Fire Stotts Eventually

[Tince]

I have told you before that I respect your loyalist point of view. I just think it has no place in the business world and especially in the highly competitive business of professional sports. Winning a title does take more than a coaching change and while a I agree with you that a coach doesn't win a title, he surely can lose titles, games, first round playoff series' and so forth. For the record my first desire isn't to get rid of Stotts first, it's to get rid of Olshey. A new GM can make a decision on what will provide the chemistry and health it takes to win a championship. For the record it didn't take luck for Jordan's Bulls to win championships and it didn't take luck for the Shaq/Kobe chips either.

I actualy this this aspect is far too often overlooked. We, the fans, all assume the owners main goal is to win a championship. I would venture a guess that rarely is a championship the owners #1 priority, because it is afterall, a business. Paul Allen would've been much further on the win-at-all-cost end of things, but I'm not sure Jody isn't ok with McGowen and Olshey running a team that makes a profit, is respectable on/off the court, and collecting her check.

If Jody is ok with it, then she'll be ok with McGowen keeping Olshey around, who will then be ok keeping Stotts around. It starts at the top for sure.

 

[kjironman1]

You're right, it is just conjecture based on a source more reliable that anyone in this forum. It's also based on that fact that CJ is being overpaid for his contribution to the success of this team.

I am also not in any way saying you are wrong. You may very well be correct. I also happen to think CJ is being paid as much as he will ever get. I doubt he will get that contract or comparable again. At least not here.
My knee jerk emotional reaction gets directed at Quick. The guy makes my skin crawl. He might be correct as well but it's gonna be a cold day in Hell before i actually say Jason Quick is right about something without questioning everything about it and looking at his motive for writing it. I also will never spend a dime to read anything he writes or anything in the rag that chooses to publish what he writes.

 

[kjironman1]

I actualy this this aspect is far too often overlooked. We, the fans, all assume the owners main goal is to win a championship. I would venture a guess that rarely is a championship the owners #1 priority, because it is afterall, a business. Paul Allen would've been much further on the win-at-all-cost end of things, but I'm not sure Jody isn't ok with McGowen and Olshey running a team that makes a profit, is respectable on/off the court, and collecting her check.

If Jody is ok with it, then she'll be ok with McGowen keeping Olshey around, who will then be ok keeping Stotts around. It starts at the top for sure.

Fire Jody Allen!

 

[riverman]

You're right, it is just conjecture based on a source more reliable that anyone in this forum. It's also based on that fact that CJ is being overpaid for his contribution to the success of this team.

There are several Blazers who work for the organization or have in the past that I consider very reliable and are forum members here.....and as to CJ being overpaid....that's a forum opinion as well.
Holybackboard, HCP and others.worked closely with the staff and organization...there is and always has been a contingency of forum members who are not supportive of the front office and staff or ownership....and that's fine...but it's not an absolute or a fact that firing the coach would bring success.....I think it would create many years of playoff drought to bail on Dame at this point in his career.....I'm old....I like seeing us in the mix now and for the foreseeable future of the Dame era. To me there's nothing desperate about our roster and franchise at all....that era left with Raymond Felton

 

[hoopsjock]

1. I don't think I called anyone an idiot, I think I was respectful of those who have a different view point.
2. The statement along the lines of, "we can't win a championship with Stotts" has been made many times as a reason to fire him; so it is logical to wonder if anyone can, isn't it?
3. I'm not sure what you mean by "a coach who does his job." - Stotts job is to coach, it appers to me he's coaching. Now, do you like the way he coaches? I would guess your answer is no. No liking his style is not the same as saying he doesn't coach.

I'm curious why you spend so little energy on why we can't build a championship roster vs belaboring the coaching issue.

I'd like to see this team win a championship. Until we have a GM in place who can build that championship roster, changing coaches feels like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Again, if we do want to change coaches, that's fine with me, I just won't anticipate a major change in outcome.

Cause I actually think the personnel is better than the performance the last two seasons,even including the injuries, and would like to see what this roster could do with a coach who doesn't just get by because he has a top-10 player that has to play harder to make up for his coach not teaching him how to improve on the things that have plagued this team since LMA left.

