Zombie Fire Olshey (2 Viewers)

[TBpup]

FWIW, Kerry Eggers on 1080 right now, suggesting that Olshey isn't going to be around much longer, owing to the ideas that he's not really a Portland guy and that this is essentially his second failed rebuild in a 5-year span.

I mentioned this a while ago. Neil is not a Portland guy, doesn't like it here.....and a lot of people that work around the team have very little good to say about him. It often starts with "Prima Donna" and goes downhill from there.

 

[Strenuus]

FWIW, Kerry Eggers on 1080 right now, suggesting that Olshey isn't going to be around much longer, owing to the ideas that he's not really a Portland guy and that this is essentially his second failed rebuild in a 5-year span.

Good.

 

[Strenuus]

I mentioned this a while ago. Neil is not a Portland guy, doesn't like it here.....and a lot of people that work around the team have very little good to say about him. It often starts with "Prima Donna" and goes downhill from there.

Yep.

 

[oldfisherman]

As long as we are packing Olshey's bags, and sending him back to CA. Lets pack up Clownzano, McGowan & HCP as well, and send them all back home to CA. None of them get the Blazer's culture, and have proven it many times over.

 

[Minstrel]

We need a GM who keeps it weird.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I want a GM I never hear from, rarely see, and only marvel at how all he does is fly around the country and the world scouting players 365 days a year.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I want a GM I never hear from, rarely see, and only marvel at how all he does is fly around the country and the world scouting players 365 days a year.

If there was just 1 single GM I would agree. There are Assistant GM's and Scouts who are more what you are asking for.

 

[riverman]

Trader Bob fans all seem down on Olshey....I like the guy...now I hear he's not well liked or doesn't like Portland? I don't look back on the Larry Miller Chad Buchannan era that fondly myself

 

[Nikolokolus]

If there was just 1 single GM I would agree. There are Assistant GM's and Scouts who are more what you are asking for.

You really didn't get what I was driving at I suppose.

 

[Minstrel]

You really didn't get what I was driving at I suppose.

You want a GM efficient at turning team business into tax-deductible frequent flier mileage, because efficiency is an important trait in GMs. Don't worry, I got it.

 

[santeesioux]

This forum should just be the GM, we could vote on whether to do deals or not.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You want a GM efficient at turning team business into tax-deductible frequent flier mileage, because efficiency is an important trait in GMs. Don't worry, I got it.

See. You get it.

 

[Blazers Roy]

 

[Nikolokolus]

View attachment 12136

I wanted to "like" this, but it made me too depressed.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I wanted to "like" this, but it made me too depressed.

I liked it, for the lol of it.

 

[jlprk]

Ref the Afflalo trade...Oh, to make this trade worse, Olshey stuffed a first round pick into the panties of Denver's GM, which still leaves Olshey's fingers all stinky.

The pick we gave up turned out to be #19 Malik Beasley, who is looking like a decent prospect in his rookie year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beaslma01.html

Trader Bob fans all seem down on Olshey....I like the guy...now I hear he's not well liked or doesn't like Portland? I don't look back on the Larry Miller Chad Buchannan era that fondly myself

Olshey is much better than them. I'm not really down on Olshey, other than 1) he thinks like the Clippers did for 20 years, ignoring defense while gathering scrub assets for a Golden Future, and 2) if Bob Whitsitt says the word, we should grab him like they did Calabro.

 

[Denny Crane]

The pick we gave up turned out to be #19 Malik Beasley, who is looking like a decent prospect in his rookie year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beaslma01.html

How are his knees?

 

[Sinobas]

I think we can add Chandler Parson's to Neil's list of "dodged bullets". Almost all his FA targets that have snubbed/or been matched, have gone on to be buyer's regret signings. Hawes, Hibbert, Monroe, now Parsons (not to mention the guys he did sign not living up to their contracts).

 

[Orion Bailey]

Two of these players aren't like the others:
View attachment 12072

Powell & Leuer contribute significantly more than Meyers does

And two of the players had significantly more minutes played. Unfair analysis.

Out of curiosity, Denny, since I've been out of the loop and all, when did you become a Portland fan? And why?

Did you decide that since it was the biggest S2 community, the market had decided?

Is there really any other place to be?

 

[tester551]

And two of the players had significantly more minutes played. Unfair analysis.

Not really. Better players = more playing time.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Ref the Afflalo trade.
Barton developed into the best player in that deal. But, he never really got the chance to develop in Portland. Sound familiar?
Oh, to make this trade worse, Olshey stuffed a first round pick into the panties of Denver's GM, which still leaves Olshey's fingers all stinky.

