Fire Stotts Eventually

[BlazerBeav]

Oh, we’ve noticed.

 

[MickZagger]

We allowed the worst 3pt shooting team to hit 45% of their shots from downtown tonight. Notice how every team "just gets hot" or it "just becomes their night" when they play the Blazers?

Yep. Been saying this for a couple years now. How many times you going to let Mike Muscala shoot open 3’s before you adjust?? Sometimes I’m in awe.

 

[Tince]

I’m probably 90% certain Stotts will be allowed to ride out this season and that’ll be it. And I can NOT wait just simply because I won’t have to read about it anymore.

If you're giving 9:1 odds, I'll take the opposite end of that bet. What do you say?

 

[Darkwebs]

We allowed the worst 3pt shooting team to hit 45% of their shots from downtown tonight. Notice how every team "just gets hot" or it "just becomes their night" when they play the Blazers?

 

[Tince]

Look what Thibs did with an absolute joke of a roster in New York and then look what Terry has done with our roster. We have some really good defenders and we still suck.

Yeah, he lost to a Blazers team who many say has a horrible coach, poor defensive players, a predictable offense, and was missing 2 out of their 3 best players. Time to throw the man a parade!

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, he lost to a Blazers team who many say has a horrible coach, poor defensive players, a predictable offense, and was missing 2 out of their 3 best players. Time to throw the man a parade!

But they play defense!

 

[BlazerBeav]

One thing is clear - whatever they paid Jim Boylen for his defensive consulting was WAY TOO DAMN MUCH.

 

[Tince]

But they play defense!

So I hear!

 

[Tince]

One thing is clear - whatever they paid Jim Boylen for his defensive consulting was WAY TOO DAMN MUCH.

I believe I read a quote from him along the lines of, "I can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit."

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

One thing is clear - whatever they paid Jim Boylen for his defensive consulting was WAY TOO DAMN MUCH.

You know the thing about the horse and the water, right? And I'm not sure if the horse in this case is our coaches or our players.

 

[Labinot41]

"First half"

 

[illmatic99]

"First half"

it's the kind of quote that makes me question WTF terry watches out there sometimes. We gave up wide open shot after wide open shot the entire fourth quarter. And in the third quarter, we gave 0 resistance to straight line drives at the rim. There are multiple plays this game when guys had their back turned to the guy they were guarding WHEN THEY HAD THE BALL. Just inexcusable altogether, and not JUST in the first half.

 

[Natebishop3]

it's the kind of quote that makes me question WTF terry watches out there sometimes. We gave up wide open shot after wide open shot the entire fourth quarter. And in the third quarter, we gave 0 resistance to straight line drives at the rim. There are multiple plays this game when guys had their back turned to the guy they were guarding WHEN THEY HAD THE BALL. Just inexcusable altogether, and not JUST in the first half.

In the interviews after the game he just looks like he has no control over this team anymore.

 

[Natebishop3]

J
V
G

What makes you think that he would succeed in the modern NBA while being out of coaching for so long?

 

[Scalma]

One thing is clear - whatever they paid Jim Boylen for his defensive consulting was WAY TOO DAMN MUCH.

no, what they should have done is hired him full time and put him in charge of the defense. He’s a proven coach that’s always had good defenses wherever he’s been. A two week seminar or whatever it was they did with him wasn’t enough and a joke in itself. Pretty sure he didn’t even get a chance to actually work with any of the players.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I’m probably 90% certain Stotts will be allowed to ride out this season and that’ll be it. And I can NOT wait just simply because I won’t have to read about it anymore.

Glad you're more upset about reading about the performance of the coach than the actual performance of the coach.

Shilling.

 

[calvin natt]

Glad you're more upset about reading about the performance of the coach than the actual performance of the coach.

Shilling.

Its boring. Its constant. It has gotten old. Fire the man, put us out of our misery. Not only will the Blazers then win a championship, we won't have to read about Terry Stotts anymore.

 

[e_blazer]

no, what they should have done is hired him full time and put him in charge of the defense. He’s a proven coach that’s always had good defenses wherever he’s been. A two week seminar or whatever it was they did with him wasn’t enough and a joke in itself. Pretty sure he didn’t even get a chance to actually work with any of the players.

I'll bet that if Boylen was told he was going to get to coach defense for a team starting Melo and Kanter and without Roco, DJJ banged up, Hood out and, of course no Nurk, CJ or Collins, he'd just be super thrilled at the prospect.

