Zombie Fire Olshey

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CupWizier said:
And? History doesn't always repeat itself. I look at every year as a new beginning but i tend to look at the positives rather than dwelling on the negatives.
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Maybe it's not as either/or as you're making it. It isn't negative to recognize that 10 straight playoff losses suggests a need for a new approach. It's a natural, and obvious, conclusion. How is one to improve if he/she doesn't learn from the past?
 
Propagandist said:
Maybe it's not as either/or as you're making it. It isn't negative to recognize that 10 straight playoff losses suggests a need for a new approach. It's a natural, and obvious, conclusion. How is one to improve if he/she doesn't learn from the past?
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What makes you think they haven't learned from the past? The past is the past though and doesn't mean it will repeat. If that were the case no team will ever improve by your theory. Besides, each year there have been changes made.
 
CupWizier said:
What makes you think they haven't learned from the past? The past is the past though and doesn't mean it will repeat. If that were the case no team will ever improve by your theory. Besides, each year there have been changes made.
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10 straight losses with no real roster changes makes me think that. The same old style of play makes me think that. The fact that Stotts is still coach makes me think that. Neil Olshey's interviews and inability to follow through with what he says makes me think that. I don't necessarily want these or those changes, but there is pretty much zero evidence that we've looked to address anything other than the fact that only way to use ET is as a distributor (which is just disguising a weakness by playing to its "strengths") and bench scoring a little bit. I do think Rodney Hood will help...

The crazy thing is, you look at the teams that have had success, like the Warriors or the Rockets or the Bucks or Toronto, et al. and you see what it looks like when you are trying to win or address certain issues. Those teams are actively trying to improve all of the time. Those rosters are everchanging and evermoving and it certainly seems to work.
 
Propagandist said:
10 straight losses with no real roster changes makes me think that. The same old style of play makes me think that. The fact that Stotts is still coach makes me think that. Neil Olshey's interviews and inability to follow through with what he says makes me think that. I don't necessarily want these or those changes, but there is pretty much zero evidence that we've looked to address anything other than the fact that only way to use ET is as a distributor (which is just disguising a weakness by playing to its "strengths") and bench scoring a little bit. I do think Rodney Hood will help...

The crazy thing is, you look at the teams that have had success, like the Warriors or the Rockets or the Bucks or Toronto, et al. and you see what it looks like when you are trying to win or address certain issues. Those teams are actively trying to improve all of the time. Those rosters are everchanging and evermoving and it certainly seems to work.
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Every year Lillard improves parts of his game. Nurkic's game has expanded bigly this year and Layman has been a huge surprise along with guys like Curry and now with Hood and Turner has proven to be a solid facilitator for the second unit compared to last year. We are a better team than we were last year and to say we play the same is also not accurate as we have seen Nurk be implemented more in the offense with pic and rolls and the alley oops to Layman have also added another dimension and assists have dramatically improved since last year and the beginning of this year. I don't see the same team as last year. The Pelicans are also a shell of themselves from last year so they aren;t the same threat and likely not even make the playoffs.
 
CupWizier said:
Every year Lillard improves parts of his game. Nurkic's game has expanded bigly this year and Layman has been a huge surprise along with guys like Curry and now with Hood and Turner has proven to be a solid facilitator for the second unit compared to last year. We are a better team than we were last year and to say we play the same is also not accurate as we have seen Nurk be implemented more in the offense with pic and rolls and the alley oops to Layman have also added another dimension and assists have dramatically improved since last year and the beginning of this year. I don't see the same team as last year. The Pelicans are also a shell of themselves from last year so they aren;t the same threat and likely not even make the playoffs.
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I'm okay with others having that approach but would you feel the same way next year if they lose in the 1st round and only made minimal roster changes again with the same coach and GM?

I guess what I'm asking is where is the line between keep on trying similar things or time to make a major shakeup?
 
CupWizier said:
Every year Lillard improves parts of his game. Nurkic's game has expanded bigly this year and Layman has been a huge surprise along with guys like Curry and now with Hood and Turner has proven to be a solid facilitator for the second unit compared to last year. We are a better team than we were last year and to say we play the same is also not accurate as we have seen Nurk be implemented more in the offense with pic and rolls and the alley oops to Layman have also added another dimension and assists have dramatically improved since last year and the beginning of this year. I don't see the same team as last year. The Pelicans are also a shell of themselves from last year so they aren;t the same threat and likely not even make the playoffs.
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Yes, we are a tending garden franchise. And yes, we get incrementally better every year. At this rate we'll be winning the championship in 2030. I don't even think I'm going out on a limb to say years from now and shake our heads about what could have been if we had surrounded Dame with better players.

