Zombie Fire Olshey (1 Viewer)

[Tince]

At this rate, we could get LeBron James and if we didn't win it all, we'd have Stotts apologists blaming Olshey for not having a backup point guard.

Give this roster to a coach who actually wants to coach and not be a cheerleader and it would look much better.

Once Olshey provides us a roster with 2 all-star level players, 1 of which is 6'7" or taller and can play defense, Stotts should only get one year to make it to the finals or get canned.

Winning a playoff series out West here and there with a roster consisting of only one 6'2" all-star, is pretty much in line with what the last 30 years of NBA playoff results would yield.

Has there been one or two exceptions in 30 years where a team with one short all-star made a conference finals or NBA finals run? Yes (we're one of them), but they're not the norm. You don't make consistent deep runs in the playoffs with only one short all-star.

Why do some people here think it is the norm? I have no clue.

 

[Tince]

Neil eats, sleeps, and breathes this team and how to win more games. You may not like the moves, but to think there’s no plan or he’s just “hoping” would be wrong. You can’t spend 1 minute around him to know that he cares and is trying to make this team as good as it can be. Again. Don’t like the moves? Fine. But to insinuate he either doesn’t care or doesn’t have a plan is wrong.

Serious question: Are you around him a lot or something? If so, I have a ton of follow-up questions!

Or is this based off his one press conference year and one staged interview with Brooke?

I do agree with you that people here trying to act like they know much a player, GM, or coach cares is somewhat comical.

 

[PHXBlazer1]

Bring back Bob!

I admire your persistence..almost 2 decades later

 

[GDiama]

At this rate, we could get LeBron James and if we didn't win it all, we'd have Stotts apologists blaming Olshey for not having a backup point guard.

Give this roster to a coach who actually wants to coach and not be a cheerleader and it would look much better.

That's Olshey's fault too though isn't it? He is responsible for finding a good coach if Stotts isn't one.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

That's Olshey's fault too though isn't it? He is responsible for finding a good coach if Stotts isn't one.

Absolutely. His legacy would have been much better if he had gotten a better coach at any point during his tenure.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Once Olshey provides us a roster with 2 all-star level players, 1 of which is 6'7" or taller and can play defense, Stotts should only get one year to make it to the finals or get canned.

Winning a playoff series out West here and there with a roster consisting of only one 6'2" all-star, is pretty much in line with what the last 30 years of NBA playoff results would yield.

Has there been one or two exceptions in 30 years where a team with one short all-star made a conference finals or NBA finals run? Yes (we're one of them), but they're not the norm. You don't make consistent deep runs in the playoffs with only one short all-star.

Why do some people here think it is the norm? I have no clue.

We don't disagree. Where we do disagree is that this team should be doing much better than it has.

 

[MickZagger]

There’s not a GM in pro sports who assembles a team and 2/3rd’s of their best players get hurt and expects to win.

 

[blazerkor]

Neil eats, sleeps, and breathes this team and how to win more games. You may not like the moves, but to think there’s no plan or he’s just “hoping” would be wrong. You can’t spend 1 minute around him to know that he cares and is trying to make this team as good as it can be. Again. Don’t like the moves? Fine. But to insinuate he either doesn’t care or doesn’t have a plan is wrong.

If this guy is the hardest working GM in the game or at least the most dedicated then he's either terrible if he's trying to win a championship or amazing if he is aiming to constantly build mediocre teams that make the playoffs and do very little else. He's only failed to do that two out of eight times. His first season we didn't make the playoffs and that's understandable and then he must have fucked up in 2019 when things somehow got away from him and we made the conference finals. Oh and even though I think this gets overblown sometimes, it is worth pointing out that we never go out of the playoffs competitively.

You may be right, he may be dedicated but if you're right or wrong it doesn't matter. His efforts result in treading water right in the middle of the league. The average playoff rounds during Neil's eight season playoff run as GM is 1.4. That is absolute mediocrity. Not bad enough to get championship impacting players in the draft... unless he was the kind of guy that could pull a Giannis, Kawhi or Rudy but he's not and also not good enough to make a serious run at a championship in nine years (please spare me 2019 we got to a conference finals that we didn't belong in and then proved it by being swept). If you want to put any of this on Stotts be my guest (I know I do) but Neil is Terry's boss and could either mandate a change in Terry's staff that would make Terry more successful or fire the guy.

The bottom line is that no GM that is close to as tenured in the league has been so complacent and mediocre. Almost all of the others have won championships, they've all but one made the championships, they've all changed head coaches or won the championship. None of them have held onto the guys they view as the cornerstones of their franchise without championships like Neil has over the last six seasons. They are all either much better at finding high impact gems in the draft or signing big time free agents.

