FINALLY! Don't Ask Don't Tell is over!!

[Minstrel]

The problem is Minstrel, your definition of "official" and the military definition of "official" are two very different things.

I didn't give a definition of official. What I was saying is that there's no culture shock issue here...straight soldiers have known for years that they're showering with gay soldiers. There won't be a change for them psychologically.

Could there be opportunists who attempt to lodge lawsuits for press and/or cash? Maybe. I don't think it's going to be a real issue, though. There are attempts to profit from frivolous lawsuits in all walks of life...I don't see it happening enough or making enough of an impact to distract the military.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yep. Short-term disruption. Long-term, no big deal. Our military is too effective an organization.

Oh longterm I'm sure it will be fine. But right now I think it will open up a can of worms.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I feel if there are effects, they will be long term, systemic and non-measurable. Basically a "more humane" army, for better or worse.

 

[Natebishop3]

I didn't give a definition of official. What I was saying is that there's no culture shock issue here...straight soldiers have known for years that they're showering with gay soldiers. There won't be a change for them psychologically.

Could there be opportunists who attempt to lodge lawsuits for press and/or cash? Maybe. I don't think it's going to be a real issue, though. There are attempts to profit from frivolous lawsuits in all walks of life...I don't see it happening enough or making enough of an impact to distract the military.

A large amount of the men who comprise our armed forces are from the south. Do you think there will be hate crimes or discrimination against openly gay soldiers? Suspecting there are gay men serving with you is one thing, but knowing who they are is something entirely different. Why do you think so many athletes are afraid to come out of the closet while they are still in the NBA or NFL? They're afraid of being treated differently. Imagine that fear x10 because you're in combat and you don't want your brothers to think you're different while your life is on the line.

Members of the military have had decades to adjust to racial integration in the military. This will be year one for the integration of gays in the military. You don't think there will be bumps in the road?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Also, much of the "guy talk" and "guy stuff" will probably have to be subdued quite a bit, no? No more trips to the whore houses in Thailand? Will that be the new "don't ask, don't tell"?

 

[Natebishop3]

Also, much of the "guy talk" and "guy stuff" will probably have to be subdued quite a bit, no? No more trips to the whore houses in Thailand? Will that be the new "don't ask, don't tell"?

No more trips to the whore house in Thailand would be a good thing. I talked to a guy who was a Corpsman stationed on a ship overseas. He once had a sailor return from port with gonorrhea of the mouth. I'll let you figure out how he contracted it.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No more trips to the whore house in Thailand would be a good thing. I talked to a guy who was a Corpsman stationed on a ship overseas. He once had a sailor return from port with gonorrhea of the mouth. I'll let you figure out how he contracted it.

the bigger the headache, the better the pillin'.

but yeah. that kind of shit. the drunken revelry and fun of the army.

 

[Minstrel]

A large amount of the men who comprise our armed forces are from the south. Do you think there will be hate crimes or discrimination against openly gay soldiers? Suspecting there are gay men serving with you is one thing, but knowing who they are is something entirely different. Why do you think so many athletes are afraid to come out of the closet while they are still in the NBA or NFL? They're afraid of being treated differently. Imagine that fear x10 because you're in combat and you don't want your brothers to think you're different while your life is on the line.

I agree that many gay men and women won't choose to come out of the closet. The reasons for why that's the case are a shame, but it's their choice. If anything, though, that should ease the transition, no? In any case, I don't think there will be a lot of hate crimes...from what I've heard, military punishment is pretty bad. It may happen once in a while, as it does in civilian life, but I don't think it'll be a regular thing. I think it'll happen less in the military, due to the very unforgiving, disciplined environment.

Members of the military have had decades to adjust to racial integration in the military. This will be year one for the integration of gays in the military. You don't think there will be bumps in the road?

The difference there was that something new did happen...white soldiers suddenly had non-white soldiers around them. That is a culture shock. There was no "I know non-white soldiers are already all around me, but now it's official." It was none before, some after. That's a massive difference between the two, as far as I'm concerned. Straight soldiers already know they work and live with gay soldiers, whether that was official or not.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

...cue the sensitivity training in basic training in 3...2....1....

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree that many gay men and women won't choose to come out of the closet. The reasons for why that's the case are a shame, but it's their choice. If anything, though, that should ease the transition, no? In any case, I don't think there will be a lot of hate crimes...from what I've heard, military punishment is pretty bad. It may happen once in a while, as it does in civilian life, but I don't think it'll be a regular thing. I think it'll happen less in the military, due to the very unforgiving, disciplined environment.



