FIRE CRONIN

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blazerfan11 said:
Detroit is both saying they don't necessarily want to trade Grant and trying to increase his value by putting out ridiculous trade rumors.
The ball is in their court. They'll probably take the best offer they can get at the time of the draft.
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an inefficient scorer and upcoming free agent whose defensive impact is more theoretical than anything... his value can't be as high as they desire.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
If the rumor is true that the Blazers have offered the #7 for Grant and DETROIT is the side holding out for more.... That right there should be enough to fire him.

The only thing I'm not sure of is how much Burt/Jody/Vulcan are micromanaging Joe. Gosh we need new ownership ASAP
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Sure. Let's criticise Cronin based on an hoopshype rumour.
 
blazerfan11 said:
Don't you think that's more likely a rumor started by Detroit to pump up Grant's stock? Grant's trade value is going to slide if he's still with the Pistons at the start of next season.
Why would a team trade the #7 pick for a guy who will be an unrestricted free agent after next season?
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Sure that is possible this is all Detroit spin, which is why I said "if". But there is more to this than one random internet rumor.

First off Dame and Cronin rhetoric of trying to win soon.

Second, the posts here from posters with Blazers insider knowledge such as Mediocre Man that have implied something along theses lines might be true.

Finally, looking at the below expected market return Cronin got at the deadline, which doesn't give me confidence he is getting the value or exceeding the value the board consensus puts on the picks.
 
blazerfan11 said:
Detroit is both saying they don't necessarily want to trade Grant and trying to increase his value by putting out ridiculous trade rumors.
The ball is in their court. They'll probably take the best offer they can get at the time of the draft.
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Funny. Because just a short month ago folks in here were saying Detroit had to move Grant and had no leverage so we would get him for peanuts :biglaugh:
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Sure that is possible this is all Detroit spin, which is why I said "if". But there is more to this than one random internet rumor.

First off Dame and Cronin rhetoric of trying to win soon.

Second, the posts here from posters with Blazers insider knowledge such as Mediocre Man that have implied something along theses lines might be true.

Finally, looking at the below expected market return Cronin got at the deadline, which doesn't give me confidence he is getting the value or exceeding the value the board consensus puts on the picks.
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I bet you are already farting from a meal you haven't even ate yet.
You seem like that kinda guy.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
If the rumor is true that the Blazers have offered the #7 for Grant and DETROIT is the side holding out for more.... That right there should be enough to fire him.

The only thing I'm not sure of is how much Burt/Jody/Vulcan are micromanaging Joe. Gosh we need new ownership ASAP
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This should get the Detroit GM fired if anything. Not jumping at #7 for Grant would be so bad on their part.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
There were certainly a few arguing that they had to get rid of him.
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The problem for Detroit is that Grant will be a free agent after next season. Why would a team give up many assets for a guy who could jump ship after one season? Especially after he did just that when he left Denver.
Edit: there is no reason Detroit "has to get rid of him."
 
blazerfan11 said:
The problem for Detroit is that Grant will be a free agent after next season. Why would a team give up many assets for a guy who could jump ship after one season? Especially after he did just that when he left Denver.
Edit: there is no reason Detroit "has to get rid of him."
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Right, but that's why teams shouldn't give up a ton for Grant either. He could leave after 1 year for nothing. Maybe Detroit decides to keep him and decide to resign him because they only get offered something like #36 and Keon Johnson. It is obvious they value him more than prople think they do.
 
blazerfan11 said:
The problem for Detroit is that Grant will be a free agent after next season. Why would a team give up many assets for a guy who could jump ship after one season? Especially after he did just that when he left Denver.
Edit: there is no reason Detroit "has to get rid of him."
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Lakers gave up a hell of a lot for Anthony Davis on the same on year timeline. Obviously Grant is tier down from that. But teams routinely trade very useful assets all the time for starters on the last year of their contract.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Hold onto your shorts! Cronin is gonna pull a rabbit out of his ass this offseason. Just wait!
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He doesn't need to pull a rabbit out of his ass.

