Zombie Fire Olshey

[Scalma]

Just to be clear, my harsh opinion of Olshey isn't based on any one incident. Over the course of the last 9 years there has been a string of incidents that made him look like a sleazy used car salesman. Each individual event was relatively minor - but over time it adds up.

The thing about all these “incidents” is we’re only hearing one side, and people just run with it because it supports their narratives about him. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. For example, remember when Kanter claimed Olshey was pressuring him and only gave him 5 minutes to make a decision in free agency? Had Dame not came out and debunked it, people would’ve also ran with that story and taken it as fact.

 

[illmatic99]

https://clutchpoints.com/the-trail-blazers-neil-olshey-problem-is-only-growing-bigger/

Neil really is an asshole. The way he talks down to the media and by extension the fans and then all of the shit in this article. The guy really is a self serving slime ball. If you can't do something for him your just dead to him. Really classless.

oh come on. this is a stretch

 

[Fairly-Hard]

oh come on. this is a stretch

That's where I'm going with this also.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

https://clutchpoints.com/the-trail-blazers-neil-olshey-problem-is-only-growing-bigger/

Neil really is an asshole. The way he talks down to the media and by extension the fans and then all of the shit in this article. The guy really is a self serving slime ball. If you can't do something for him your just dead to him. Really classless.

The story did confirm that it was Portland's choice not to bring Melo back. I wonder if Billups is having more personnel input than Stotts. It does reinforce my opinion that Olshey has always had a haphazard approach to building a team, never had a real vision of what kind of team he wanted to build.

 

[wizenheimer]

notice that I haven't said anything about that clutchpoints article

I will say this, it wasn't just Melo, Matthews, and Ed Davis left hanging. it happened to Robin Lopez too. I also seem to recall Batum saying something like Olshey didn't tell him he'd been traded, it was the assistant GM. Of course, Olshey was probably still pissed off about the hardball Batum's agent played with Portland and Minny

as for Kanter, he said 6 minutes which was an exaggeration. Dame said it was 45 minutes. That's still a real tight deadline for a 10 million dollar decision

 

[blazerkor]

notice that I haven't said anything about that clutchpoints article

I will say this, it wasn't just Melo, Matthews, and Ed Davis left hanging. it happened to Robin Lopez too. I also seem to recall Batum saying something like Olshey didn't tell him he'd been traded, it was the assistant GM. Of course, Olshey was probably still pissed off about the hardball Batum's agent played with Portland and Minny

as for Kanter, he said 6 minutes which was an exaggeration. Dame said it was 45 minutes. That's still a real tight deadline for a 10 million dollar decision

It's not surprising from Olshey. The guy is a tool, if people can't see that then I don't know what their definition of a "good guy" is. Olshey is a self serving egotist and not just some of his actions back up this opinion... all of his public actions do. If you disagree with that assessment, don't tell me I'm being too hard on the guy, give me examples of him not being sleazy.

 

[Scalma]

The story did confirm that it was Portland's choice not to bring Melo back. I wonder if Billups is having more personnel input than Stotts. It does reinforce my opinion that Olshey has always had a haphazard approach to building a team, never had a real vision of what kind of team he wanted to build.

I don’t think billups would’ve taken the job if he didn’t have some say in personnel. He had leverage, I’m sure he could’ve gotten a head coaching job somewhere else, if not this year then next.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

It's not surprising from Olshey. The guy is a tool, if people can't see that then I don't know what their definition of a "good guy" is. Olshey is a self serving egotist and not just some of his actions back up this opinion... all of his public actions do. If you disagree with that assessment, don't tell me I'm being too hard on the guy, give me examples of him not being sleazy.

You could also say the way he handled the Billups hiring fiasco was sleazy as well. So i guess if it's good to point out then we will but if not? Not so much?

 

[blazerkor]

You could also say the way he handled the Billups hiring fiasco was sleazy as well. So i guess if it's good to point out then we will but if not? Not so much?

Oh, I've beaten that one to death. I don't mind the Billups hiring but Olshey's whole "you're going to have to trust us that we did a thorough investigation..." I have huge problems with that. Like I said, you would be hard pressed to find one thing the guy has done that's not totally self serving and sleazy besides gifting players that don't deserve it with huge contracts.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I would not have laughed in his face and I didn't even like Melo being on the team last season. That being said the issue isn't letting him walk it's not returning his call. When ending a business relationship I always do it personally, especially when there weren't hard feelings. So of course I would have taken Melo's call and told him we were going in another way. Wes is the same thing, we're not matching the offer but we can tell him that and Olshey opted to let him twist. That shit stinks of an attitude that if Olshey can't get something out of someone that they're then not worth his time, despite having built a business relationship with him. I hate it that the top representative of our team has those values.