 

[illmatic99]

I'll bet that if Boylen was told he was going to get to coach defense for a team starting Melo and Kanter and without Roco, DJJ banged up, Hood out and, of course no Nurk, CJ or Collins, he'd just be super thrilled at the prospect.

come on, man. our defense has been pitiful all year, even before the injuries. it speaks volumes to me when the preseason press conferences where half our team claimed they aspired to be in the middle of the league in defense, and top 5 in offense. The expectations themselves are so low.

 

[Minstrel]

come on, man. our defense has been pitiful all year, even before the injuries. it speaks volumes to me when the preseason press conferences where half our team claimed they aspired to be in the middle of the league in defense, and top 5 in offense. The expectations themselves are so low.

The expectations were low because the personnel is poor, when it comes to defense. With Hood struggling, the only players you could expect to be good defenders in a modern defense are Covington and Trent. DJJ and Giles were projects you might hope could be good defenders in significant minutes. Nurkic is a fish out of water in a modern, switching defense but at least is a good defender near the rim.

This is not the personnel, especially when matched with an undersized and overall poor defensive backcourt and fairly high-minute reserves who are awful at defense (Melo and Kanter), that anyone should have expected to be molded into a strong defensive unit. Aspiring for average was setting expectations correctly for a ceiling--there was a good chance that even average was aiming too high.

I don't think Stotts is a great coach, but scapegoating him for a bad defense when he's been given bad defensive personnel isn't particularly reasonable. I really don't care if he's fired or not, but I'm going to place the blame for the defense where it belongs: on the roster construction.

 

[e_blazer]

come on, man. our defense has been pitiful all year, even before the injuries. it speaks volumes to me when the preseason press conferences where half our team claimed they aspired to be in the middle of the league in defense, and top 5 in offense. The expectations themselves are so low.

I'm well aware of the fact that the defense has continually sucked so far this season. That said, expecting improvement last night, without RoCo and with DJJ limping around on one leg, you were expecting a defensive masterpiece? The defense has been sporadic lately...a good half in the first half followed by a bad one against the Knicks, a horrible first half against the Hawks followed by an excellent one. Last night was just continuously bad. Personnel makes a difference.

Just to be clear, if things don't get turned around on D this year, I have no problem changing Stotts out after the season for a more defensive-minded coach. If you want that to be successful, it's going to have to include some significant roster changes as well, which is why trying to do it mid-season isn't very likely to happen.

 

[blazerkor]

I'm well aware of the fact that the defense has continually sucked so far this season. That said, expecting improvement last night, without RoCo and with DJJ limping around on one leg, you were expecting a defensive masterpiece? The defense has been sporadic lately...a good half in the first half followed by a bad one against the Knicks, a horrible first half against the Hawks followed by an excellent one. Last night was just continuously bad. Personnel makes a difference.

Just to be clear, if things don't get turned around on D this year, I have no problem changing Stotts out after the season for a more defensive-minded coach. If you want that to be successful, it's going to have to include some significant roster changes as well, which is why trying to do it mid-season isn't very likely to happen.

The answer isn't to remove Terry because that is not a possibility without removing the real problem who is Olshey. If Olshey is replaced by someone who is focused on turning the talent on this roster into the best team possible, of course that new GM fires Stotts and of course that new GM realizes that the Dame/CJ experiment has been a failure that has cost both guys (who are incredible offensive talents) years of their careers.

If we fired Stotts and replaced him with a coach willing to encourage defense, offense and basketball in which the whole team was engaged the entire game and we cashed in CJ for the best value and fit possible, (possibly along with other moves that maximize Dame's potential) then this team could contend. I wish Oshey were capable of those things but he's just a far too loyal snake oil salesman.

 

[illmatic99]

The expectations were low because the personnel is poor, when it comes to defense. With Hood struggling, the only players you could expect to be good defenders in a modern defense are Covington and Trent. DJJ and Giles were projects you might hope could be good defenders in significant minutes. Nurkic is a fish out of water in a modern, switching defense but at least is a good defender near the rim.

This is not the personnel, especially when matched with an undersized and overall poor defensive backcourt and fairly high-minute reserves who are awful at defense (Melo and Kanter), that anyone should have expected to be molded into a strong defensive unit. Aspiring for average was setting expectations correctly for a ceiling--there was a good chance that even average was aiming too high.

