Fire Stotts Eventually

[Tince]

You realize all this says it's people aren't likely to outright bet on Neil Olshey specifically firing Stotts soon, right?

Kinda.

I believe it says they think other GMs are more likely to fire their coach before Olshey fires Stotts. Which is interesting on multiple fronts.

 

[hoopsjock]

Interesting to see names above Stotts who have been praised in the past by the never-Stotts crowd.

I think people feel much more strongly that Stotts should go more than they do about a quality guy to replace him.

Budenholzer and Malone both made a conference Finals. That gives them a lifetime pass according to the always-Stotts crowd.

See how that works both ways?

 

[e_blazer]

Budenholzer and Malone both made a conference Finals. That gives them a lifetime pass according to the always-Stotts crowd.

See how that works both ways?

Is there an “always Stotts” crowd? I don’t recall anyone posting anything saying he gets his job in perpetuity. I’m in the “you don’t change coaches in the middle of a pandemic-shortened season, especially when the team is overachieving while missing two critical starters, because that would be fricking stupid considering the new coach would have zero practice time to implement his new system and he’d be likely to be only an interim coach anyway because no sane good coach is going to walk into a job like that when the current GM’s neck is also likely to get chopped if the team underperforms the rest of the season” crowd.

 

[Natebishop3]

Is there an “always Stotts” crowd? I don’t recall anyone posting anything saying he gets his job in perpetuity. I’m in the “you don’t change coaches in the middle of a pandemic-shortened season, especially when the team is overachieving while missing two critical starters, because that would be fricking stupid considering the new coach would have zero practice time to implement his new system and he’d be likely to be only an interim coach anyway because no sane good coach is going to walk into a job like that when the current GM’s neck is also likely to get chopped if the team underperforms the rest of the season” crowd.

We have had a pretty cake season so far, and now that we're in a tough stretch against playoff teams, we're getting spanked pretty hard. We could very easily lose 4 of our next 5 games. How will people feel about Stotts if that happens?

 

[e_blazer]

We have had a pretty cake season so far, and now that we're in a tough stretch against playoff teams, we're getting spanked pretty hard. We could very easily lose 4 of our next 5 games. How will people feel about Stotts if that happens?

There are 4 games remaining before the All-Star break: at the Lakers, and home vs. Hornets, Warriors and Kings. I’m not worried about losing all four of those games. A lot of fans want Stotts gone for varying reasons and I don’t think the Blazers’ record in those four games is going to make a difference in how those fans feel about him. I also don’t think that those fans’ feelings about Stotts address anything about what I said in my post about why now is not the time to make a coaching change.

 

[Scalma]

The main question when it comes to Stotts is what will it take for him to actually get fired? It’s probably too early to make that call right now, but if he doesn’t get the team deep in the playoffs, especially if he has a relatively healthy roster, someone’s gotta go. Otherwise what are we doing here? I’m tired of hearing how we’re in the playoffs every year. Half the conference makes it in, it’s not that grand of an accomplishment and we’re past the point of it being the primary objective.

 

[hoopsjock]

Is there an “always Stotts” crowd? I don’t recall anyone posting anything saying he gets his job in perpetuity. I’m in the “you don’t change coaches in the middle of a pandemic-shortened season, especially when the team is overachieving while missing two critical starters, because that would be fricking stupid considering the new coach would have zero practice time to implement his new system and he’d be likely to be only an interim coach anyway because no sane good coach is going to walk into a job like that when the current GM’s neck is also likely to get chopped if the team underperforms the rest of the season” crowd.

You seem to have missed that being a play on his "never-Stotts" comment.

 

[Natebishop3]

There are 4 games remaining before the All-Star break: at the Lakers, and home vs. Hornets, Warriors and Kings. I’m not worried about losing all four of those games. A lot of fans want Stotts gone for varying reasons and I don’t think the Blazers’ record in those four games is going to make a difference in how those fans feel about him. I also don’t think that those fans’ feelings about Stotts address anything about what I said in my post about why now is not the time to make a coaching change.

I was addressing your point about the team overachieving with CJ and Nurk out. That point might come into question as we fall close to .500.

 

[Natebishop3]

The main question when it comes to Stotts is what will it take for him to actually get fired? It’s probably too early to make that call right now, but if he doesn’t get the team deep in the playoffs, especially if he has a relatively healthy roster, someone’s gotta go. Otherwise what are we doing here? I’m tired of hearing how we’re in the playoffs every year. Half the conference makes it in, it’s not that grand of an accomplishment and we’re past the point of it being the primary objective.