Ainge only half jokingly said he was offended and I think all of us were at least half offended by those remarks by Olshey... and those speak to the bigger problem pointed out in that article. If Olshey's slimy ass doesn't believe in this city as a destination worth going to, then where does that leave us as a team and him as a recruiter for the team. He's either given up or was never all in on trying to recruit high level players who are in or before their prime, to play here.

It's all problematic from my point of view... I don't know why you'd want to give him a pass.

Edit: And he did the same thing to Ed Davis too... not that he didn't re-sign Ed but he left Ed hanging and didn't return his calls. It's Olshey's shitty M.O.

Do you know what Olshey was saying to Melo agent? Olshey seems to have a great relation with agents so I find it unlikely he didn't communicate anything to them. Maybe Melo wanted to come back and Olshey had a reason for not making an offer or not eliminating any options of reaching out to Melo later.

It was reported Olshey told Ed Davis to take the Nets offer so I don't see how you can blame any of that on Olshey.

I'm fine for ripping on Olshey when its deserved (I think he deserves to be fired from the 2016 contracts) but some of the witch hunting with Neil is ridiculous. I'm sure you could look at any of the best GM's off all time such as Jerry West and find similar issues to nitpick if you wanted.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

notice that I haven't said anything about that clutchpoints article

I will say this, it wasn't just Melo, Matthews, and Ed Davis left hanging. it happened to Robin Lopez too. I also seem to recall Batum saying something like Olshey didn't tell him he'd been traded, it was the assistant GM. Of course, Olshey was probably still pissed off about the hardball Batum's agent played with Portland and Minny

as for Kanter, he said 6 minutes which was an exaggeration. Dame said it was 45 minutes. That's still a real tight deadline for a 10 million dollar decision

Do you realize how fast free agency works? Hours into it the majority of the league has agreed to deals. The team has to act very fast. Kanter should have known for weeks what he would accept, the team could offer the tax MLE and that was it, very clear and simple. Kanter agent job is to get a guage of what offers he will have prior to 7/1 so they can be prepared to make decisions immediately.

If Neil has any fault in the Kanter situation it was waiting too long IMO. 45 minutes could have cost the team Hood or another addition.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It's not surprising from Olshey. The guy is a tool, if people can't see that then I don't know what their definition of a "good guy" is. Olshey is a self serving egotist and not just some of his actions back up this opinion... all of his public actions do. If you disagree with that assessment, don't tell me I'm being too hard on the guy, give me examples of him not being sleazy.

I just don't give a crap about this opinion, it's irrelevant to a GM's job performance. I find him fine in press conferences and interviews. Yes I know some may disagree and want a GM who is more of a PR talking head, or makes them feel good, I don't care about that.

Neil has had a great relationship with players and agents IMO. Guys like Kanter, Mo Williams, etc chose Portland because of him.

Neil has made plenty of blunders with stupid signings and some dumb trades, I judge his failings on issues such as that. Not some opinion of his attitude or his preference for valet parking.

 

[blazerkor]

Do you know what Olshey was saying to Melo agent? Olshey seems to have a great relation with agents so I find it unlikely he didn't communicate anything to them. Maybe Melo wanted to come back and Olshey had a reason for not making an offer or not eliminating any options of reaching out to Melo later.

It was reported Olshey told Ed Davis to take the Nets offer so I don't see how you can blame any of that on Olshey.

I'm fine for ripping on Olshey when its deserved (I think he deserves to be fired from the 2016 contracts) but some of the witch hunting with Neil is ridiculous. I'm sure you could look at any of the best GM's off all time such as Jerry West and find similar issues to nitpick if you wanted.

Melo said they wouldn't return his phone calls, Wes said the same thing, it seems like that's how Neil rolls... neither Melo or Wes specified if it was just a personal call or if it was both them and their agents but they said they didn't hear anything from our front office. It's just unprofessional and rude. You have 14 players from the previous season's roster, if one of them wants to talk to you, you could make the time to tell them that you're going another way.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Oh, I've beaten that one to death. I don't mind the Billups hiring but Olshey's whole "you're going to have to trust us that we did a thorough investigation..." I have huge problems with that. Like I said, you would be hard pressed to find one thing the guy has done that's not totally self serving and sleazy besides gifting players that don't deserve it with huge contracts.