The difference there was that something new did happen...white soldiers suddenly had non-white soldiers around them. That is a culture shock. There was no "I know non-white soldiers are already all around me, but now it's official." It was none before, some after. That's a massive difference between the two, as far as I'm concerned. Straight soldiers already know they work and live with gay soldiers, whether that was official or not.

I'm not going to continue to debate this because I think we've come to an impasse. It's either going to go smoothly or it won't. I have my fears, but I think there's always a chance that things will go seamlessly. Hopefully there's an easy transition and everything is fine.

 

[Natebishop3]

...cue the sensitivity training in basic training in 3...2....1....

Shiiit... all they need to do is add a new paragraph to the already existing sensitivity training.

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about my statement. Did I say that I personally want separate locker rooms? No. In fact, I went the opposite direction. I said there should be one locker room for men and women. I don't know why you, and others in this thread, have made this out as me personally saying that gays should be cast out into the cold.

I DID say that I think there will be members of the armed services who will be uncomfortable changing/showering with homosexuals. .

Nate. PLEASE catch up. Those member of the armed services have already BEEN changing and showing with homosexuals!!!! Gays have already BEEN in the military. Nothing is changing except for those soldiers no longer have to lie to keep their job. Read what 44Thrilla and Minstrel posted. I'm sorry, Nate. You've been one of the handful of posters who I've respected in here but you're way off base on this subject.

Person A is gay and serving in the military for the last 20 years but has had to not mention that he has a life partner of 16 years. He has been skirting around the issue to keep his job. Person B is straight & serving besides Person A for the last 20 years as well (and he's probably known the guy was gay all along by connecting the dots). Finally, with this new repeal, Person A no longer has to lie if the subject comes up. Suddenly, Person B has a right to a new locker room?? What the fuck? They've been working together for 20 years and Person A has always been gay. And as was said, men are still men, women are still women. Suddenly, because lies are no longer required doesn't mean we have to integrate the women and men's locker rooms as you suggested. That's ridiculous. If you honestly think there should be one big locker room for men and women in the military then you must support that notion EVERYWHERE because gays are EVERYWHERE and always have been. So you want all locker rooms at every gym, every office in the country to be suddenly unisex because DADT was repealed??? Or do you want to segregate gays at local gyms, etc? You seem to want to go one way or the other. Take a step back and listen to what you're saying.

 

[KingSpeed]

By the way.... About 10 years ago, I peeked into a recruiting center out of curiosity. I was immediately approached by an officer to come in. I said "no, I'm gay" and he said "you don't have to tell us that, come on in.". That was the position of the military. No problem with gay soldiers. Just don't mention it. What I've never understood is how they could prove someone is gay or not gay. It's impossible unless you've seen the guy regularly have sex with men. And even then, some men are gay but never have sex (just like some straight men never do.) How can you prove those men are gay to discriminate against them?

 

[MARIS61]

No shit Sherlock, someone in this thread thinks that straight men shouldn't be ALLOWED to bitch about having openly gay men shower with them.

I could give a fuck about gays in the military. Hell, if it were up to me we could start an entire gay military who's sole purpose is to round up illegal immigrants. Starting with the Norwegian one of course.

fixed.

 

[MARIS61]

Yeah. I got suckered into one of those high pressure sessions where they try to comimt you to signing up for bootcamp. Alot of those guys seemed like assholes who trick people to joining the army. I just wanted the free pair of socks they promised

x

Most recruiters are former car salesmen. They get paid pretty much the same way.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's about time!

As has been pointed out, gay and straight people have been sharing facilities all along without any real problems.

The real change is going to be in housing, where a gay soldier and his/her significant other should be allowed the same rights as any other soldier.

 

[Natebishop3]

Nate. PLEASE catch up. Those member of the armed services have already BEEN changing and showing with homosexuals!!!! Gays have already BEEN in the military. Nothing is changing except for those soldiers no longer have to lie to keep their job. Read what 44Thrilla and Minstrel posted. I'm sorry, Nate. You've been one of the handful of posters who I've respected in here but you're way off base on this subject.