 

[riverman]

Cause I actually think the personnel is better than the performance the last two seasons,even including the injuries, and would like to see what this roster could do with a coach who doesn't just get by because he has a top-10 player that has to play harder to make up for his coach not teaching him how to improve on the things that have plagued this team since LMA left.

Dame has improved every season.....every season.....we've developed some damned good basketball players under Stotts ...I love what we've seen from Nas and Trent .....as I said....you lose me completely when you stick to the idea that Stotts isn't coaching Dame....I'd just love to hear you say that to Dame face to face...or Melo.....or Trent....or the other coaches in the league..

 

[Labinot41]

Fire Stotts before the Playoffs starts bruh

 

[kjironman1]

Fire Stotts before the Playoffs starts bruh

Maybe keep him on for regular season only. Then hire a coach that coaches only during the playoffs. Maybe Popovich wants a part time gig?

 

[blazerkor]

Fire Stotts before the Playoffs starts bruh

Nah, let him and Olshey finish this season out. If they can get to and win some games in the conference finals then they're trending towards a championship and all of us should shut up about all of this shit. When they most likely don't make much noise in the playoffs, I hope McGowan fires both of them the day after we're done.

As far as this idea that the Vulcans don't care if we win, I'm not buying it. The value of this franchise goes up with a championship. More advertisers, more national TV exposure for those advertisers, more money. So the more competitive we can be the better for business. That doesn't mean that they can't mandate that any GM keeps them out of the luxury tax, it just means that the GM in question doesn't have to be Olshey. I don't think for one second that a stale GM and head coach combo add to the value of a franchise. I will say that I think that an organization that an owner doesn't seem to have much interest in might lose value because the owner would appear to value it less.

So setting records for indifference or holding onto mediocre regimes like Olshey/Stotts might not be the most competitive move as far as wins and losses are concerned or overall business is either.

 

[Tince]

Cause I actually think the personnel is better than the performance the last two seasons,even including the injuries, and would like to see what this roster could do with a coach who doesn't just get by because he has a top-10 player that has to play harder to make up for his coach not teaching him how to improve on the things that have plagued this team since LMA left.

While I don't totally see it the way you do, I understand the logic.

How many years with a new coach, and with Dame aging, would you be ok waiting until you're ready to get rid of the GM who can't put together a championship roster? I think it would be foolish to wait until Dame is 35 to attempt to put a legit championship roster around him.

 

[BonesJones]

I think the people who are OK with Stotts are saying the same thing, we ARE in the middle of "does his job and win a title" and most teams are the same. I thing the Stotts haters seem to be the ones that are "he doesnt do his job, let's change and win a title", moreso than the other way around.

No, it's "Let's change and give ourselves a chance at the title".

 

[Tince]

Nah, let him and Olshey finish this season out. If they can get to and win some games in the conference finals then they're trending towards a championship and all of us should shut up about all of this shit. When they most likely don't make much noise in the playoffs, I hope McGowan fires both of them the day after we're done.

As far as this idea that the Vulcans don't care if we win, I'm not buying it. The value of this franchise goes up with a championship. More advertisers, more national TV exposure for those advertisers, more money. So the more competitive we can be the better for business. That doesn't mean that they can't mandate that any GM keeps them out of the luxury tax, it just means that the GM in question doesn't have to be Olshey. I don't think for one second that a stale GM and head coach combo add to the value of a franchise. I will say that I think that an organization that an owner doesn't seem to have much interest in might lose value because the owner would appear to value it less.

So setting records for indifference or holding onto mediocre regimes like Olshey/Stotts might not be the most competitive move as far as wins and losses are concerned or overall business is either.

I'm fine with paragraph 1 and 3 to some degree.

If you were responding to my comment about ownerships #1 priority not being winning championships, you took what I said to a whole new level.

