that meets the demand for labor. The stupid minimum wage
would not be in play as the need for labor would have reached equalibrium with wages.

Can you see how the cloud of wanting to see everything as racism skews the view and the markets?
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No, they would still be unemployed. The "legal" folks aren't taking lots of open jobs as it is.

Immigration laws we've implemented are racist. You can't separate that fact from the conversation.
 
Anyhow, the thing that I think the court got wrong is that Obama does have discretion over which "illegal" immigrants he chooses to go after to deport or whatever. They clearly don't have an organization big enough or enough money to go chase down millions of people. So they do have to prioritize some to go after first: those who commit crimes here, for example.
 
I think you are blind, when employers can't fill a need they must raise wages to fill that need. The cheap immigrant labor (modern day slavery) is skewing the system.

It should be obvious, but I fear you want to look through a cloud and shout racism!
 
MarAzul said:
I think you are blind, when employers can't fill a need they must raise wages to fill that need. The cheap immigrant labor (modern day slavery) is skewing the system.

It should be obvious, but I fear you want to look through a cloud and shout racism!
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So are you in favor of raising the minimum wage? That might make those jobs pay enough for the "legal" Oregonians to accept the jobs.

Why would any employer pay minimum wage to an "illegal" if a "legal" worker would take the job?
 
Denny Crane said:
Why would any employer pay minimum wage to an "illegal" if a "legal" worker would take the job?
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They wouldn't if there were no illegals. Then they would need to pay a wage that would be acceptable to the available worker. The labor market and wages would no doubt reach
equilibrium without the minimum wage being a factor.
 
MarAzul said:
They wouldn't if there were no illegals. Then they would need to pay a wage that would be acceptable to the available worker. The labor market and wages would no doubt reach
equilibrium without the minimum wage being a factor.
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Why do "illegals" accept a lesser wage? They shouldn't now, should they.
 
Denny Crane said:
Why do "illegals" accept a lesser wage? They shouldn't now, should they.
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The phony wage set by the democrats as the minimum wage is higher than they can get in Mexico. Easy, you stated the median yourself. This immigrant labor is the current replacement of slavery
and the minimum wage is eases the conscience of those that condone the slavery. Allowing these slaves to come is screwing over your own workers by skewing the labor market to the extreme.
 
The jobs pay what the jobs pay. If "legal" residents don't want the jobs then the jobs would sit there open, like the 35,000 job listings in Oregon I mentioned earlier.

If the "illegal" workers are actually better at the job and are hired for that reason, then it's good for our businesses. That's a good thing.
 
Denny Crane said:
That's a good thing.
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Depends on your point of view. I you want to help all the illegal you can, then you are on the right track.
If you want to put all your own citizens to work and lower cost to the government of all the subsidies cost of supporting unemployed workers then you could hardly do a worst job.

If we were short on workers then perhaps there is a need for immigration but that is really not the case The minimum wage and allowing all this immigration is screwing the American worker and skewing the wage market. As it is, it seems like a communist central control in charge rather than free market labor reaching equilibrium. It is government not controlled by the Constitution but by feel good politics with a blind eye to reality.
 
MarAzul said:
Depends on your point of view. I you want to help all the illegal you can, then you are on the right track.
If you want to put all your own citizens to work and lower cost to the government of all the subsidies cost of supporting unemployed workers then you could hardly do a worst job.

If we were short on workers then perhaps there is a need for immigration but that is really not the case The minimum wage and allowing all this immigration is screwing the American worker and skewing the wage market. As it is, it seems like a communist central control in charge rather than free market labor reaching equilibrium. It is government not controlled by the Constitution but by feel good politics with a blind eye to reality.
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How about you get the "illegals" to pay tax so that tax money can help pay for the subsidies for the workers who won't take the jobs only illegals will?

That's the actual win.
 
Then this system is even skewed more because illegals can not collect unemployment benefits, so they must take minimum wage jobs available, where as the legal works is not forced into the same position. This allow the politicians to sing that old saw of the illegals only take jobs that American won't take. But that is only true because of the unemployment we pay to the unemployed.
Let the free market work without the presure of illegal immigration and the American worker would benefit greatly while leaving the politician out of the system. We all benefit then.
 