The fact that Neil is still around is lunacy. He wasn't even the guy that actually drafted Dame who if you are a rational thinker is obviously the main reason that we've had any of our successes. So what else has he done, held onto a talent that is limited by Dame and also limits Dame, paying the guy close to a max deal. Held onto Stotts who is also complacent. Given out over priced extensions. Not having foresight so he got nothing out of Aldridge's departure. Made the Afflalo deal. The scariest part of Neil still being around is that this off season with the Zach and Gary situations looming is one that takes far more shrewd finesse than Olshey has had in the past.

Neil shows us through the results and the spin that he puts on them, that he isn't dedicated to excellence... even if he is dedicated.

 

[blazerkor]

The only way (if we have good ownership) that Olshey should be able to save his job is to fire Stotts, make a good hire at head coach right away, no interim stuff and make a drastic change to personnel through a trade or two. Then these moves would have to show that they were for the better which would mean making it to a competitive second round series despite all of the upheaval. That or make it to the Finals. He will not do either.

 

[calvin natt]

I don’t believe any of that.

Ok

 

[Mediocre Man]

At this rate, we could get LeBron James and if we didn't win it all, we'd have Stotts apologists blaming Olshey for not having a backup point guard.

Give this roster to a coach who actually wants to coach and not be a cheerleader and it would look much better.

So just to be clear, you’re blaming Stotts for

2-3 injured starters
Signing Melo who plays 0 defense
Having a back court that plays 0 defense
Passing on skilled players in the draft in favor of scrubs

DESPITE all that, this team has been to the playoffs 7 straight. The second longest active streak in the league.

The reason is Dame, who was Paul Allen’s pick

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

 

[Natebishop3]

There’s not a GM in pro sports who assembles a team and 2/3rd’s of their best players get hurt and expects to win.

If you keep banking on injury prone players you’re gonna have a bad time.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

So just to be clear, you’re blaming Stotts for

2-3 injured starters
Signing Melo who plays 0 defense
Having a back court that plays 0 defense
Passing on skilled players in the draft in favor of scrubs

DESPITE all that, this team has been to the playoffs 7 straight. The second longest active streak in the league.

The reason is Dame, who was Paul Allen’s pick

I didn't mean at the moment. I meant in the totality of the Lillard/Stotts era.

Who told you Paul Allen picked Damian Lillard?

 

[Mediocre Man]

I didn't mean at the moment. I meant in the totality of the Lillard/Stotts era.

Who told you Paul Allen picked Damian Lillard?

direct from him. Dame was his pick. Decided on well before Olshey was hired. Not saying NO didn’t like Dame, but that pick was decided on before Olshey. PA was prepared to move up to get him, as well

 

[wizenheimer]

Who told you Paul Allen picked Damian Lillard?

I don't know whether it was PA of the Blazer scouting staff, but the 'history' as I know it:

Portland spent years looking for the PGOTF after Damon Stoudamire. It was an obsession shared by Paul Allen; he even talked about it. They tried again and again: Nick Van Exel, Sebastian Telfaire, Jarret Jack, Sergio Rodriguez, Steve Blake, Dan Dickau, Jerryd Bayless, Andre Miller, Ray Felton. It was rinse-and-repeat thru many failures.

the Blazer scouting staff had targeted Lillard after his sophomore season at Weber State. Jason Quick wrote about this; so did Chris Haynes IIRC. I saw Chris Haynes on Courtside or whatever one of theos Blazer talk show were called. He basically said Portland was plotting how to get into position to draft Lillard if he came out after his junior year. But Lillard got injured, missed most of the season, and returned for his senior year.

this may have been the primary motivation behind Buchanan trading Gerald Wallace for that 6th pick

I think it's pretty clear Lillard was going to be the pick before Olshey ever entered the picture.

 

[kjironman1]

Almost 90 pages in Fire Stotts and going on 80 pages in Fire Olshey.
Both started years ago.
Nothing is going to happen until the team sells.
That won’t happen until the pandemic is over at the earliest.
Most likely not until the 2023 season when the arena lease loosens up from its Iron Clad grip.
I doubt any person considering buying a team would buy it with those kinds of issues in the way.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Just to reiterate



Neil’s M.O.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

direct from him. Dame was his pick. Decided on well before Olshey was hired. Not saying NO didn’t like Dame, but that pick was decided on before Olshey. PA was prepared to move up to get him, as well

Olshey was still the GM so he still gets credit. If he had a problem with the pick, he would have made his case since it's his resume and legacy.

Just like the idea of CJ Ellebey was driven by the analytics guys.

Olshey has a history of drafting really good guards as you can see by now.

 

[wizenheimer]

If he had a problem with the pick, he would have made his case since it's his resume and legacy.

Olshey would not have been able to overrule Paul Allen, and for that matter, might not have been able to overrule the scouting staff. He'd been in the job less than a month

that's not to say Olshey disagreed with using the 6th pick on Lillard. I mean, the only PG Portland had at the time was Nolan Smith. That would make any other PG attractive

 

[Tince]

We don't disagree. Where we do disagree is that this team should be doing much better than it has.

Agree, we disagree.

