Zombie Fire Olshey

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TBpup said:
Olshey gets a lot of credit for his Drafts but I'm of the opinion they really haven't been that great.

2010:
#9 - Al-Farouq Aminu
(#10 Paul George to Indiana)
(#11 Gordon Hayward to Utah)
Possibly his worst draft. Complete miss as Aminu has by far had the least impact in relation to the 2 players picked right after him.

2011:
Traded Baron Williams and their #1 pick (that became Kyrie Irving) for Jamario Moon and Mo Williams
#37 pick LA Clippers - selected Trey Tompins
(#38 - Chandler Parsons to Houston)

2012:
#6 - Damian Lillard
#11 - Meyers Leonard
#40 - Will Barton
#41 - Tyshawn Taylor
Probably his best Draft although many will say Lillard was Portland's first choice before Olshey got they. Meyers hasn't panned out (you can highly question him being re-signed) but there was no clear 'miss' right after him and Barton has been very serviceable for a 2nd round pick.

2013:
#10 CJ McCollum
(#15 - Giannis Antetokuonmpo to MIL)
#39 - Jeff Withey
#40 - Grant Jerrett
#45 - Marko Todorovic
Traded 2 future 2nd round picks for Allan Crabbe
Four picks with only one hit and missed on Giannis. Many people will say, "how was Olshey supposed to know GF would turn out like that?", which is a fair question but that is their job. They are graded on hits and misses because that is what they are paid for to do full time. CJ wasn't a miss as he is a very accomplished scorer....but GF will be an All-Star and All-NBA player which CJ has yet to sniff.

2014:
No picks of any kind. All had been traded away.

2015:
#23 Hollis-Jefferson, immediately traded with Steve Blake for Plumlee/Connaughton
Traded cash for #54 Utah pick Daniel Diaz
(Nothing to take notice of here..)

2016:
No Draft picks...again. They had all been traded away. Traded another future 2nd for Jake Layman

2017:
#15 - Justin Jackson
#20 - Harry Giles
#26 - Caleb Swanigan
(Jackson and Giles traded for Collins. Swanigan picked right before #27 Kyle Kuzma who will make the All-Rookie team and instead of local favorite Jordan Bell who will also make the All-Rookie team.)

So far in 7 years of Drafting, really only 2 hits if you believe Dame was already the choice before Olshey got here. CJ and Barton....and that comes with the caveat that CJ was taken instead of GF. Now Collins may become one but it's too early to tell. The other thing I notice is that, if Oshey's strength is the Draft, why does he keep trading away picks? Since Neil got to Portland, he has traded away something like 15 Draft picks while getting back around 6. I somewhat lost track after a while as the number was quite high for a 5 year stretch of trades.

Since the Blazers aren't getting anyone of significance to come here via FA'cy, Draft picks are crucial for acquiring players that you have control over. Neil is one smooooth talkin' guy but the more I looked at the Draft history, the less I was impressed.
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You've posted this before. It's a bit tired.
 
dviss1 said:
Fallacy.
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It might not have been a sure thing, but the warning signs were there. And if you believe all of the reports out of the Blazers that LMA was a diva and an issue to work with, I can't imagine he wasn't concerned.

So maybe it was hubris that he and Paul thought they could convince him to stay? Either way, it wasn't completely out of left field. There had been rumors of LMA wanting out for a couple of years at that point.
 
TBpup said:
Olshey gets a lot of credit for his Drafts but I'm of the opinion they really haven't been that great.

Since the Blazers aren't getting anyone of significance to come here via FA'cy, Draft picks are crucial for acquiring players that you have control over. Neil is one smooooth talkin' guy but the more I looked at the Draft history, the less I was impressed.
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I think the same can be said about his trades. Here's his record (minus the ones that occurred in June with the draft).