Person A is gay and serving in the military for the last 20 years but has had to not mention that he has a life partner of 16 years. He has been skirting around the issue to keep his job. Person B is straight & serving besides Person A for the last 20 years as well (and he's probably known the guy was gay all along by connecting the dots). Finally, with this new repeal, Person A no longer has to lie if the subject comes up. Suddenly, Person B has a right to a new locker room?? What the fuck? They've been working together for 20 years and Person A has always been gay. And as was said, men are still men, women are still women. Suddenly, because lies are no longer required doesn't mean we have to integrate the women and men's locker rooms as you suggested. That's ridiculous. If you honestly think there should be one big locker room for men and women in the military then you must support that notion EVERYWHERE because gays are EVERYWHERE and always have been. So you want all locker rooms at every gym, every office in the country to be suddenly unisex because DADT was repealed??? Or do you want to segregate gays at local gyms, etc? You seem to want to go one way or the other. Take a step back and listen to what you're saying.

Eric.... seriously? How many times do I have to say this. I DON'T FUCKING CARE IF THERE ARE GAY MEN IN THE LOCKER ROOM! I'm merely pointing out that I think this issue could come up. Why is that so hard to understand? If we had just heard about a mosque being put near ground zero, and I said, "oh shit, I bet that's going to be a hotly contested subject, especially with the families of people who died on 9/11" would you automatically assume that I do not want a mosque on ground zero, or would you understand that I'm merely pointing out that there could be some people who do not want that mosque there?

I really don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. Where have I said that I personally do not think that gay men should not be allowed in the same locker rooms, bathrooms, showers, as straight men? Go back and show me that.

 

[maxiep]

The very best reason I've yet heard to allow gays to openly serve in the military:

Besides, it’ll give the terrorists yet another reason to hate us. The Gitmo detainees already go out of their minds when addressed directly by a female with her whole face showing. Just think how these 12th-Century dip$#!+s will react when they get their butts kicked by some gay dudes. It’ll just add to the humiliation.

http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/20/ask-tell-whatever/

 

[bodyman5001]

^^^^^^^^^

Has anyone ever heard of a gay rapist? IF they exist, maybe we should send some of them after the Taliban.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

^^^^^^^^^

Has anyone ever heard of a gay rapist? IF they exist, maybe we should send some of them after the Taliban.

My roommate in college, who was gay (he was in the closet still), was raped by another guy. pretty crazy shit.

 

[bodyman5001]

I have never heard about that kind of stuff. I would assume it happens, but I would almost bet the rapists think of themselves as straight. Wonder if there are any studies about it?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I have never heard about that kind of stuff. I would assume it happens, but I would almost bet the rapists think of themselves as straight. Wonder if there are any studies about it?

Yeah. I am pretty sure that was the case. Guy was a big dude too...he just kind of straggled into some big ass party we were having and was just there at like 3am in the living room by himself. kind of weird. we all throught he was a homie of another roomate and got ditched there (4 people in the apartment).

 

[bodyman5001]

Yuck.

 

[crandc]

Apparently, straight men and women join the military for all kinds of reasons. To serve their country, employment and job training, travel and adventure, family tradition, socially accpetable outlet for aggression, because the uniform is respected, etc. But gay men and lesbians join the military for the sole purpose of being able to look at straights in the showers.

Get over it, straight boys, you really are NOT that attractive!

You don't hear this much about women; even the most homophobic women know the threat of sexual assault does not come from other women.

DADT was the only law in the United States that required people to lie. A terrible law, bad for everyone, finally dead. RIP.

 

[Denny Crane]

Apparently, straight men and women join the military for all kinds of reasons. To serve their country, employment and job training, travel and adventure, family tradition, socially accpetable outlet for aggression, because the uniform is respected, etc. But gay men and lesbians join the military for the sole purpose of being able to look at straights in the showers.

Get over it, straight boys, you really are NOT that attractive!

You don't hear this much about women; even the most homophobic women know the threat of sexual assault does not come from other women.

DADT was the only law in the United States that required people to lie. A terrible law, bad for everyone, finally dead. RIP.

Completely right, except we're all attractive except for you know who.

 

[crandc]

Completely right, except we're all attractive except for you know who.

I don't know who, actually. Would I want to, Denny?

 

[44Thrilla]

It's not Denny. I know since I peeked while he was changing.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[Colonel Ronan]

I have been partying all weekend because of this.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Question One: aside from the manner in which they have sex, what constitutes being a homosexual?

Question Two: Why do men and women not shower together at LA Fitness or Gold's Gym or the Y?

Statement One: No one "forced" anyone to lie with DADT. The law of the US stated that homosexuals were prohibited from joining the military, but with DADT no one could ask you about it or pursue investigation of it, leaving a loophole for homosexuals to join if they wanted to. All they had to do was not be "caught" as homosexual. Any attempt to claim differently is wrong.