Yes I agree Neil and the Blazers screwed this up.

To me its a valid criticism of the organization, but its irrelevant to Neil's primary job duties which is assembling talent on a basketball team.

 

[blazerkor]

I just don't give a crap about this opinion, it's irrelevant to a GM's job performance. I find him fine in press conferences and interviews. Yes I know some may disagree and want a GM who is more of a PR talking head, or makes them feel good, I don't care about that.

Neil has had a great relationship with players and agents IMO. Guys like Kanter, Mo Williams, etc chose Portland because of him.

Neil has made plenty of blunders with stupid signings and some dumb trades, I judge his failings on issues such as that. Not some opinion of his attitude or his preference for valet parking.

It all goes together for me. I look at him as a total package and find that he should have been fired a long time ago and can't stand that he's still here because of his performance and his attitude... for me the attitude that comes from the top mouthpiece for our team is more important than the attitude of any player and plenty of people around here get hung up on players' attitudes.

 

[blazerkor]

Yes I agree Neil and the Blazers screwed this up.

To me its a valid criticism of the organization, but its irrelevant to Neil's primary job duties which is assembling talent on a basketball team.

You know what, if the team was kicking ass and we had the most talented roster year in and year out, I wouldn't love the fact that the dude is a pompous ass but I'd just deal with it... like Krause in Chicago. The fact is that Neil is shit at his main job so that other stuff, that's still his job (talking to media, treating people decently as a figurehead) does pile onto the frustration for me.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Melo said they wouldn't return his phone calls, Wes said the same thing, it seems like that's how Neil rolls... neither Melo or Wes specified if it was just a personal call or if it was both them and their agents but they said they didn't hear anything from our front office. It's just unprofessional and rude. You have 14 players from the previous season's roster, if one of them wants to talk to you, you could make the time to tell them that you're going another way.

So two guys who didn't get contract offers they wanted from the team were disappointed?

Maybe the players are upset with how it happened, but they would've been even more upset if Neil calls and says thanks but no thanks.

Maybe their agents said don't contract us until there is an offer we are busy negotiating at that time. We have no idea how this communication is supposed to work, as others have said we are only hearing one side of the story.

 

[wizenheimer]

Do you realize how fast free agency works?

no, I'm stupid and haven't paid attention for the last 30 years

Hours into it the majority of the league has agreed to deals. The team has to act very fast. Kanter should have known for weeks what he would accept, the team could offer the tax MLE and that was it, very clear and simple. Kanter agent job is to get a guage of what offers he will have prior to 7/1 so they can be prepared to make decisions immediately.

If Neil has any fault in the Kanter situation it was waiting too long IMO. 45 minutes could have cost the team Hood or another addition.

it's obvious what happened: Olshey had Kanter as the priority over Hood and had a standing offer for the MLE. But he was keeping track of Hood. Hood got an offer and used that to leverage Olshey into a deadline for making a counter-offer. So then, Olshey had to call Kanter and attach the Hood deadline as an amendment to the standing offer. Kanter was in discussions with Boston at that time. I'm sure Kanter was a little aggravated by the new deadline to accept Portland's offer, but that's the nature of a competitive market

I was making a smaller point than you want to make: that being that a 45 minute deadline is not a lot better than a 6 minute deadline. Kanter should have known that any offer could be rescinded at any time, and I'm sure Olshey didn't say "we'll give you the MLE and you have all summer to decide"

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You know what, if the team was kicking ass and we had the most talented roster year in and year out, I wouldn't love the fact that the dude is a pompous ass but I'd just deal with it... like Krause in Chicago. The fact is that Neil is shit at his main job so that other stuff, that's still his job (talking to media, treating people decently as a figurehead) does pile onto the frustration for me.

I look at the Blazers 5th and 6th best players right now... its pretty good. I remember the 15 years of never winning in the playoffs, Neil has made a roster better than a lot of those years. Its not only Dame, Neil has put a few great roll players around Dame over the years as well.

If Simons or NAS makes a big leap this year all the sudden we have a very deep team.

It's extremely rare to have a Chicago or contending team, so I don't use that as any kind of measuring stick.