The point certainly isn't the Pelicans, other than to show how a fragile team dissected us. The point is the winning teams. The teams that make winning in the playoffs a priority. That's not us.
 
Propagandist said:
Yes, we are a tending garden franchise. And yes, we get incrementally better every year. At this rate we'll be winning the championship in 2030. I don't even think I'm going out on a limb to say years from now and shake our heads about what could have been if we had surrounded Dame with better players.

The point certainly isn't the Pelicans, other than to show how a fragile team dissected us. The point is the winning teams. The teams that make winning in the playoffs a priority. That's not us.
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Yeah. I agree with post whole heartedly. We improve incrementally. Teams in other markets can change out their rosters over one year's period. We are going nowhere but hovering around in the same place. It's like racing a two seat Renault against an F1 Ferrari.
 
hoopsjock said:
But before Nurk fever the following year when we were on the outside of the playoff race. We haven't won a playoff game since this thread started either.
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Another true statement. Guess we better tell Jennifer we are still trying? There is no question last year was bad. But i just cannot see that team doing that with Dame playing well, Harkless and Turner healthy and a better run into the playoffs. They blew a couple games in the last 10 that they never should have lost. Had they won those games i believe they would have been able to rest some players and get healthy.

Water under the bridge now though. Last year sucked no question. Hope they play better this year.
 
CupWizier said:
Every year Lillard improves parts of his game. Nurkic's game has expanded bigly this year and Layman has been a huge surprise along with guys like Curry and now with Hood and Turner has proven to be a solid facilitator for the second unit compared to last year. We are a better team than we were last year and to say we play the same is also not accurate as we have seen Nurk be implemented more in the offense with pic and rolls and the alley oops to Layman have also added another dimension and assists have dramatically improved since last year and the beginning of this year. I don't see the same team as last year. The Pelicans are also a shell of themselves from last year so they aren;t the same threat and likely not even make the playoffs.
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I want to add that I love this team. I'm never trolling, er, except when I bait Bones about Zach. Sure, I'd like to see guys like ET gone, but this is my team. I just want to be the guy emotionally attached to the players, not the GM, if that makes sense. Through the clouds of fandom I can see cracks in the walls; I need the GM to address them.
 
Propagandist said:
I want to add that I love this team. I'm never trolling, er, except when I bait Bones about Zach. Sure, I'd like to see guys like ET gone, but this is my team. I just want to be the guy emotionally attached to the players, not the GM, if that makes sense. Through the clouds of fandom I can see cracks in the walls; I need the GM to address them.
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I have always attached myself emotionally to the players as those are the ones that are visible where as management is behind closed doors and like Wizard mention, none of us know the details of any trades that might have been discussed. As for Olshey, he may or may not even be here next year and my approach is always one year at a time. I have been a Blazer fan since day one and an NBA fan probably as far back as the early 60's. As a player I was an emotional and intense player, but as a fan, I look at it as entertainment and this team is entertaining me. Getting all worked up and losing sleep over a sports team that I have zero input or control over seems foolish as their are way more important things for me to deal with. Watching sports is a release from all the other stuff in life, not an additional burden.
 
CupWizier said:
I have always attached myself emotionally to the players as those are the ones that are visible where as management is behind closed doors and like Wizard mention, none of us know the details of any trades that might have been discussed. As for Olshey, he may or may not even be here next year and my approach is always one year at a time. I have been a Blazer fan since day one and an NBA fan probably as far back as the early 60's. As a player I was an emotional and intense player, but as a fan, I look at it as entertainment and this team is entertaining me. Getting all worked up and losing sleep over a sports team that I have zero input or control over seems foolish as their are way more important things for me to deal with. Watching sports is a release from all the other stuff in life, not an additional burden.
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This place must drive you crazy...
 