If we had not traded for Afflalo, and after Wes got hurt, both Barton and CJ would have got more mpg and developed faster.

Plus, If Olshey had faith that CJ could be a good starter as you suggest in your post. Olshey would not have traded for Afflalo. CJ was playing just OK that season, but there were a lot of questions about his game. CJ needed more mpg to develop. Sound familiar?

Aflallo was a seasoned veteran added to a veteran team. No way you want to take the risk with an unproven player.

Yes, they traded some future for win now, but win now is awesome and win someday isn't so much.

Afflalo is much bigger than CJ, and could sub for Wes or Batum.

CJ didn't blossom until a couple years later. He hadn't even been healthy for a full season.

I cant believe this argument is still going on.


Please follow along, I will type slowly.

We were in win now mode. Meaning going for it all.
Wes went down. We had no one who could immediately step into his shoes and contribute without requiring further development. Whether that means more minutes is irrelevant, because AT THE TIME Wes went down, we did not have the luxury of possibly losing games through development.
If Wes had gone down early in the season, certainly you give minutes to internal players. But THERE WAS NO TIME TO DEVELOP IF YOU WANTED TO WIN IT ALL THAT YEAR.
So we trade for a player who was thought to be able to come in and contribute immediately. People say he didn't contribute. Do those people recognize he injured his shoulder? Can we say whether he would have been able to contribute consistently if he was 100% healthy?
NO we cant.
So for those saying it was a bad trade, you are basing it off of things you do not know and can not prove.

YES, hindsight shows it was not a trade that helped the team, but again. AT THE TIME, it was the right move to try to continue our momentum and going for it all. Does anyone really think Afflalo was brought in to be here long term?
No.
He was a stop gap so we can keep on trucking through the playoffs.

Will was an out of control player with some serious potential, but wasn't showing signs of reigning in his game. We still had CJ, a much better prospect waiting on the bench, so ONE of them wasn't going to develop with minutes here anyhow.
Does The Thrill have more value now that he has developed?
Yes. Two years later.
Does CJ have more value now that he has developed?
YES and its FAR better than Wills.
Could EITHER of them have developed in the 20 or so games we had left before the playoffs? Yes, CJ did, but Will?
I highly doubt it.
He is still not the best player on a crappy team and still makes a ton of boneheaded decisions.

So for those of you who want to bitch and complain the trade was bad, please produce an alternative scenario that could have played out that doesn't involve some delusional idea that Will would have been just fine stepping up AT THAT TIME and providing a consistent contribution to help our push in going for it all?
Short of trading LMA and blowing it up, which some say should have happened, there wasn't much to do, but if you wanted to make a push, we needed to have one more vet contribute and so we went and got one. And again, HE also go injured.
Don't forget. He got injured and tried playing through it because he know what he was here for. I give him respect for that while some people shit on him and say he sucked.

YOU ever play a sport injured and try to play at an optimal level?

This trade from two years ago seriously needs to be put to rest. It was the decision made and those who didn't like it or don't like it now, are only using hindsight vision and short term memory to come to their conclusions.

There is a broader picture than just the here and now people.


Just sayin...

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I cant believe this argument is still going on.


Please follow along, I will type slowly.

We were in win now mode. Meaning going for it all.
Wes went down. We had no one who could immediately step into his shoes and contribute without requiring further development. Whether that means more minutes is irrelevant, because AT THE TIME Wes went down, we did not have the luxury of possibly losing games through development.
If Wes had gone down early in the season, certainly you give minutes to internal players. But THERE WAS NO TIME TO DEVELOP IF YOU WANTED TO WIN IT ALL THAT YEAR.
So we trade for a player who was thought to be able to come in and contribute immediately. People say he didn't contribute. Do those people recognize he injured his shoulder? Can we say whether he would have been able to contribute consistently if he was 100% healthy?
NO we cant.
So for those saying it was a bad trade, you are basing it off of things you do not know and can not prove.

YES, hindsight shows it was not a trade that helped the team, but again. AT THE TIME, it was the right move to try to continue our momentum and going for it all. Does anyone really think Afflalo was brought in to be here long term?
No.
He was a stop gap so we can keep on trucking through the playoffs.