I don't think he gets fired until either Olshey is gone, the team gets sold, or Dame decides he wants him gone (which won't happen.)

 

[e_blazer]

The main question when it comes to Stotts is what will it take for him to actually get fired? It’s probably too early to make that call right now, but if he doesn’t get the team deep in the playoffs, especially if he has a relatively healthy roster, someone’s gotta go. Otherwise what are we doing here? I’m tired of hearing how we’re in the playoffs every year. Half the conference makes it in, it’s not that grand of an accomplishment and we’re past the point of it being the primary objective.

Stotts knows he's on the hot seat this season. All you have to do is watch some of his post-game interviews to know he's feeling the stress. I think Olshey is better at hiding his emotions than Terry, and he doesn't get the same amount of public exposure, but he has to know that after a couple of years of big spending and making roster moves designed to contend, his job is also on the line. I think it's make or break for both of them. If the Blazers get healthy and make a run in the playoffs (certainly have to win 1 and likely 2 rounds), then I think that they get to keep their jobs. If not, it's going to be time for some new blood at both positions. I have no objection to changing coaches based on this year's performance. I just think making the change now would be a poor decision.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't see any weight to the "don't fire Stotts mid-season" narrative

but that's because I don't see anything significant that Portland would be risking. I mean, what is the ceiling for this team this season? Sure looks like it's Portland making the playoffs, likely without HCA, losing their 1st round pick in a strong draft, and then getting boat-raced by a true contender, probably in the 1st round. I don't see enough value in that "upside" to worry about risking it

I think Portland needs significant changes. I think Olshey should be fired and Stotts should be fired and CJ should be traded. I don't really care what order that happens in, but it probably requires the soap opera actor to be given his walking papers first

right now, Portland owns 4 wins against teams with winning records, and two of those came against Philly, a team they won't meet in the playoffs. They have only beaten 2 Western Conference playoff teams and those two wins came in the first 8 days of the season

 

[Sheldon Shape]

We have had a pretty cake season so far, and now that we're in a tough stretch against playoff teams, we're getting spanked pretty hard. We could very easily lose 4 of our next 5 games. How will people feel about Stotts if that happens?

He doesn't have enough talent. He has injuries. There's a pandemic. Players aren't listening to him.

 

[e_blazer]

I was addressing your point about the team overachieving with CJ and Nurk out. That point might come into question as we fall close to .500.

With the current roster that's available to play, this team is a .500 squad at best. Without Dame, they'd be a bottom-feeder team. Being in 5th spot is definitely overachieving, especially when most of the wins that account for that position occurred after Nurk and CJ went down with injuries. But my main point is that even if the Blazers end up going on a losing streak, now is not the time to change coaches. The primary reason is that the Blazers just aren't going to get really good quality coaching candidates mid-season and with everyone knowing that a change in GMs is also a likely outcome after the season. The new GM is going to want to pick his own head coach.

 

[Natebishop3]

Stotts knows he's on the hot seat this season.

Is he though? The dude gets a built in get-out-of-jail-free card every year because someone is injured. And with CJ and Nurk and Collins out, I don't think the dude is even remotely on the hot seat. I would be shocked if they fired him.

 

[e_blazer]

You seem to have missed that being a play on his "never-Stotts" comment.

Yes I did, but it also gave me an opening to make the case that I've been wanting to make. Your post gave me a nice segue to that, so thanks!

 

[Natebishop3]

With the current roster that's available to play, this team is a .500 squad at best. Without Dame, they'd be a bottom-feeder team. Being in 5th spot is definitely overachieving, especially when most of the wins that account for that position occurred after Nurk and CJ went down with injuries. But my main point is that even if the Blazers end up going on a losing streak, now is not the time to change coaches. The primary reason is that the Blazers just aren't going to get really good quality coaching candidates mid-season and with everyone knowing that a change in GMs is also a likely outcome after the season. The new GM is going to want to pick his own head coach.

But that was really my point. I think we're starting to come back to earth and will be closer to the .500 that we probably deserve. We got a few nice wins while CJ and Nurk were out, but overall we beat up on some really crappy teams. I don't think the team has been overachieving, I think we just had an easy schedule. Now that the schedule is tougher, we're really getting exposed. But Stotts still has the built in excuse of the injuries.