I don't think Stotts is a great coach, but scapegoating him for a bad defense when he's been given bad defensive personnel isn't particularly reasonable. I really don't care if he's fired or not, but I'm going to place the blame for the defense where it belongs: on the roster construction.

Ya the personnel is shaky, but when teams like Memphis, Houston, Atlanta, and NY are top 10 in defense about a fourth of the way into the season -- with their respective rosters-- it should give people pause. We just had 6 days off and came out with no focus or attention to detail. This isn't new. I think Terry can't coach defense and doesn't hold his players accountable for mistakes. And mind you, these are FUNDAMENTAL errors that any HS coach worth a damn would call his players out for. Players seem to come to our team and forget just basic stuff, and there are no repercussions. I really question how much they really scout or prepare for opponents and tendencies.

Mike Muscala shoots. That's all he does, yet we gave him 8 open shots from three last night. We let a team with ONE above average offensive player score 125 points. OKC's offensive rating jumped from last to third worst in one game against our system.

You don't need all NBA defenders to get an average defensive team, provided you have a system to take advantage of their strengths. We don't. We don't adapt, we don't prepare, we don't hold players accountable. And none of this is new-- we've seen the same for 5 seasons of the Dame era.

But, I'm squarely on the blame Terry mindset this season.

 

[Minstrel]

This isn't new. I think Terry can't coach defense and doesn't hold his players accountable for mistakes.

As a counter, when the team last had decent defensive personnel (Wes Matthew, Nic Batum, Robin Lopez with a reasonably engaged LaMarcus Aldridge), they had a top-ten defense.

And that isn't juggernaut defensive personnel--that's three good/excellent defenders, one competent one and then a decent number of sieves (a young Lillard, Barton, Crabbe, McCollum and Affalo who has never been particularly good defensively). To me, that says that if you give Stotts at least the fundamental tools for a solid defense (a couple of good defensive wings, a good defensive center and one more okay defender) he can produce a strong defense.

 

[illmatic99]

Just as a sidebar, I've been watching a lot of OKC/San Antonio/Charlotte this year with a bunch of their players on my fantasy team (SGA, Keldon Johnson, Patty/ PJ Washington, etc). It's just astonishing to me how much more engaged players are on the defensive end than anyone on our squad. And none of these teams have players you'd call defensive stoppers. The Spurs have a bunch of second and third year players playing heavy minutes, yet are 8th in DRTG. Charlotte has a starting lineup of DeVonte Graham and Terry Rozier at guard, with no real long wings. Yet they are 13th. OKC has SGA, George Hill, and a ton of youth, yet they're 8 spots ahead of us in defensive rating.

 

[illmatic99]

As a counter, when the team last had decent defensive personnel (Wes Matthew, Nic Batum, Robin Lopez with a reasonably engaged LaMarcus Aldridge), they had a top-ten defense.

And that isn't juggernaut defensive personnel--that's three good/excellent defenders, one competent one and then a decent number of sieves (a young Lillard, Barton, Crabbe, McCollum and Affalo who has never been particularly good defensively). To me, that says that if you give Stotts at least the fundamental tools for a solid defense (a couple of good defensive wings, a good defensive center and one more okay defender) he can produce a strong defense.

The league has changed since 2015, and Terry still has not adapted. Did you watch our game against GS? We kept employing the same drop coverage he had Rolo do 6 yrs ago, and Steph dropped 62 on us. We didn't bother throwing a single double team at him.

And as far as good defensive wings, a defensive center, we have those right now in our starting lineup, and have Trent coming off the bench.

Sorry don't mean to be argumentative, but this really grates me.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't think Stotts is a great coach, but scapegoating him for a bad defense when he's been given bad defensive personnel isn't particularly reasonable. I really don't care if he's fired or not, but I'm going to place the blame for the defense where it belongs: on the roster construction.

I think Portland could probably scheme their way to a little better defense; like not consistently leaving corner-3's open as an example. But yeah, there's only so much a scheme can accomplish when the tools aren't there.

Olshey has sucked at roster construction most off-seasons. He completely ignored defense and rebounding before the 2019-20 season and put together another shitty bench and poorly balanced roster. It looks like he over-corrected toward defense before this season, but again, there are holes in the roster. Portland is always going to gave problems on defense when Dame & CJ combine for over 70 minutes a game; then add in major minutes for Kanter & Melo....uh oh

the biggest problem, IMO, is that there are no real 2-way players except for maybe Trent. Guys who can be consistent on offense while providing good defense at the other end. Too many one-dimensional players that leave one end of the floor at a disadvantage

 

[Minstrel]

The league has changed since 2015, and Terry still has not adapted. And as far as good defensive wings, a defensive center, we have those right now in our starting lineup, and have Trent coming off the bench.