February 24, 2011: Traded Baron Davis and a 2011 1st round draft pick (Kyrie Irving was later selected) to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Jamario Moon and Mo Williams. Very BAD

December 14, 2011: Traded Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman and a 2012 1st round draft pick (Austin Rivers was later selected) to the New Orleans Hornets for Chris Paul, $350K cash and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Arturas Gudaitis was later selected). Very Good

March 15, 2012: As part of a 3-team trade, the Los Angeles Clippers traded Brian Cook and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Arturas Gudaitis was later selected) to the Washington Wizards; and the Washington Wizards traded Nick Young to the Los Angeles Clippers. Neutral

July 16, 2012: Traded Raymond Felton and Kurt Thomas to the New York Knicks for Dan Gadzuric, Jared Jeffries, Kostas Papanikolaou, Giorgos Printezis, cash and a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Chinanu Onuaku was later selected). Neutral

July 20, 2012: As part of a 3-team trade, the Portland Trail Blazers traded Jon Diebler to the Houston Rockets; the Boston Celtics traded Sasha Pavlovic to the Portland Trail Blazers. Neutral

February 21, 2013: Traded Giorgos Printezis to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Eric Maynor. Oklahoma City also received a trade exception from Portland. Good

July 10, 2013: Traded Kostas Papanikolau, Mirko Todorovic, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Dillon Brooks was later selected) to the Houston Rockets for Thomas Robinson. Neutral (but good try)

July 10, 2013: As part of a 3-team trade, the Portland Trail Blazers traded cash, a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Malcolm Brogdon was later selected) and a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Chinanu Onuaku was later selected) to the Sacramento Kings; the Portland Trail Blazers traded Jeff Withey to the New Orleans Pelicans; the New Orleans Pelicans traded Terrel Harris and Robin Lopez to the Portland Trail Blazers. Good (Rolo solidified the team)

February 19, 2015: Traded Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas Robinson and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Malik Beasley was later selected) to the Denver Nuggets for Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee. (DEN 2016 1st round pick received from POR is lottery protected.) BAD (this has been re-hashed several times. I didn't like Afflalo at the time, and thought it was a poor trade).

June 24, 2015: Traded Nicolas Batum to the Charlotte Hornets for Gerald Henderson and Noah Vonleh. BAD (would've been a neutral if we would've kept Gerald past 1 year)

July 14, 2015: Traded a 2020 2nd round draft pick to the Orlando Magic for Maurice Harkless. Good

July 27, 2015: Traded cash considerations to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Brendan Haywood, Mike Miller, a 2019 2nd round draft pick and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. Neutral

February 18, 2016: Traded cash considerations to the Miami Heat for Brian Roberts and a 2021 2nd round draft pick. Neutral

February 18, 2016: As part of a 3-team trade, the Portland Trail Blazers traded a 2020 2nd round draft pick to the Orlando Magic; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Anderson Varejao and a 2018 1st round draft pick to the Portland Trail Blazers. (1st-rd pick from CLE to POR is top-10 protected in 2018 & 2019). BAD (The trade itself was OK, but Olshey decided to cut & stretch Varejao instead of keep his salary on the books during the '15-16 season. Varejao is still on Portland's books for almost $2M for the next 4 years. If Portland ends up paying tax, this trade will become very bad).

January 6, 2017: Traded a 2018 1st round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for a 2017 1st round draft pick (Caleb Swanigan was later selected). (2018 1st-Rd pick is Cleveland's own pick, previously traded to Portland in Feb. 2016) Neutral

February 13, 2017: Traded Mason Plumlee, cash considerations and a 2018 2nd round draft pick to the Denver Nuggets for Jusuf Nurkic and a 2017 1st round draft pick (Harry Giles was later selected). (2017 1st-Rd pick sent to POR is MEM's pick) Good.