 

[e_blazer]

Is he though? The dude gets a built in get-out-of-jail-free card every year because someone is injured. And with CJ and Nurk and Collins out, I don't think the dude is even remotely on the hot seat. I would be shocked if they fired him.

At this point all we have is our own opinions on that. Mine is that Stotts and Olshey are joined at the hip. They float or sink together. I can't imagine a scenario where Jody Allen and the Vulcans are willing to continue feeding the huge dollars into the team that they have the last couple of seasons and being happy with being also-rans year after year. The injuries are a part of the game, but they don't give coaches and GMs a continual get out of jail free card. Good coaches and GMs find moves and adjustments to make to remain competitive. So far, I'd say neither Stotts or Olshey has done anything in that regards.

 

[e_blazer]

I don't see any weight to the "don't fire Stotts mid-season" narrative

but that's because I don't see anything significant that Portland would be risking. I mean, what is the ceiling for this team this season? Sure looks like it's Portland making the playoffs, likely without HCA, losing their 1st round pick in a strong draft, and then getting boat-raced by a true contender, probably in the 1st round. I don't see enough value in that "upside" to worry about risking it

I think Portland needs significant changes. I think Olshey should be fired and Stotts should be fired and CJ should be traded. I don't really care what order that happens in, but it probably requires the soap opera actor to be given his walking papers first

right now, Portland owns 4 wins against teams with winning records, and two of those came against Philly, a team they won't meet in the playoffs. They have only beaten 2 Western Conference playoff teams and those two wins came in the first 8 days of the season

What kind of quality coaching and GM candidates do you think that you're going to get mid-season? Philly is looking pretty smart for waiting until the off-season to grab Morey and Doc Rivers. We need a move like that.

 

[e_blazer]

But that was really my point. I think we're starting to come back to earth and will be closer to the .500 that we probably deserve. We got a few nice wins while CJ and Nurk were out, but overall we beat up on some really crappy teams. I don't think the team has been overachieving, I think we just had an easy schedule. Now that the schedule is tougher, we're really getting exposed. But Stotts still has the built in excuse of the injuries.

Stotts has a built-in reality of injuries. I'm absolutely certain he'd prefer a reality of having Nurk and CJ available to play and be judged on the results the team is able to achieve with their near-full roster. Getting judged on message boards by people assuming what the team would do when healthy isn't much of a measuring stick.

 

[wizenheimer]

What kind of quality coaching and GM candidates do you think that you're going to get mid-season? Philly is looking pretty smart for waiting until the off-season to grab Morey and Doc Rivers. We need a move like that.

fire the coach hire an interim coach, then hire the next HC in the off-season. That's how Stotts got his job....karma

 

[riverman]

Budenholzer and Malone both made a conference Finals. That gives them a lifetime pass according to the always-Stotts crowd.

See how that works both ways?

In fairness I don't think you speak for the Stotts fans on the board....just saying. You can be 100% supportive of a coach and not actually melt down if he loses his job....might want to make that part of the narrative. What is a "lifetime pass" anyway?

 

[e_blazer]

fire the coach hire an interim coach, then hire the next HC in the off-season. That's how Stotts got his job....karma

You'd also have to fire Olshey because he's absolutely NOT going to ax Stotts while the team is still competitive and still has the support of Dame, CJ, & Nurk. Firing both Stotts and Olshey mid-season and hiring interim guys would be a total chump move that loser franchises pull off. I see no way that happens unless Stotts loses the support of the team. I totally get that you and others around here see Stotts and Olshey as the primary obstacles to the team getting better. That may be the case. I don't have any allegiance to either of them at this point, but if the Blazers are to make such major changes, they need to do it in a logical manner that is designed to get the best talent available to come to Portland and take those jobs. That's only going to happen in an off-season.

 

[hoopsjock]

In fairness I don't think you speak for the Stotts fans on the board....just saying. You can be 100% supportive of a coach and not actually melt down if he loses his job....might want to make that part of the narrative. What is a "lifetime pass" anyway?

It was a joke based off Tince saying the opposite, whoosh.