Will was an out of control player with some serious potential, but wasn't showing signs of reigning in his game. We still had CJ, a much better prospect waiting on the bench, so ONE of them wasn't going to develop with minutes here anyhow.
Does The Thrill have more value now that he has developed?
Yes. Two years later.
Does CJ have more value now that he has developed?
YES and its FAR better than Wills.
Could EITHER of them have developed in the 20 or so games we had left before the playoffs? Yes, CJ did, but Will?
I highly doubt it.
He is still not the best player on a crappy team and still makes a ton of boneheaded decisions.

So for those of you who want to bitch and complain the trade was bad, please produce an alternative scenario that could have played out that doesn't involve some delusional idea that Will would have been just fine stepping up AT THAT TIME and providing a consistent contribution to help our push in going for it all?
Short of trading LMA and blowing it up, which some say should have happened, there wasn't much to do, but if you wanted to make a push, we needed to have one more vet contribute and so we went and got one. And again, HE also go injured.
Don't forget. He got injured and tried playing through it because he know what he was here for. I give him respect for that while some people shit on him and say he sucked.

YOU ever play a sport injured and try to play at an optimal level?

This trade from two years ago seriously needs to be put to rest. It was the decision made and those who didn't like it or don't like it now, are only using hindsight vision and short term memory to come to their conclusions.

There is a broader picture than just the here and now people.


Just sayin...

I think some folks (myself among them) wondered WTF would anyone (especially us) go after Afflalo? As was pointed out, he had one good year, his contract year. The guy just wasn't very good to begin with. IIRC, Wilson Chandler was also in the conversation. I get that he was a SF while we were looking for a guard, but Chandler would have been the far better deal and would have probably helped us more. We should have held out for Chandler. But then, it's all past history now.....

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not really. Better players = more playing time.

I dont know those players, so you may be right in their instance, but I disagree with the principle. more time on the court doesn't always equate to them being better. and there are many cases in point that I think are obvious enough that I don't need to look them up and point them out?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think some folks (myself among them) wondered WTF would anyone (especially us) go after Afflalo? As was pointed out, he had one good year, his contract year. The guy just wasn't very good to begin with. IIRC, Wilson Chandler was also in the conversation. I get that he was a SF while we were looking for a guard, but Chandler would have been the far better deal and would have probably helped us more. We should have held out for Chandler. But then, it's all past history now.....

And Look at Chandler now? For how much more?

I think you are over valuing Wills trade value at the time we traded him. We would have had to give up alot more than what we did for Parsons and it would have stung even worse. DO I need to link the Blazers twitter feed?

So I am sorry, but using hindsight, Chandler would have been a much WORSE decision.

 

[TBpup]

CJ was the answer. It's difficult form me to believe CJ wasn't good and then all of a sudden became the MIP the next season. Stotts just wouldn't play him. Same with Barton. Barton immediately became a 6MoY candidate.

Either that or those two had the best summer workout/improvement programs of all time in the history of the NBA. ~Bill Walton.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

And Look at Chandler now? For how much more?

I think you are over valuing Wills trade value at the time we traded him. We would have had to give up alot more than what we did for Parsons and it would have stung even worse. DO I need to link the Blazers twitter feed?

So I am sorry, but using hindsight, Chandler would have been a much WORSE decision.

He means Wilson Chandler.

 

[Orion Bailey]

He means Wilson Chandler.

Ahhh, my bad. Okay. Well he was even more valuable at the time than Parsons, so you really think we coulve have got him for what we paid for Afflalo? If not how much more of that team or draft picks would you have considered?
Second, do you think he would have been the key to push us through to the WFC? If not, then again, irrelevant and would have been a worse decision. we would have given up more and still not won.
I can go on all day with the hindsight vision and play devils advocate. lol.

Just way too many X factors for anyone to say its a bad trade in my opinion.

 

[tester551]

Ahhh, my bad. Okay. Well he was even more valuable at the time than Parsons, so you really think we coulve have got him for what we paid for Afflalo? If not how much more of that team or draft picks would you have considered?
Second, do you think he would have been the key to push us through to the WFC? If not, then again, irrelevant and would have been a worse decision. we would have given up more and still not won.
I can go on all day with the hindsight vision and play devils advocate. lol.

Just way too many X factors for anyone to say its a bad trade in my opinion.

It was a questionable trade at best when it was made.

The same probing question should have been asked about Afflalo.

Do you honestly think he would have been the missing piece to push us to the WCF? I didn't at the time and thought it was a poor trade (much like many of the other people who gripe about it). Affalo isn't a difference maker, and trading for him would have only had a negligible effect in the best case.