June 28, 2017: Traded Tim Quarterman to the Houston Rockets for cash considerations. Neutral

July 25, 2017: Traded Allen Crabbe to the Brooklyn Nets for Andrew Nicholson. BAD (The trade itself was OK, but Olshey made a VERY poor decision to match the contract in the first place. Portland now has Nicholson's contract on the books for almost $3M for the next 6 years. If Portland ends up paying tax, this trade will become very bad - because it was necessitated by matching the contract).



 
Natebishop3 said:
It might not have been a sure thing, but the warning signs were there. And if you believe all of the reports out of the Blazers that LMA was a diva and an issue to work with, I can't imagine he wasn't concerned.

So maybe it was hubris that he and Paul thought they could convince him to stay? Either way, it wasn't completely out of left field. There had been rumors of LMA wanting out for a couple of years at that point.
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I know you wanted to trade him bad but don't let hindsight cloud the truth. The truth is that turncoat motherfucker LIED.

Plain and simple.
 
TBpup said:
Olshey gets a lot of credit for his Drafts but I'm of the opinion they really haven't been that great.

2010:
#9 - Al-Farouq Aminu
(#10 Paul George to Indiana)
(#11 Gordon Hayward to Utah)
Possibly his worst draft. Complete miss as Aminu has by far had the least impact in relation to the 2 players picked right after him.

2011:
Traded Baron Williams and their #1 pick (that became Kyrie Irving) for Jamario Moon and Mo Williams
#37 pick LA Clippers - selected Trey Tompins
(#38 - Chandler Parsons to Houston)

2012:
#6 - Damian Lillard
#11 - Meyers Leonard
#40 - Will Barton
#41 - Tyshawn Taylor
Probably his best Draft although many will say Lillard was Portland's first choice before Olshey got they. Meyers hasn't panned out (you can highly question him being re-signed) but there was no clear 'miss' right after him and Barton has been very serviceable for a 2nd round pick.

2013:
#10 CJ McCollum
(#15 - Giannis Antetokuonmpo to MIL)
#39 - Jeff Withey
#40 - Grant Jerrett
#45 - Marko Todorovic
Traded 2 future 2nd round picks for Allan Crabbe
Four picks with only one hit and missed on Giannis. Many people will say, "how was Olshey supposed to know GF would turn out like that?", which is a fair question but that is their job. They are graded on hits and misses because that is what they are paid for to do full time. CJ wasn't a miss as he is a very accomplished scorer....but GF will be an All-Star and All-NBA player which CJ has yet to sniff.

2014:
No picks of any kind. All had been traded away.

2015:
#23 Hollis-Jefferson, immediately traded with Steve Blake for Plumlee/Connaughton
Traded cash for #54 Utah pick Daniel Diaz
(Nothing to take notice of here..)

2016:
No Draft picks...again. They had all been traded away. Traded another future 2nd for Jake Layman

2017:
#15 - Justin Jackson
#20 - Harry Giles
#26 - Caleb Swanigan
(Jackson and Giles traded for Collins. Swanigan picked right before #27 Kyle Kuzma who will make the All-Rookie team and instead of local favorite Jordan Bell who will also make the All-Rookie team.)

So far in 7 years of Drafting, really only 2 hits if you believe Dame was already the choice before Olshey got here. CJ and Barton....and that comes with the caveat that CJ was taken instead of GF. Now Collins may become one but it's too early to tell. The other thing I notice is that, if Oshey's strength is the Draft, why does he keep trading away picks? Since Neil got to Portland, he has traded away something like 15 Draft picks while getting back around 6. I somewhat lost track after a while as the number was quite high for a 5 year stretch of trades.

Since the Blazers aren't getting anyone of significance to come here via FA'cy, Draft picks are crucial for acquiring players that you have control over. Neil is one smooooth talkin' guy but the more I looked at the Draft history, the less I was impressed.
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How long do you think it would take for you to do one of these for the other GMs? Because it shouldn’t be hard, just need the agenda.
 
dviss1 said:
I know you wanted to trade him bad but don't let hindsight cloud the truth. The truth is that turncoat motherfucker LIED.