He's justified in starting next season with the team that needed to be amputated so they wouldn't win games, plus Damian Lillard, plus Nassir Little, plus the 7th pick in the draft.
I hope that is how it goes.
Either that, or he does pull a rabbit out of his ass.
 
blazerfan11 said:
He doesn't need to pull a rabbit out of his ass.

He's justified in starting next season with the team that needed to be amputated so they wouldn't win games, plus Damian Lillard, plus Nassir Little, plus the 7th pick in the draft.
I hope that is how it goes.
Either that, or he does pull a rabbit out of his ass.
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If the season starts with us just drafting someone at #7 and no other moves are made, i'm fine with that but we would be wasting Dame's prime again. At that point if we suck at the trade deadline explore all options.

Some folks around here say just wait for Cronin to do his plan! Hold onto your shorts. He is gonna wow us!
 
blazerfan11 said:
Grant isn't a tier down, he's in a different universe.
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2019 the Suns gave up the no 6 pick for an expiring contract of Dario Saric and No 11.

Do the Blazers value Grant higher than the Suns valued Saric? With Dame rhetoric of team USA and Cronin's comments to win, sadly they just might.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
If the season starts with us just drafting someone at #7 and no other moves are made, i'm fine with that but we would be wasting Dame's prime again. At that point if we suck at the trade deadline explore all options.

Some folks around here say just wait for Cronin to do his plan! Hold onto your shorts. He is gonna wow us!
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I'd he happy with a boring off season of drafting BPA, using the MLE on an average backup free agent, using trade exception for mediocre expiring player, resign Ant/Nurk for contracts that don't grossly overpay them.

Let the Blazers just keep their assets, picks, and future; hoping we get to new ownership ASAP.

I don't need Cronin to "wow" me any more, he unfortunately did that at the trade deadline.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
If the season starts with us just drafting someone at #7 and no other moves are made, i'm fine with that but we would be wasting Dame's prime again. At that point if we suck at the trade deadline explore all options.

Some folks around here say just wait for Cronin to do his plan! Hold onto your shorts. He is gonna wow us!
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Only Dame can waste his "prime." If he really is that good next season, he'll elevate the team and they'll be very good. It's a motivated group that wants to and can win now if Dame has a career year.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
2019 the Suns gave up the no 6 pick for an expiring contract of Dario Saric and No 11.

Do the Blazers value Grant higher than the Suns valued Saric? With Dame rhetoric of team USA and Cronin's comments to win, sadly they just might.
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Were the 2019 Suns in a similar cap and roster situation as the Blazers? Was the expected talent at #6 in 2019 similar to #7 in 2022? Hard to compare values like that.
 
Tince said:
Were the 2019 Suns in a similar cap and roster situation as the Blazers? Was the expected talent at #6 in 2019 similar to #7 in 2022? Hard to compare values like that.
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By that logic its hard to compare anything with anything. Every team has different dynamics, cap, roster, every draft has different talent, and every player has different attributes.
 
blazerfan11 said:
Only Dame can waste his "prime." If he really is that good next season, he'll elevate the team and they'll be very good. It's a motivated group that wants to and can win now if Dame has a career year.
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No they can't. I don't care how good of a year Dame has, he can't do it alone. If we just use the #7 pick on someone, even if they make the all rookie team, we can not compete with a team like the Warriors. Not even a little bit.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
By that logic its hard to compare anything with anything. Every team has different dynamics, cap, roster, every draft has different talent, and every player has different attributes.
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To some degree, yes. You use expected value for the #7 pick (there have been posts that provide that) and mix it with tiers and concenus draft strength. You can find trades made by teams who were in a favorable salary position, with minimal roster talent, but a HOF player in win-now mode.

Comparing a move OKC makes on draft night with a move, say Boston/Golden State makes, probably wouldn't be appropriate given they have much different timelines, salary situation, etc. I don't see how Portland' situation today is close to Phoenix's in 2019.
 