kjironman1 said:
Interesting enough. This thread was started after getting to the second round.
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@ L 106 - 118
@ L 99 - 110
W 120 - 108 (no Curry)
L 125 - 132
@ L 121 - 125
@ L 109 - 121
@ L 81 - 110
L 113 - 119
L 103 - 128
L 95 - 97
L 102 - 111
@ L 102 - 119
@ L 123 - 131

so, after getting to the 2nd round (after beating a crippled team), Portland is 1-12 with the 12 losses coming by an average of -12.0 points. How bad is that margin of loss? The biggest negative MOV in the NBA right now is Cleveland at -10.7; the biggest last season was Phoenix at -9.4; the year before was the Lakers at -6.9. If that record was projected over a full season, it would be 6-76

yeah, I know...mitigating circumstances...Warriors etc. Still, that playoff record is horrid. It was so bad that Olshey made a point of saying that Portland absolutely needed to get some playoff tested veterans on the team. That was right before he drafted 2 rookies and signed 2 free agents that had exactly 0 games of playoff experience

he finally got a veteran with playoff experience in Hood. Unfortunately, Hood's career marks in the playoffs are a FG% under 39%; a three point percentage of 23%; a 6.5 PER; negative winshare marks; and a BPM of -5.6

sure, it could all end up completely different this year and in the playoffs. But there is plenty of reason to be skeptical about Portland having done enough to address the issues exposed in last year's playoffs.
 
I
wizenheimer said:
@ L 106 - 118
@ L 99 - 110
W 120 - 108 (no Curry)
L 125 - 132
@ L 121 - 125
@ L 109 - 121
@ L 81 - 110
L 113 - 119
L 103 - 128
L 95 - 97
L 102 - 111
@ L 102 - 119
@ L 123 - 131

so, after getting to the 2nd round (after beating a crippled team), Portland is 1-12 with the 12 losses coming by an average of -12.0 points. How bad is that margin of loss? The biggest negative MOV in the NBA right now is Cleveland at -10.7; the biggest last season was Phoenix at -9.4; the year before was the Lakers at -6.9. If that record was projected over a full season, it would be 6-76

yeah, I know...mitigating circumstances...Warriors etc. Still, that playoff record is horrid. It was so bad that Olshey made a point of saying that Portland absolutely needed to get some playoff tested veterans on the team. That was right before he drafted 2 rookies and signed 2 free agents that had exactly 0 games of playoff experience

he finally got a veteran with playoff experience in Hood. Unfortunately, Hood's career marks in the playoffs are a FG% under 39%; a three point percentage of 23%; a 6.5 PER; negative winshare marks; and a BPM of -5.6

sure, it could all end up completely different this year and in the playoffs. But there is plenty of reason to be skeptical about Portland having done enough to address the issues exposed in last year's playoffs.
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Is there actually a point that someone here doesn't already know somewhere in that mess? Really. Are you going to wallow in defeat again next year after the team does the best they can and they don't win a championship again? A super team called the Golden State Warriors is going to win the championship this year unless there is a couple of major injuries to stop them. But hey that's why they play the games right?
 
kjironman1 said:
I

Is there actually a point that someone here doesn't already know somewhere in that mess? Really. Are you going to wallow in defeat again next year after the team does the best they can and they don't win a championship again? A super team called the Golden State Warriors is going to win the championship this year unless there is a couple of major injuries to stop them. But hey that's why they play the games right?
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there was a debate going on about Portland's playoff futility over the last 3 playoff series and if Portland had done enough to suggest this season was going to be different. The point was actually to define the futility as it needed to be defined. It hasn't been some minor futility...it has been borderline abject futility. Deep and abiding

so then, what reason is there...."Really"...to expect that the team has improved enough to have a different result? What reasons are there to expect this season's playoff result to change from a 1-12 first round record to a 4-2 or 4-3 record? Has Nurkic improved enough? Layman? CJ? Well, what I saw just 3 days ago was a Miami team come into the Moda and do exactly what the Pelicans did in last seasons' playoffs. They sold out to stop Dame...they jumped him - blitzed him - doubled him constantly and they took him out of the game. Meanwhile, CJ played great and scored 33 on good shooting, just like he did against the Pels; Jake scored 25 on great shooting. But Nurkic was dominated by Whiteside (like he was by AD) at the same time Dame was struggling...and Portland lost

you could see it happening...the same damn strategy the Pels used to great effect, the Heat used; and Stotts had no answer after months to prepare an answer. It was either like Portland was completely surprised by seeing a defense that had shut them down before...or...they still didn't have any tools in their toolbox to counter what the opponent was doing. What I saw in that game, and in the playoffs, is that Dame is the engine that drives Portland and if a team monkey-wrenches that engine, Portland sputters. Is there any reason to believe that every potential playoff opponent isn't aware of this defensive strategy and how well it has worked?

so yeah, I really hope Portland has 'fixed' what has ailed them in the playoffs for 3 years. I'm just skeptical, like many others here, if they truly have
 
kjironman1 said:
I

Is there actually a point that someone here doesn't already know somewhere in that mess? Really. Are you going to wallow in defeat again next year after the team does the best they can and they don't win a championship again? A super team called the Golden State Warriors is going to win the championship this year unless there is a couple of major injuries to stop them. But hey that's why they play the games right?
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You do understand that there is a lot of wiggle room between championship and getting swept in the first round?
 