Plain and simple.
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It's not hindsight if we were basically screaming to trade him when the rumors first came out that he wanted a trade.

He lied publicly, to the fans, but I can't imagine that Neil wasn't aware of any issues.

We did everything in our fucking power to make that bastard happy. You don't do that unless you're worried they're going to leave. It's pretty obvious that he talked about wanting out, and instead of dumping his ass we tried to win him over. It was a mistake.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It's not hindsight if we were basically screaming to trade him when the rumors first came out that he wanted a trade.

He lied publicly, to the fans, but I can't imagine that Neil wasn't aware of any issues.

We did everything in our fucking power to make that bastard happy. You don't do that unless you're worried they're going to leave. It's pretty obvious that he talked about wanting out, and instead of dumping his ass we tried to win him over. It was a mistake.
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You can call it "doing everything in our fucking power to make that bastard happy" or you can call it building around your best player.

EVERY team does that.
 
Paul Allen has a long history of over-rewarding players based on a short run of good or exciting play. I have no doubt that if Nurk's contract had been up this summer Paul would have maxed him. When did Paul extend Olshey, and based on what move? Olshey is a slick talking bully with the media which seems to help insulate him from criticism. I think the body of evidence is not in Olshey's favor. If he doesn't put it together by next July, Olshey should be fired. If not sooner.

:cheers:
 
Scalma said:
He literally had to start over when Aldridge left. I get that fans aren’t patient, they shouldn’t be, but this was never anything but a rebuild.
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If it was a rebuild then he should have ripped the band-aid off and done a proper rebuild, not some half-ass, patchwork job, stitched together with old cast-offs.
We just so happened to overachieve the last couple of years, because if you look at our roster, it wasn’t a playoff caliber one. It still isn’t. We’re just “lucky” we have Dame and a good coach who bleed everything out of the squad. Neil has had his misses in free agency but it’s not like signing Turner (or any of the rest) kept us from adding another player who would’ve put us over the top.
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The trouble is, Olshey treated the roster like it was playoff/conference finals caliber with the money he spent, and while there wasn't anything better on the free agent market that he could have gotten over Turner, the fact is, that move is preventing things from happening now, because his contract is so unmovable (same goes for Meyers' deal), nevermind the fact that his whole strategy was built around free agency in the first place. He struck out. His plan failed. Time to move on and stop repeating the same mistakes.
 
Nikolokolus said:
He struck out.
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I just don't think another GM will have better luck signing free agents though....it's not a free agent market here. Olshey tries to do it through the draft and trades.....and he's had some hits and misses...not sure another GM will have any better luck in that world...best bet we have for attracting free agents is to improve from within'.....that's not a proven method but it's all we've really got unless we can fleece someone in a trade....players seem to like Stotts...those players are our best bet at luring talent to the team
 
riverman said:
I just don't think another GM will have better luck signing free agents though....it's not a free agent market here. Olshey tries to do it through the draft and trades.....and he's had some hits and misses...not sure another GM will have any better luck in that world...best bet we have for attracting free agents is to improve from within'.....that's not a proven method but it's all we've really got unless we can fleece someone in a trade....players seem to like Stotts...those players are our best bet at luring talent to the team
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I agree. Which is why I'm critical of Olshey's strategy, as much as his tactics. Also trading away as many first round draft picks as he has is part of the problem too, especially for a franchise who's only option for acquiring top-tier talent is the draft.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Aldridge leaving was something he knew for over a year.
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dviss1 said:
Fallacy.
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Who knows what Olshey 'knew' but he had to be aware of some things. I was told in no uncertain terms from someone very close to the LA camp that he would not be back and that was a season and a half before he left. So if someone was telling me that, other people absolutely had to know.

Now maybe they thought they could change his mind which is why they were having a trophy ceremony for him every other game in his last season here but I wholeheartedly believe the 'fallacy' would be that they didn't know.
 