 

[riverman]

I would like for us to bring back DV from the Wolves bench and let him be our defensive coordinator again

 

[wizenheimer]

You'd also have to fire Olshey because..........

the reasons are many and I'm all for firing him...have been for 5 years

but your fear of interim replacements is misplaced in my view. I'll remind you that it was an interim GM, Chad Buchanan, who traded Crash for the 6th pick, and it was his scouting department that identified Lillard as the #1 target for that 6th pick before Olshey ever arrived. Portland probably wouldn't have Lillard if it wasn't for an interim GM

 

[riverman]

the reasons are many and I'm all for firing him...have been for 5 years

but your fear of interim replacements is misplaced in my view. I'll remind you that it was an interim GM, Chad Buchanan, who traded Crash for the 6th pick, and it was his scouting department that identified Lillard as the #1 target for that 6th pick before Olshey ever arrived. Portland probably wouldn't have Lillard if it wasn't for an interim GM

There's a big difference between "fear" and disinterest. I'm not afraid of new coaches in Portland...have seen plenty but I'm not interested in blowing up the front office now with a loyal and solid group of Blazers under contract that are going through an injury riddled season. This season is challenging for everyone with the pandemic and no crowds first of all....the NBA could easily be shut down...for these guys to show up and put in the work to entertain us is something I am really grateful for to help me get through the winter of lockdown. Draft picks are crap shoots...Chad Buchanon lucked out trading Crash...he wasn't a great interim GM in my view...Olshey has done a whole lot more to keep the team in contention after the Roy Oden era.

 

[Natebishop3]

There's a big difference between "fear" and disinterest. I'm not afraid of new coaches in Portland...have seen plenty but I'm not interested in blowing up the front office now with a loyal and solid group of Blazers under contract that are going through an injury riddled season. This season is challenging for everyone with the pandemic and no crowds first of all....the NBA could easily be shut down...for these guys to show up and put in the work to entertain us is something I am really grateful for to help me get through the winter of lockdown. Draft picks are crap shoots...Chad Buchanon lucked out trading Crash...he wasn't a great interim GM in my view...Olshey has done a whole lot more to keep the team in contention after the Roy Oden era.

Last season was an injury riddled season as well. At what point do you stop being able to use that excuse? Nurk and Collins were injured most of last season. They're going to be injured for most of this season. That's on the GM for continually putting faith in those two guys as being a part of our rotation.

At some point we have used up all of Dame's prime counting on a bunch of guys who can't stay healthy, and a coach who is extremely mediocre.

 

[blazerkor]

There's a big difference between "fear" and disinterest. I'm not afraid of new coaches in Portland...have seen plenty but I'm not interested in blowing up the front office now with a loyal and solid group of Blazers under contract that are going through an injury riddled season. This season is challenging for everyone with the pandemic and no crowds first of all....the NBA could easily be shut down...for these guys to show up and put in the work to entertain us is something I am really grateful for to help me get through the winter of lockdown. Draft picks are crap shoots...Chad Buchanon lucked out trading Crash...he wasn't a great interim GM in my view...Olshey has done a whole lot more to keep the team in contention after the Roy Oden era.

Wait, we've been in contention... have you really felt like we've been in contention for one moment under the Olshey/Stotts administration? Maybe it seems like we have been because Dame is so great that we should have been but we haven't. Also it wasn't Olshey that brought in the current bedrock of this franchise. Sure he was just hired but the decision had been made by Buchanan and his staff to draft Dame.

 

[riverman]

Wait, we've been in contention... have you really felt like we've been in contention for one moment under the Olshey/Stotts administration? Maybe it seems like we have been because Dame is so great that we should have been but we haven't. Also it wasn't Olshey that brought in the current bedrock of this franchise. Sure he was just hired but the decision had been made by Buchanan and his staff to draft Dame.

yes....getting to the western conf finals is contending...in my view making the playoffs is contending and we've been consistant at that...we weren't under the Chad Buchanon era....or Larry Miller era
I don't expect to win a championship this season nor last but do expect to see us give it a hell of a try. Until superstar stacked teams stop occuring those teams are going to win most championships...I accept that but it also makes the prospect of upsetting them much more exciting..I love the Dame era of Blazer basketball and Stotts is part of that....I've listened to his detractors since he signed with the team.....they have been very consistent in doubting a player's coach was the right system for success....that's the real issue here...if you don't like that...you will not like Stotts at all.

 

[Minstrel]

My position: the team should fire Stotts (and Olshey) as soon as they've identified replacements they believe will be better. That could be a veteran coach or an up-and-comer. But they shouldn't fire people until they have some idea of where they're going next--I want the franchise to operate with a plan, not by the seat of their pants.