Almost every publication had us finishing between 4th-9th out West with Nurk, CJ, and Collins available. We're 6th right now.

I would have almost assured you we'd have a losing record given our roster and injuries. If we finish the season 6th, that would be very good all things considered. In my opinion, of course.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Olshey would not have been able to overrule Paul Allen, and for that matter, might not have been able to overrule the scouting staff. He'd been in the job less than a month

that's not to say Olshey disagreed with using the 6th pick on Lillard. I mean, the only PG Portland had at the time was Nolan Smith. That would make any other PG attractive

If he made a good case as to why they should draft someone else, it's possible they could have gone with someone else.

I have no reason to not give Olshey credit for drafting Damian Lillard.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Agree, we disagree.

Almost every publication had us finishing between 4th-9th out West with Nurk, CJ, and Collins available. We're 6th right now.

I would have almost assured you we'd have a losing record given our roster and injuries. If we finish the season 6th, that would be very good all things considered. In my opinion, of course.

I meant in the macro of Stotts' tenure. We agree that the Blazers are about where they should be in terms of regular season record this season when taking into account the injuries.

The problem is we weren't doing much better when we were healthy, right?

As I've said before, Stotts does better with incomplete rosters than a healthy one. He proves this again to be true. I'll be concerned when we get healthy again.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Olshey was still the GM so he still gets credit. If he had a problem with the pick, he would have made his case since it's his resume and legacy.

Just like the idea of CJ Ellebey was driven by the analytics guys.

Olshey has a history of drafting really good guards as you can see by now.

This is incorrect. Dame was PAs pick long before Olshey.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If he made a good case as to why they should draft someone else, it's possible they could have gone with someone else.

I have no reason to not give Olshey credit for drafting Damian Lillard.

The reason not to give him credit is that PA and the scouting staff had decided Lillard was their guy when Olshey was employed with the Clippers

 

[blazerkor]

If he made a good case as to why they should draft someone else, it's possible they could have gone with someone else.

I have no reason to not give Olshey credit for drafting Damian Lillard.

Good grief, were you following the team at the time? They kept Buchanan's staff on because he was the guy that had determined what the draft would be that year. It was so well documented at the time and an accepted reality that Olshey's first draft was i 2013. Olshey isn't guilty for Meyers but he doesn't get credit for Dame. Olshey was hired thirteen days before that draft by the way. So, please don't give him credit for Dame.

 

[Tince]

I meant in the macro of Stotts' tenure. We agree that the Blazers are about where they should be in terms of regular season record this season when taking into account the injuries.

The problem is we weren't doing much better when we were healthy, right?

As I've said before, Stotts does better with incomplete rosters than a healthy one. He proves this again to be true. I'll be concerned when we get healthy again.

That's a great question and follow up point. The "healthy years" are certainly limited, but I would agree the success rate isn't much different. I believe Stotts in near .500 without Dame available even.

If I understand the point your making, it's that Stotts maybe does above expectations with incomplete rosters but below expectations with a full roster. I think there is a strong case that could be made there.

Of course, I think in general, our success is at or above league wide results for a team with only one below average height all-star. I'd love for us to get a roster that has the components of a championship contender and then determine if the person holding the clipboard can win with that level of talent.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The reason not to give him credit is that PA and the scouting staff had decided Lillard was their guy when Olshey was employed with the Clippers

So if Paul Allen ALSO wanted CJ McCollum, we shouldn't give Olshey any credit?

He has to have a DIFFERENT opinion to get credit? Is this how this works?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Good grief, were you following the team at the time? They kept Buchanan's staff on because he was the guy that had determined what the draft would be that year. It was so well documented at the time and an accepted reality that Olshey's first draft was i 2013. Olshey isn't guilty for Meyers but he doesn't get credit for Dame. Olshey was hired thirteen days before that draft by the way. So, please don't give him credit for Dame.

Of course I followed the team. A lot of people were against drafting Lillard. Many wanted Thomas Robinson or Harrison Barnes. I was there. It was far from a foregone conclusion that we were drafting Lillard.

Olshey's employment is irrelevant. He's a GM. They all have knowledge and info on the players in the draft. He could have been working for another team and still wanted to draft Lillard.

Wait. Why isn't Olshey guilty for drafting Meyers?

Olshey was the GM at the time. Of course he gets credit for drafting Lillard. It's his legacy as much as Paul Allen or anyone else. If he wanted someone else, he could have made the case but didn't.

You can make the argument that we would have drafted Lillard REGARDLESS of Olshey, but to NOT give him credit because Paul Allen wanted Lillard is asinine.

 

[kjironman1]

So if Paul Allen ALSO wanted CJ McCollum, we shouldn't give Olshey any credit?

He has to have a DIFFERENT opinion to get credit? Is this how this works?

To take this position a step further. So Olshey wouldn't be responsible for Dame/CJ back court pairing and their contracts either?

I'm just messing around here but honestly where is the line and who draws it?