TBpup said:
Who knows what Olshey 'knew' but he had to be aware of some things. I was told in no uncertain terms from someone very close to the LA camp that he would not be back and that was a season and a half before he left. So if someone was telling me that, other people absolutely had to know.

Now maybe they thought they could change his mind which is why they were having a trophy ceremony for him every other game in his last season here but I wholeheartedly believe the 'fallacy' would be that they didn't know.
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You were told. Remember how Lebron left cleveland and Dan Gilbert didn't find out until "The Decision" aired?

I'm SURE someone in LeBron's camp knew but Gilbert didn't until the airing.

Just because you knew and were told doesn't mean NO was nor does it mean you KNOW he was told. You don't. Pure speculation.

The FACTS are that we know what LA said. We know what was reported.

LaMarcus Aldridge pledges to sign contract extension with Trail Blazers next summer, says he wants to be 'the best Blazer ever'
 
dviss1 said:
You were told. Remember how Lebron left cleveland and Dan Gilbert didn't find out until "The Decision" aired?

I'm SURE someone in LeBron's camp knew but Gilbert didn't until the airing.

Just because you knew and were told doesn't mean NO was nor does it mean you KNOW he was told. You don't. Pure speculation.

The FACTS are that we know what LA said. We know what was reported.

LaMarcus Aldridge pledges to sign contract extension with Trail Blazers next summer, says he wants to be 'the best Blazer ever'
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I fucking hate (HATE!!!) citing Canzano but he also heard well in advance that LMA was not coming back and took some serious flack over it. But he was correct, no matter how anyone feels about that. Olshey knew but let his ego believe he could change LA’s mind. And we got fucked. That facts are that Aldridge made up his mind to go and he did. All the revisionist history in the world isn’t gonna change that. NO fucked up and it is what it is.....
 
Sheesh, people are still debating about LMA leaving what three years ago? This is clearly an indication of how bad the Blazers are this year if a three year old debate is resurfacing.
 
dviss1 said:
You were told. Remember how Lebron left cleveland and Dan Gilbert didn't find out until "The Decision" aired?

I'm SURE someone in LeBron's camp knew but Gilbert didn't until the airing.

Just because you knew and were told doesn't mean NO was nor does it mean you KNOW he was told. You don't. Pure speculation.

The FACTS are that we know what LA said. We know what was reported.

LaMarcus Aldridge pledges to sign contract extension with Trail Blazers next summer, says he wants to be 'the best Blazer ever'
Click to expand...
So everything reported is a fact?

NO knew, PA knew, others knew he was not coming back
 
dviss1 said:
You were told. Remember how Lebron left cleveland and Dan Gilbert didn't find out until "The Decision" aired?

I'm SURE someone in LeBron's camp knew but Gilbert didn't until the airing.

Just because you knew and were told doesn't mean NO was nor does it mean you KNOW he was told. You don't. Pure speculation.

The FACTS are that we know what LA said. We know what was reported.

LaMarcus Aldridge pledges to sign contract extension with Trail Blazers next summer, says he wants to be 'the best Blazer ever'
Click to expand...

So either Olshey knew, or I really have extremely exclusive insider information. :cheers: Feel free to choose my referee compatriot.
 
tester551 said:
I think the same can be said about his trades. Here's his record (minus the ones that occurred in June with the draft).

February 24, 2011: Traded Baron Davis and a 2011 1st round draft pick (Kyrie Irving was later selected) to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Jamario Moon and Mo Williams. Very BAD

December 14, 2011: Traded Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman and a 2012 1st round draft pick (Austin Rivers was later selected) to the New Orleans Hornets for Chris Paul, $350K cash and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Arturas Gudaitis was later selected). Very Good

March 15, 2012: As part of a 3-team trade, the Los Angeles Clippers traded Brian Cook and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Arturas Gudaitis was later selected) to the Washington Wizards; and the Washington Wizards traded Nick Young to the Los Angeles Clippers. Neutral