The Blazer are winning, they're just not contending for championships. My statement was that I believe the Vulcan's care more about business than winning championships. Would they spend $160m + tax if they were proposed a championship? Yes, of course, that would make good business sense. The problem is, spending more money doesn't mean you'll win championships, we're proof of that. Now, overspending not only doesn't promise a ring, but it really hurts your ability to compete in the future, which could just cost the Vulcans a lot of money. This is a business to Jody and the Vulcans.

 

[Tince]

No, it's "Let's change and give ourselves a chance at the title".

By putting together a championship roster. That's what we want!

One below average height all-star in 6 years isn't the receipe to win a championship. I don't care how amazing Dame, Steph, etc are.

 

[BonesJones]

While I don't totally see it the way you do, I understand the logic.

How many years with a new coach, and with Dame aging, would you be ok waiting until you're ready to get rid of the GM who can't put together a championship roster? I think it would be foolish to wait until Dame is 35 to attempt to put a legit championship roster around him.

How do we know we dont have a championship roster?

We have 3 players who, if healthy and at their peak, are all-star quality. One is a legit superstar and MVP candidate. Another was playing like a superstar before going down this year. We have one of the best 3-&-D role players in the league. We have an uber-athletic forward who defends well and who're cutting ability fits perfectly with our starting Cs playmaking. Our bench has a guy who was shooting 50/50/80 last year before injury and hopefully he can return to that. We have a 16ppg scorer and 3pt sniper who's shown flashes of good defense and intensity. We have one of the better backup Cs in the league. We have Melo who is one of the best 6th men when he's actually on. We has Nas who could potentially be better than all our bench players if he got a chance. We have a super-athletic guard shooting 40% from 3 on generally tough shots. Oh, and I havent mentioned Zach yet.

Roster-wise, I think we could contend with an elite coach. I want to upgrade the coach to truly see the ceiling of this team.

 

[riverman]

We can absolutely win a championship without changing roster or coaches or ownership.....it takes playing flawless two way ball and getting the roster back to full strength....all it takes is execution, ball protection, rebounding, shooting at a high clip and staying healthy....when we execute we can beat anybody....this covid shortened season with barely a training camp is not the season to bitch, moan and blow up the team...simple. We have to shoot well consistently ....every night the team that does pretty much wins the game.

 

[calvin natt]

No, it's "Let's change and give ourselves a chance at the title".

I fully believe Stotts will be fired end of season. So maybe we should start a potential HC candidates thread now. Or maybe there already is one I have no idea.

 

[blazerkor]

I'm fine with paragraph 1 and 3 to some degree.

If you were responding to my comment about ownerships #1 priority not being winning championships, you took what I said to a whole new level.

The Blazer are winning, they're just not contending for championships. My statement was that I believe the Vulcan's care more about business than winning championships. Would they spend $160m + tax if they were proposed a championship? Yes, of course, that would make good business sense. The problem is, spending more money doesn't mean you'll win championships, we're proof of that. Now, overspending not only doesn't promise a ring, but it really hurts your ability to compete in the future, which could just cost the Vulcans a lot of money. This is a business to Jody and the Vulcans.

It might not be as complicated as spending 160M plus luxury tax. It might be just getting new blood (quality hires) in here and seeing what they can do with the talent we have (both coaching it and making moves with it). We have Dame, maybe I overvalue the guy but I think with his leadership and game, he might be the most valuable players in this league today. I just don't think we have the most complementary pieces or coach around him and Olshey has shown that he can't seem to put that formula together. Now in the second half of this season Stotts very well might have every one of our top six pieces and pieces eight through fourteen (Zach being the only one missing). If this is the team that both Neil and Terry wanted then they should be able to make some major noise with it. Zach and under half of the season without CJ and Nurk will be no excuse if CJ and Nurk are healthy for the playoffs and lead up to them. So holding onto Olshey and Stotts would seem to me like bad business if they show once again that they can't perform.

 

[Tince]

How do we know we dont have a championship roster?

I suppose it's possible we could be the first team to win a championship with one below average height all-star and no above average height all-star next to him, but I believe we would be the first to do so. Even if we're not the first, it's VERY VERY rare.

If you're not ok with us trying to win a championship with a style of play that requires everything to go nearly perfect (correct me if I'm wrong that you don't feel that way), then why would you be ok with us trying to win with a roster make up that never wins a championship?