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MarAzul said:
Think.
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You think. Black market, they only pay sales tax AND they don't even make minimum wage. There's NOBODY to enforce the minimum wage on their behalf.

Legit they pay federal and state income tax and SS tax.
 
Denny Crane said:
We have lots of laws that are bullshit that aren't enforced. This one is no more important than those that aren't enforced.

If you ever drive 56 in a 55 MPH zone, you're breaking the law. The cops should pull everyone doing 56 over and ticket them, right? They're breaking the law!

(I don't think so)
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Check, you have given the standard "BUT BUT BUT SPEEDING" response typical of someone trying to deflect the seriousness of millions of people coming to this country illegally. They get in because they are close. Not because we are better off with 40 million of them as opposed to a number of people from all over the world.

We entice them here, don't get me wrong. I would probably do the same. But I would probably eat pizza for dinner every night if nobody stopped me.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Check, you have given the standard "BUT BUT BUT SPEEDING" response typical of someone trying to deflect the seriousness of millions of people coming to this country illegally. They get in because they are close. Not because we are better off with 40 million of them as opposed to a number of people from all over the world.

We entice them here, don't get me wrong. I would probably do the same. But I would probably eat pizza for dinner every night if nobody stopped me.
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Millions of people speed. Tens of thousands of traffic deaths.

Not anywhere near that kind of threat from people who want liberty and to provide for their families; to be part of a free country.

The population grows here over time. Unemployment is always between 4% and 8%, and has more to do with government meddling than number of people.

The pie isn't finite, plenty for everyone.
 
Denny Crane said:
The pie isn't finite, plenty for everyone.
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I am done discussing this with Denny. He ignores the obvious and wants to shout racist. Perhaps it makes him feel Christian.

Ha! If you take Denny's logic to the next step, we open the doors, invite the world here to the promised land. Not just 10 20 million, we go for 100s of million, compete with China for the most on earth. Man talk about screwing the lower end of our citizens out of the chance for a living wage, that would do it. Might feel good to Denny but don't fall for that shit.
 
Don't invite everyone, but don't deny most anyone. That's the concept of a "free country."
 
Denny Crane said:
Don't invite everyone, but don't deny most anyone. That's the concept of a "free country."
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Uh, no, that's not a free country.

That's a kegger. :cheers:

Now we know where you were when you cut your US History classes. :tsktsk:
 
MARIS61 said:
Uh, no, that's not a free country.

That's a kegger. :cheers:

Now we know where you were when you cut your US History classes. :tsktsk:
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You've already been busted for not knowing your history in this thread. So you come back at me with that to fail once again?
 
Denny Crane said:
I take it you've never been to Mexico.

Marginacion_mexico04.JPG
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Home is what you make it.

Some people love their countrymen and country, love the weather there, and enjoy a simple life. You should move there, as it's a totally free market.

BTW, this is a much nicer estate than that homeschooling family from Tennessee has in the other thread.
 
Denny Crane said:
You're the one who posted "white people are unemployed, brown skinned are taking their jobs."

Or what were you insinuating?
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I never posted anything like that.

Don't you realize people can actually read my posts and see you're lying.

Same with MarAzul's posts. He never said anything you're accusing him of, and you know it.

He accurately pointed out that illegal immigration is the main impediment to the US ever having a free market.
 
MARIS61 said:
I never posted anything like that.

Don't you realize people can actually read my posts and see you're lying.

Same with MarAzul's posts. He never said anything you're accusing him of, and you know it.

He accurately pointed out that illegal immigration is the main impediment to the US ever having a free market.
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I think people can see your posts and see for themselves, yes.

You just use code words to mask what you really mean, but it doesn't take much to break that code.
 
jlprk said:
Check out an article or two here.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=georgia immigration backfires&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=georgia immigration backfires&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=d5746c8440184805b47e610bdc9ff722
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" Farmers are having a hard time finding workers with the right skills to harvest their crops"

Bill Gates said the same thing before Congress maybe twenty years ago. Both Gates and the author of this story blame the wrong cause, or fail to add the salient qualifiier, like "at my price".
When employer must raise wages to get workers, the wage becomes fair for both parties.
 
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