July 16, 2012: Traded Raymond Felton and Kurt Thomas to the New York Knicks for Dan Gadzuric, Jared Jeffries, Kostas Papanikolaou, Giorgos Printezis, cash and a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Chinanu Onuaku was later selected). Neutral

July 20, 2012: As part of a 3-team trade, the Portland Trail Blazers traded Jon Diebler to the Houston Rockets; the Boston Celtics traded Sasha Pavlovic to the Portland Trail Blazers. Neutral

February 21, 2013: Traded Giorgos Printezis to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Eric Maynor. Oklahoma City also received a trade exception from Portland. Good

July 10, 2013: Traded Kostas Papanikolau, Mirko Todorovic, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Dillon Brooks was later selected) to the Houston Rockets for Thomas Robinson. Neutral (but good try)

July 10, 2013: As part of a 3-team trade, the Portland Trail Blazers traded cash, a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Malcolm Brogdon was later selected) and a 2016 2nd round draft pick (Chinanu Onuaku was later selected) to the Sacramento Kings; the Portland Trail Blazers traded Jeff Withey to the New Orleans Pelicans; the New Orleans Pelicans traded Terrel Harris and Robin Lopez to the Portland Trail Blazers. Good (Rolo solidified the team)

February 19, 2015: Traded Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas Robinson and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Malik Beasley was later selected) to the Denver Nuggets for Arron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee. (DEN 2016 1st round pick received from POR is lottery protected.) BAD (this has been re-hashed several times. I didn't like Afflalo at the time, and thought it was a poor trade).

June 24, 2015: Traded Nicolas Batum to the Charlotte Hornets for Gerald Henderson and Noah Vonleh. BAD (would've been a neutral if we would've kept Gerald past 1 year)

July 14, 2015: Traded a 2020 2nd round draft pick to the Orlando Magic for Maurice Harkless. Good

July 27, 2015: Traded cash considerations to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Brendan Haywood, Mike Miller, a 2019 2nd round draft pick and a 2020 2nd round draft pick. Neutral

February 18, 2016: Traded cash considerations to the Miami Heat for Brian Roberts and a 2021 2nd round draft pick. Neutral

February 18, 2016: As part of a 3-team trade, the Portland Trail Blazers traded a 2020 2nd round draft pick to the Orlando Magic; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Anderson Varejao and a 2018 1st round draft pick to the Portland Trail Blazers. (1st-rd pick from CLE to POR is top-10 protected in 2018 & 2019). BAD (The trade itself was OK, but Olshey decided to cut & stretch Varejao instead of keep his salary on the books during the '15-16 season. Varejao is still on Portland's books for almost $2M for the next 4 years. If Portland ends up paying tax, this trade will become very bad).

January 6, 2017: Traded a 2018 1st round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for a 2017 1st round draft pick (Caleb Swanigan was later selected). (2018 1st-Rd pick is Cleveland's own pick, previously traded to Portland in Feb. 2016) Neutral

February 13, 2017: Traded Mason Plumlee, cash considerations and a 2018 2nd round draft pick to the Denver Nuggets for Jusuf Nurkic and a 2017 1st round draft pick (Harry Giles was later selected). (2017 1st-Rd pick sent to POR is MEM's pick) Good.

June 28, 2017: Traded Tim Quarterman to the Houston Rockets for cash considerations. Neutral

July 25, 2017: Traded Allen Crabbe to the Brooklyn Nets for Andrew Nicholson. BAD (The trade itself was OK, but Olshey made a VERY poor decision to match the contract in the first place. Portland now has Nicholson's contract on the books for almost $3M for the next 6 years. If Portland ends up paying tax, this trade will become very bad - because it was necessitated by matching the contract).
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Just to be fair, the last one was a bad signing, and actually a good trade; at least if another GM had done the signing, people would say that it was a great move getting out of it. Also don't forget he traded cash for Napier, a very good trade.
 
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