I think Rich Cho, John Nash, Steve Patterson would've been much worse for this organization. So while I don't like Neil as much as Trader Bob and top GM's, I still don't believe he has been a terrible GM.

I'm willing to see how the start of this year goes.

The big problem, is lets say its time to move on from Olshey, I have even less faith Jody will make a better hire than Olshey.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

no, I'm stupid and haven't paid attention for the last 30 years

it's obvious what happened: Olshey had Kanter as the priority over Hood and had a standing offer for the MLE. But he was keeping track of Hood. Hood got an offer and used that to leverage Olshey into a deadline for making a counter-offer. So then, Olshey had to call Kanter and attach the Hood deadline as an amendment to the standing offer. Kanter was in discussions with Boston at that time. I'm sure Kanter was a little aggravated by the new deadline to accept Portland's offer, but that's the nature of a competitive market

I was making a smaller point than you want to make: that being that a 45 minute deadline is not a lot better than a 6 minute deadline. Kanter should have known that any offer could be rescinded at any time, and I'm sure Olshey didn't say "we'll give you the MLE and you have all summer to decide"

I don't know that Kanter was the priority.

From everything I heard I suspect Hood. Hoods agent, and the Blazers thought they would get much more than the tax MLE. So Kanter had priority because Hood didn't appear to be an option. When Hood didnt get those big offers, they decided they would be interested in the Blazers MLE.

Neil putting a time limit on Kanters offer is actually nicer than they had to be, they could've withdrawn it at any time. Any criticism for Neil on this incident is ridiculous IMO.

 

[sheed30]

Haha man some of you guys really got a thing against Neil.

You guys talk about Neil leaving so and so hanging during free agency when you really don’t know the full story.

btw, have you guys never heard stories about Jerry West and how he operated when he was a GM?

How about Riley low balling Wade and leaving him hanging when Wade countered back with a bigger offer, their franchise player, before he left to Chicago.

Danny Ainge not offering Thomas a contract after he played his heart out with a damaged hip.

It’s a business guys, you guys have no clue how things really go down behind closed door.

 

[blazerkor]

I look at the Blazers 5th and 6th best players right now... its pretty good. I remember the 15 years of never winning in the playoffs, Neil has made a roster better than a lot of those years. Its not only Dame, Neil has put a few great roll players around Dame over the years as well.

If Simons or NAS makes a big leap this year all the sudden we have a very deep team.

It's extremely rare to have a Chicago or contending team, so I don't use that as any kind of measuring stick.

I think Rich Cho, John Nash, Steve Patterson would've been much worse for this organization. So while I don't like Neil as much as Trader Bob and top GM's, I still don't believe he has been a terrible GM.

I'm willing to see how the start of this year goes.

The big problem, is lets say its time to move on from Olshey, I have even less faith Jody will make a better hire than Olshey.

A GM should not be able to keep a job for over a decade because they're mediocre but not terrible. To me mediocre at a job only 30 people in the world get to have, equals shitty.

A GM also should not be able to keep their job because of fear that ownership can't find a replacement that's less shitty. There are a ton of good candidates out there that would breathe fresh life into this team... the team could hire a consultant to help with the search if needs be. I don't think fear of the ineptitude of this ownership group should paralyze the team.

Finally when you say 5th or 6th best right now you mean in the West, I'm sure. I don't agree with that I think the Lakers, Jazz, Suns, Warriors, Nuggets and Mavericks are all better than us. The Clippers, Grizzlies and Pelicans could also give us a run for our money. If you're right though and we are 5th or 6th best in the West that means we don't even get HCA and it also means we don't make it out of the first round... again. That shit is unacceptable, why would we keep a GM that leaves us in that holding pattern.

 

[blazerkor]

Haha man some of you guys really got a thing against Neil.

You guys talk about Neil leaving so and so hanging during free agency when you really don’t know the full story.

btw, have you guys never heard stories about Jerry West and how he operated when he was a GM?

How about Riley low balling Wade and leaving him hanging when Wade countered back with a bigger offer, their franchise player, before he left to Chicago.

Danny Ainge not offering Thomas a contract after he played us heart out with a damaged hip.

It’s a business guys, you guys have no clue how things really go down behind closed door.

Everyone of those guys had a ring man... if Neil was getting us chips, he could be as much of an asshole as he wanted but when he sucks at his primary responsibilities, the other shit piles on. You don't get to suck and be arrogant.