wizenheimer said:
there was a debate going on about Portland's playoff futility over the last 3 playoff series and if Portland had done enough to suggest this season was going to be different. The point was actually to define the futility as it needed to be defined. It hasn't been some minor futility...it has been borderline abject futility. Deep and abiding

so then, what reason is there...."Really"...to expect that the team has improved enough to have a different result? What reasons are there to expect this season's playoff result to change from a 1-12 first round record to a 4-2 or 4-3 record? Has Nurkic improved enough? Layman? CJ? Well, what I saw just 3 days ago was a Miami team come into the Moda and do exactly what the Pelicans did in last seasons' playoffs. They sold out to stop Dame...they jumped him - blitzed him - doubled him constantly and they took him out of the game. Meanwhile, CJ played great and scored 33 on good shooting, just like he did against the Pels; Jake scored 25 on great shooting. But Nurkic was dominated by Whiteside (like he was by AD) at the same time Dame was struggling...and Portland lost

you could see it happening...the same damn strategy the Pels used to great effect, the Heat used; and Stotts had no answer after months to prepare an answer. It was either like Portland was completely surprised by seeing a defense that had shut them down before...or...they still didn't have any tools in their toolbox to counter what the opponent was doing. What I saw in that game, and in the playoffs, is that Dame is the engine that drives Portland and if a team monkey-wrenches that engine, Portland sputters. Is there any reason to believe that every potential playoff opponent isn't aware of this defensive strategy and how well it has worked?

so yeah, I really hope Portland has 'fixed' what has ailed them in the playoffs for 3 years. I'm just skeptical, like many others here, if they truly have
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Nurk does seem to struggle more against long and lengthy centers.

Luckily there is only one team in the west that has a player like that in Gobert.
 
Propagandist said:
I want to add that I love this team. I'm never trolling, er, except when I bait Bones about Zach. Sure, I'd like to see guys like ET gone, but this is my team. I just want to be the guy emotionally attached to the players, not the GM, if that makes sense. Through the clouds of fandom I can see cracks in the walls; I need the GM to address them.
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Hey, screw you man!!!
 
hoopsjock said:
I'm okay with others having that approach but would you feel the same way next year if they lose in the 1st round and only made minimal roster changes again with the same coach and GM?

I guess what I'm asking is where is the line between keep on trying similar things or time to make a major shakeup?
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For me the end of year 4 of the rebuild is critical going into year 5 and changes are possible if we didn't make the playoffs or get to the second round. If we finish this season strong and do get past the first round, Id say we are on course to take even another step. The problem for all teams not just us, as now and maybe the next couple years, is nobody likely will de-throne the Warriors as built.
 
Propagandist said:
Where's @CupWizier? Cup, this is an article about what @hoopsjock, others and I were talking about:

https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest...-blazers-search-playing-rotation-loss-thunder

Not a good problem.
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"Jake Layman played 28 minutes off the bench and scored 17 points off seven shots and had a career-high four blocked shots. He’s looking more and more like a starter but Stotts just doesn’t seem willing to make that move.

He sticks with Al-Farouq Aminu for his defense but often gets little offense from him. But lately whatever he gets from Aminu is more than he’s getting from the other starting forward, Maurice Harkless.

“I liked the way we competed in the second half,” Stotts said. “I wanted to keep Chief out there with Paul George.”

For the record, George recorded a downright next-level triple-double, getting 47 points, 12 rebounds and 10 assists. Good thing they had a quality defender on him, right? The guy might have gone for a hundred."

This is making me sad because it's so True.
 
Labinot41 said:
"Jake Layman played 28 minutes off the bench and scored 17 points off seven shots and had a career-high four blocked shots. He’s looking more and more like a starter but Stotts just doesn’t seem willing to make that move.

He sticks with Al-Farouq Aminu for his defense but often gets little offense from him. But lately whatever he gets from Aminu is more than he’s getting from the other starting forward, Maurice Harkless.

“I liked the way we competed in the second half,” Stotts said. “I wanted to keep Chief out there with Paul George.”

For the record, George recorded a downright next-level triple-double, getting 47 points, 12 rebounds and 10 assists. Good thing they had a quality defender on him, right? The guy might have gone for a hundred."

This is making me sad because it's so True.
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Say maybe Fire Stotts?
 
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