 

[BonesJones]

By putting together a championship roster. That's what we want!

One below average height all-star in 6 years isn't the receipe to win a championship. I don't care how amazing Dame, Steph, etc are.

A superstar getting 30 & 8, btw.

CJ is all-star caliber. Guards have been loaded in the West.

Peak Nurk is all-star caliber in terms of impact.

Dont use a popularity contest to gauge overall player quality.

 

[BonesJones]

I suppose it's possible we could be the first team to win a championship with one below average height all-star and no above average height all-star next to him, but I believe we would be the first to do so. Even if we're not the first, it's VERY VERY rare.

If you're not ok with us trying to win a championship with a style of play that requires everything to go nearly perfect (correct me if I'm wrong that you don't feel that way), then why would you be ok with us trying to win with a roster make up that never wins a championship?

Draymond was only an all-star because of how good Steph and Klay was. In terms of impact, I don't think prime Draymond was all that much better than what Nurkic could be. He was utilized perfectly with the perfect star guards to play next too.

Thing is, team success breeds all-star appearances. The West is loaded with talent, its a popularity contest. Using this to gauge a roster is as casual as it gets. You're better than this.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This years all star voting alone should negate any relevance to what teams have however many all stars and how important they are.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

We can absolutely win a championship without changing roster or coaches or ownership.....it takes playing flawless two way ball and getting the roster back to full strength....all it takes is execution, ball protection, rebounding, shooting at a high clip and staying healthy....when we execute we can beat anybody....this covid shortened season with barely a training camp is not the season to bitch, moan and blow up the team...simple. We have to shoot well consistently ....every night the team that does pretty much wins the game.

And the recipe to shoot at a higher clip?

Passing the fucking ball and getting assists, which we're last in because of our couching.

We have SO much talent. It's about utilizing it correctly.

 

[riverman]

And the recipe to shoot at a higher clip?

Passing the fucking ball and getting assists, which we're last in because of our couching.

We have SO much talent. It's about utilizing it correctly.

you can pass the ball 6 times and clank a long 3 that the other team corals and gets an easy layup from....the idea is to make the shot...the team that pulls that off for 4 qtrs wins....you can't miss shots for 4-7 minute stretches and win games...passing is great unless it's to the other team...which we've done too much of lately...we started out not turning the ball over and over our last losing streak turned it over all the time....mostly from trying to make that extra pass...it takes execution to win in the modern NBA.....if you don't the other team will score 150 on you
protect the ball
make shots
rebound

 

[brooklynballer]

you can pass the ball 6 times and clank a long 3 that the other team corals and gets an easy layup from....the idea is to make the shot...the team that pulls that off for 4 qtrs wins....you can't miss shots for 4-7 minute stretches and win games...passing is great unless it's to the other team...which we've done too much of lately...we started out not turning the ball over and over our last losing streak turned it over all the time....mostly from trying to make that extra pass...it takes execution to win in the modern NBA.....if you don't the other team will score 150 on you
protect the ball
make shots
rebound

You must agree that easier shots will lead to a higher field goal percentage, and potentially more points, no? Lack of easy buckets is, imo, one of the key factors holding this team back and that is because the coach loves himself some iso/hero ball. I mean, how good does the team look when they’re actually getting all of the role players involved in the offense? Engage them on the offensive end, they will put in even more effort on the defensive end. This isn’t rocket science, except to Terry Stotts and his apologists. Too often with this team it’s the whole “my turn, your turn” hamster wheel with Dame, CJ and Melo all taking turns taking long, difficult, and contested jump shots. When they’re going in this team looks great. When they’re not they look like a bottom 5 team in this league. And, worse of all, this mentality has rubbed off on the young guys, Trent Jr and Simons, who are starting to become chuckers as opposed to getting their points in the flow of the offense or learning how to attack the basket.

It’s as if Terry is opposed to his team getting better and more open looks (which can’t happen without crisp ball movement). But hey, keep worshipping the ground that Stotts walks on. He hasn’t led the team to a conference finals victory in his 9+ years at the helm but hey there’s always next year (or the year after that or the year after that...)