Again, if he isn't going to push our team to the WCF (which he wasn't going to), then it was a poor trade AT THE TIME & definitely with hindsight. That team wasn't contender material.

Having said all that, I understand the reasoning (even if I don't agree with it). Unfortunately, NO has made several other very poor choices that will soon overshadow that Affalo trade.

 

[Denny Crane]

SI gave the trade a B+ grade, at the time.

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/02/19/arron-afflalo-trade-blazers-nuggets-grades

The Afflalo deal is a sensible play given all of that context. The trade essentially gives Stotts another Matthews, a well-built two guard who doesn't need the ball to be helpful on offense, who can put up good shooting numbers in the right system, and who developed a reputation as a plus-defender during his first stint in Denver. Afflalo is overqualified to be a back-up -- remember, he was a 2014 All-Star candidate in Orlando -- but he should expect plenty of minutes in Portland because he can swing up to play the three behind Nicolas Batum as well. Acquiring Afflalo should relieve some of the expectations on second-year guard CJ McCollum and it gives Portland its best backcourt reserve scoring threat in years. He counts as an immediate and significant upgrade. Gee, whose $1 million contract ends this summer, is a well-traveled swingman who gives Stotts another experienced body and injury protection.

...

Looking at the surface details -- three players and one pick for what could be a three-month rental -- the price does appear a bit high at first blush. Timing-wise, it's a worthwhile play. The trade signals to Aldridge that Portland is serious about making the most of his prime, it fortifies Portland's bench for the playoffs, it gives the franchise a better shot at advancing deep in the postseason for the first time in more than a decade and it didn't cost any indispensable rotation players. Olshey made the right decision shelling out a little more for Afflalo's good fit rather than skimping by on a lesser talent (say, Boston's Marcus Thornton), especially when billionaire owner Paul Allen can swallow the extra incoming salary.

The Blazers aren't going "all in" here, but they are throwing a nice stack of chips into the West's big pot. They are doing it in a calculated, not reckless, fashion. This was a trade worth trying.

 

[jlprk]

I cant believe this argument is still going on.


Please follow along, I will type slowly.

We were in win now mode. Meaning going for it all.
Wes went down. We had no one who could immediately step into his shoes and contribute without requiring further development. Whether that means more minutes is irrelevant, because AT THE TIME Wes went down, we did not have the luxury of possibly losing games through development.
If Wes had gone down early in the season, certainly you give minutes to internal players. But THERE WAS NO TIME TO DEVELOP IF YOU WANTED TO WIN IT ALL THAT YEAR.
So we trade for a player who was thought to be able to come in and contribute immediately. People say he didn't contribute. Do those people recognize he injured his shoulder? Can we say whether he would have been able to contribute consistently if he was 100% healthy?
NO we cant.
So for those saying it was a bad trade, you are basing it off of things you do not know and can not prove.

YES, hindsight shows it was not a trade that helped the team, but again. AT THE TIME, it was the right move to try to continue our momentum and going for it all. Does anyone really think Afflalo was brought in to be here long term?
No.
He was a stop gap so we can keep on trucking through the playoffs.

Will was an out of control player with some serious potential, but wasn't showing signs of reigning in his game. We still had CJ, a much better prospect waiting on the bench, so ONE of them wasn't going to develop with minutes here anyhow.
Does The Thrill have more value now that he has developed?
Yes. Two years later.
Does CJ have more value now that he has developed?
YES and its FAR better than Wills.
Could EITHER of them have developed in the 20 or so games we had left before the playoffs? Yes, CJ did, but Will?
I highly doubt it.
He is still not the best player on a crappy team and still makes a ton of boneheaded decisions.

So for those of you who want to bitch and complain the trade was bad, please produce an alternative scenario that could have played out that doesn't involve some delusional idea that Will would have been just fine stepping up AT THAT TIME and providing a consistent contribution to help our push in going for it all?
Short of trading LMA and blowing it up, which some say should have happened, there wasn't much to do, but if you wanted to make a push, we needed to have one more vet contribute and so we went and got one. And again, HE also go injured.
Don't forget. He got injured and tried playing through it because he know what he was here for. I give him respect for that while some people shit on him and say he sucked.

YOU ever play a sport injured and try to play at an optimal level?

This trade from two years ago seriously needs to be put to rest. It was the decision made and those who didn't like it or don't like it now, are only using hindsight vision and short term memory to come to their conclusions.

There is a broader picture than just the here and now people.


Just sayin...

Good attempt at reasoning, but sorry...Olshey overpaid.