 

[sheed30]

I look at the Blazers 5th and 6th best players right now... its pretty good. I remember the 15 years of never winning in the playoffs, Neil has made a roster better than a lot of those years. Its not only Dame, Neil has put a few great roll players around Dame over the years as well.

If Simons or NAS makes a big leap this year all the sudden we have a very deep team.

It's extremely rare to have a Chicago or contending team, so I don't use that as any kind of measuring stick.

I think Rich Cho, John Nash, Steve Patterson would've been much worse for this organization. So while I don't like Neil as much as Trader Bob and top GM's, I still don't believe he has been a terrible GM.

I'm willing to see how the start of this year goes.

The big problem, is lets say its time to move on from Olshey, I have even less faith Jody will make a better hire than Olshey.

Man, hearing the name Rich Cho, John Nash and Steve Patterson makes me cringe.

I wonder what these people bashing Neil thought when those other guys were GM. Probably having a breakdown because there has been worse than Neil

 

[SharpesTriumph]

A GM should not be able to keep a job for over a decade because they're mediocre but not terrible. To me mediocre at a job only 30 people in the world get to have, equals shitty.

A GM also should not be able to keep their job because of fear that ownership can't find a replacement that's less shitty. There are a ton of good candidates out there that would breathe fresh life into this team... the team could hire a consultant to help with the search if needs be. I don't think fear of the ineptitude of this ownership group should paralyze the team.

Finally when you say 5th or 6th best right now you mean in the West, I'm sure. I don't agree with that I think the Lakers, Jazz, Suns, Warriors, Nuggets and Mavericks are all better than us. The Clippers, Grizzlies and Pelicans could also give us a run for our money. If you're right though and we are 5th or 6th best in the West that means we don't even get HCA and it also means we don't make it out of the first round... again. That shit is unacceptable, why would we keep a GM that leaves us in that holding pattern.

I meant the 5th or 6th best Blazer player on paper is pretty strong. I guess it would be Roco, Nance or Nurk. We haven't had talent at the end of the starting lineup or first off the bench like that since the Aldridge Blazers or possibly the WCF Sheed teams.

Most NBA teams don't have a 5th starter as good as ours, so Neil deserves credit for that.

We will have to see how it actually works out during the season.

 

[Hoopguru]

Man, hearing the name Rich Cho, John Nash and Steve Patterson makes me cringe.

I wonder what these people bashing Neil thought when those other guys were GM. Probably having a breakdown because there has been worse than Neil

and thats why Paul and now Jody/Bert keep him in that position because he must objectively meet their goals and expectations. Which are not just, wins and loses or championships.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

and thats why Paul and now Jody/Bert keep him in that position because he must objectively meet their goals and expectations. Which are not just, wins and loses or championships.

Yes, I think the downside risk of a worse GM is a big negative to ownership.

Many fans are so frustrated when a team hasn't contended they want a change because they aren't concerned with the risk of it backfiring and the team going into the lottery. But ownership doesn't want a John Nash Blazers situation where attendance is crap and revenue tanks.

Maybe the team doesn't get an exceptional GM - but they don't get a horrible one either that could turn the franchise into the TWolves.

 

[Scalma]

I meant the 5th or 6th best Blazer player on paper is pretty strong. I guess it would be Roco, Nance or Nurk. We haven't had talent at the end of the starting lineup or first off the bench like that since the Aldridge Blazers or possibly the WCF Sheed teams.

Most NBA teams don't have a 5th starter as good as ours, so Neil deserves credit for that.

We will have to see how it actually works out during the season.

You must’ve missed the memo. Neil doesn’t deserve credit for any of the good players he’s brought in, he got lucky with all of them! However, he DOES deserve criticism for all the bad ones. That’s how this works.

 

[wizenheimer]

You must’ve missed the memo. Neil doesn’t deserve credit for any of the good players he’s brought in, he got lucky with all of them! However, he DOES deserve criticism for all the bad ones. That’s how this works.

you need to name the posters who hold that very position, or it's just a strawman argument

as a certified Olshey basher, I've given him credit for several good things he's done. I think the scale for him is just tilted heavily to the negative, and that many of his good moves had a substantial cost

for instance, I think RoCo has been a good addition and that Nance will probably be a good addition. I'm just aware that the cost to add those two players was Ariza, Jones (who was a bust as a max-MLE signing) and three 1st round picks. Those two players didn't come cheap

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Like this thread, Olshey is a zombie who just won't be killed. But if Chauncey crashes and burns?