Sorry don't mean to be argumentative, but this really grates me.

Debate is good, no need to apologize for that. And the way the league has changed has reduced the value of Nurkic's defense--he would have been a great defensive asset in any era before this one, as a solid post defender and rim presence. However, he's not athletic and laterally mobile enough to handle perimeter players on switches, which limits how Stotts can play screen and rolls (which are, obviously, the basis for pretty much all offense today). Stotts gets pilloried for drop coverages that allow perimeter players to get free on screens, but what should he be doing? Having Nurkic aggressively show and then have to dance with an athletic 6'6'' wing? Stotts has a center who has to drop when involved in the pick-and-roll and guards who routinely die on screens (which is an effort thing, not something a coach can help them with)--so of course the defense gets killed by teams who have the shooting and play-making to efficiently run that kind of offense. Defenses can target players to isolate with screens--involving Lillard's man or McCollum's man in a screen and roll with Nurkic's man yields no good outcome, no matter what tactic you employ. That's essentially the "math" of the situation--it doesn't add up, no matter who the coach is, IMO.

 

[illmatic99]

Debate is good, no need to apologize for that. And the way the league has changed has reduced the value of Nurkic's defense--he would have been a great defensive asset in any era before this one, as a solid post defender and rim presence. However, he's not athletic and laterally mobile enough to handle perimeter players on switches, which limits how Stotts can play screen and rolls (which are, obviously, the basis for pretty much all offense today). Stotts gets pilloried for drop coverages that allow perimeter players to get free on screens, but what should he be doing? Having Nurkic aggressively show and then have to dance with an athletic 6'6'' wing? Stotts has a center who has to drop when involved in the pick-and-roll and guards who routinely die on screens (which is an effort thing, not something a coach can help them with)--so of course the defense gets killed by teams who have the shooting and play-making to efficiently run that kind of offense. Defenses can target players to isolate with screens--involving Lillard's man or McCollum's man in a screen and roll with Nurkic's man yields no good outcome, no matter what tactic you employ. That's essentially the "math" of the situation--it doesn't add up, no matter who the coach is, IMO.

I'm not asking for him to always show-- there are obviously matchups against whom that defense would be detrimental. Hell, Kanter should almost always drop, but Nurk did have some success in trapping unsuspecting guards at times.

I'm asking for versatility, adaptability. For example, we played zone nearly every possession vs NY. It worked in the first half against them but they figured out the holes and we started making errors on the backline leading to open shots in the second half. Then what did we do vs OKC the next day? Played the EXACT SAME DEFENSE. SGA is a much more dynamic guard than anyone on NY and has an unstoppable first step. He got into the seams repeatedly last night and we did nothing to change that.

But it goes deeper than just game to game coverage. It's Terry's choice of lineups (why did it take Nurk going down for him to realize he shouldn't play Kanter/Melo together? we had been pointing out the problems of that duo two weeks after the season started), the lack of in-game changes (how many times have we been burned the same way for entire games), or how he doesn't use players to their strengths (DJJ was amazing in zones last year, yet we only started applying it in the NY game this week), etc etc.

It also really is embarrassing also when opposing announcers (Sean Elliot/ Dominique Wilkins/ Clyde, etc) openly laugh at our defensive coverage.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not asking for him to always show-- there are obviously matchups against whom that defense would be detrimental. Hell, Kanter should almost always drop, but Nurk did have some success in trapping unsuspecting guards at times.

I'm not saying that the only other option is to always have Nurkic show. In fact, I think mixing things up is probably the only thing the Blazers can do. My point was that there isn't a tactic that turns bad defenders (and I mean that in context of what largely kills the Blazers--it's not post-ups, it's shooters) into a good defense. They don't have the roster for "versatility." They can mix up coverages from a group of bad choices, but smart offenses can probe and see what the Blazers are doing and break it, because there is no answer to good offense with bad defenders.

Could a better coach improve the defense slightly at the margins? I'm sure that's possible. Could a better coach turn this defensive personnel into a top-15/top-10 defense? I think that's not possible. I think that at full strength, playing at maximum efficiency, they could muster a defense between 15 and 20. But they're not playing at full strength, so I don't think even the best defensive coach would get a lot more out of them. Maybe a little more.