Tince said:
To some degree, yes. You use expected value for the #7 pick (there have been posts that provide that) and mix it with tiers and concenus draft strength. You can find trades made by teams who were in a favorable salary position, with minimal roster talent, but a HOF player in win-now mode.

Comparing a move OKC makes on draft night with a move, say Boston/Golden State makes, probably wouldn't be appropriate given they have much different timelines, salary situation, etc. I don't see how Portland' situation today is close to Phoenix's in 2019.
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Saric is the most recent player traded for a top10 pick, and was also on an expiring contract.

Now I agree the comparison isn't perfect. I was only saying Saric had value on an expiring contract, to argue the notion Grant has little value since he's expiring.

Can you please give an example more similar to Portland that meets your criteria?
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Saric is the most recent player traded for a top10 pick, and was also on an expiring contract.
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You're also leaving out a significant part of that trade. Suns also got back the #11 pick (Cam Johnson) in that trade.
Saric + 11 <-> #6

I'd also argue that the #11 pick (Johnson) is the most valuable piece of that entire trade.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
You're also leaving out a significant part of that trade. Suns also got back the #11 pick (Cam Johnson) in that trade.
Saric + 11 <-> #6

I'd also argue that the #11 pick (Johnson) is the most valuable piece of that entire trade.
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Saric also had a bit of hype around him at the time as well. Young prospect with untapped potential with the #11 pick.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
You're also leaving out a significant part of that trade. Suns also got back the #11 pick (Cam Johnson) in that trade.
Saric + 11 <-> #6

I'd also argue that the #11 pick (Johnson) is the most valuable piece of that entire trade.
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Well it was left out of this reply but it was in the original post I made.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Saric is the most recent player traded for a top10 pick, and was also on an expiring contract.

Now I agree the comparison isn't perfect. I was only saying Saric had value on an expiring contract, to argue the notion Grant has little value since he's expiring.

Can you please give an example more similar to Portland that meets your criteria?
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I don't think there is a great comparison, which is why I was opposed to making one in the first place. In my brain I'd look at these sites and see what type of value you should expect to get with the 7th pick and weigh that, what appears to be the desire to win now, and likely taking on additional salary to get a vet to do my best to gauge what a good deal for Portland is.

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

If The Ringer's article is true and the mean player teams have got from the 7th pick is Corey Brewer/Randy Foye, I think I'll likely be real happy with whatever trade we make Thursday. I'm not a huge John Collins guy, but I think I'd do jumping jacks to trade Randy Foye's career for John Collins and the 16th pick.
 
Tince said:
I don't think there is a great comparison, which is why I was opposed to making one in the first place. In my brain I'd look at these sites and see what type of value you should expect to get with the 7th pick and weigh that, what appears to be the desire to win now, and likely taking on additional salary to get a vet to do my best to gauge what a good deal for Portland is.

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

If The Ringer's article is true and the mean player teams have got from the 7th pick is Corey Brewer/Randy Foye, I think I'll likely be real happy with whatever trade we make Thursday. I'm not a huge John Collins guy, but I think I'd do jumping jacks to trade Randy Foye's career for John Collins and the 16th pick.
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The problem I have with looking at it this way is the risk of a deviation from the average.

Often risk is bad. In the Blazers case a variance with risk of more or less than a Corey Brewer career is very good! The Blazers need to either get an all star or get a scrub. They don't want a mediocre player like Corey Brewer. The draft is one of the riskiest player acquisition routes.

Now if the Blazers we're already close to contending having risk might be bad, you might prefer the certainly of an average vet to give a cost controlled contribution of a solid bench player.

But the Blazers need a star level player to contend with Lillard. Yes most likely they won't get that with the 7th pick. But drafting BPA with the 7th pick is the highest chance they do have to get that star type player.

Trading it for the mediocre vets you mention, while clearly better than Brewer, doesn't get the Blazers closer to the star needed to contend.
 
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