 

[riverman]

You must agree that easier shots will lead to a higher field goal percentage, and potentially more points, no? Lack of easy buckets is, imo, one of the key factors holding this team back and that is because the coach loves himself some iso/hero ball. I mean, how good does the team look when they’re actually getting all of the role players involved in the offense? Engage them on the offensive end, they will put in even more effort on the defensive end. This isn’t rocket science, except to Terry Stotts and his apologists. Too often with this team it’s the whole “my turn, your turn” hamster wheel with Dame, CJ and Melo all taking turns taking long, difficult, and contested jump shots. When they’re going in this team looks great. When they’re not they look like a bottom 5 team in this league. And, worse of all, this mentality has rubbed off on the young guys, Trent Jr and Simons, who are starting to become chuckers as opposed to getting their points in the flow of the offense or learning how to attack the basket.

It’s as if Terry is opposed to his team getting better and more open looks (which can’t happen without crisp ball movement). But hey, keep worshipping the ground that Stotts walks on. He hasn’t led the team to a conference finals victory in his 9+ years at the helm but hey there’s always next year (or the year after that or the year after that...)

see the difference when Hoodie, Melo and Roco make 3s? We win games....brick fests lose games...we've had a stretch of them. I don't see our players taking bad shots....they are just not making the damned shots. It really looks bad when most of your shooters are cold. The teams beating us are taking the same shots...they're just making them when they beat us....it's really simple. The good is that our bench rotation players have been playing against starter level talent and holding the fort down..that's going to really help when CJ and Nurk come back...game after game we've bricked uncontested corner threes and the other team has shot them really well

 

[wizenheimer]

sorry, but Blazers do not have enough talent right now to win a championship....not unless about a half-dozen elite players on true contenders get injured

that's no reason not to fire Stotts or Olshey however. Masters of mediocrity shouldn't have job security

 

[brooklynballer]

see the difference when Hoodie, Melo and Roco make 3s? We win games....brick fests lose games...we've had a stretch of them. I don't see our players taking bad shots....they are just not making the damned shots. It really looks bad when most of your shooters are cold. The teams beating us are taking the same shots...they're just making them when they beat us....it's really simple. The good is that our bench rotation players have been playing against starter level talent and holding the fort down..that's going to really help when CJ and Nurk come back...game after game we've bricked uncontested corner threes and the other team has shot them really well

Clearly you and I are watching different games then. Let’s just leave it at that.

 

[Tince]

A superstar getting 30 & 8, btw.

CJ is all-star caliber. Guards have been loaded in the West.

Peak Nurk is all-star caliber in terms of impact.

Dont use a popularity contest to gauge overall player quality.

You listed one all-star, who is awesome, love Dame! Nurk and CJ are almost all-stars like we are almost NBA Champions. My point isn't how great Dame is, he's never had a championship #2 next to him, which history has proven to be very important if your best player in below average height.

We can do All-NBA if you don't want to use All-Star, that's fine, the result is the same. You need an MVP level above average height player if you're going to try to win a championship without an all-league, all-star type #2 player. That's just a fact

 

[LayneStaley]

I hate Stotts so much. As long as he is coach we will never be even average defensively. 90% of all our games come down to are we gonna shoot 40% from 3 tonight, cause if not we are gonna lose. Plus how is it after 4 seasons we still haven’t figured out a way to take advantage of Dame being doubled for an entire game? Stotts is horrible.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

you can pass the ball 6 times and clank a long 3 that the other team corals and gets an easy layup from....the idea is to make the shot...the team that pulls that off for 4 qtrs wins....you can't miss shots for 4-7 minute stretches and win games...passing is great unless it's to the other team...which we've done too much of lately...we started out not turning the ball over and over our last losing streak turned it over all the time....mostly from trying to make that extra pass...it takes execution to win in the modern NBA.....if you don't the other team will score 150 on you
protect the ball
make shots
rebound

Except passing is done to create higher percentage shots. We don't do it enough. That's why we lack consistency.