Fire Stotts Eventually (4 Viewers)

[wizenheimer]

That's not an argument...that's a question

no it wasn't...if it was a question it would have had a question mark. I know the author....it was a rhetorical argument.

yeah, just like you guys I can split hairs

 

[riverman]

no it wasn't...if it was a question it would have had a question mark. I know the author....it was a rhetorical argument.

yeah, just like you guys I can split hairs

You posted ...Where would Portland be without Dame......so you know an author...how does that make your post a non-question? Because you didn't use a question mark?

 

[kjironman1]

You posted ...Where would Portland be without Dame......so you know an author...how does that make your post a non-question? Because you didn't use a question mark?

I know someone who works at a bank.
Does that make me rich?
Yes that was a question.

 

[wizenheimer]

You're the one that brought up injuries not me my man.
Exactly. You ask where would they be without Lillard? I'll tell you. Lottery.

then why the fuck are you using the record with Dame to argue in favor of Stotts and Olshey? You are explicitly saying they don't have any impact of the record, Dame does.

it's ironic that you think your arguments are coherent and mine aren't. I don't think the word means what you think it means

I also don't think "I rest my case" means what you think it means

 

[wizenheimer]

You posted ...Where would Portland be without Dame......so you know an author...how does that make your post a non-question? Because you didn't use a question mark?

yes...I wrote it an I'm telling you it wasn't a question. I'm not responsible for your confusion

 

[riverman]

yes...I wrote it an I'm telling you it wasn't a question. I'm not responsible for your confusion

Nothing confusing in my world my friend.....but you post often in veiled absolutes and when called out for them seem to have trouble having that conversation..example...I asked you about Lebronless Lakers, etc....and that just got left out of the mix so you could define me as confused....ok....I am so relieved you're not responsible for my confusion...guess I should seek therapy eh?

 

[calvin natt]

LOL..."rest my case"....good one. You're done commenting then

but you see....this is the argument: you guys are pointing at the record and saying "good job Olehey and Stotts". A lot of other people are pointing at that record and saying "where would Portland be without Dame".

This drives me nuts. You can’t have it both ways. How do you blame someone for things when they go wrong but give no credit when they go right? If the team loses five straight after the break do we blame Lillard? If they continue to win 60% do we credit Olshey for building a team that can withstand these major injuries? If they lose though it’s on Stotts? And Neil? It all just seems so “pick and choose-y” to me.

 

[kjironman1]

This drives me nuts. You can’t have it both ways. How do you blame someone for things when they go wrong but give no credit when they go right? If the team loses five straight after the break do we blame Lillard? If they continue to win 60% do we credit Olshey for building a team that can withstand these major injuries? If they lose though it’s on Stotts? And Neil? It all just seems so “pick and choose-y” to me.

It's why i say he has absolutely no "Coherent" argument.
Then he says i don't know what it means.

co·her·ent
/ˌkōˈhirənt/
Learn to pronounce

adjective

1. 1.
   (of an argument, theory, or policy) logical and consistent.
   "they failed to develop a coherent economic strategy"

Logical and Consistent!

 

[kjironman1]

then why the fuck are you using the record with Dame to argue in favor of Stotts and Olshey? You are explicitly saying they don't have any impact of the record, Dame does.

it's ironic that you think your arguments are coherent and mine aren't. I don't think the word means what you think it means

I also don't think "I rest my case" means what you think it means

Just stop bro.
You cannot look any worse at this point.
Go back read the thread again and maybe come back and apologize for your confusion here. Or don't? I don't care. Because yes you are responsible for the confusion.
Have a good day. I'm done here.

 

[blazerkor]

and you just did it again. Why is it so important for you to know who I'd hire as GM if I owned the Blazers? What difference would it make?

I've never been a big advocate of firing Stotts. I think he has, in some cases, been blamed for roster construction he has no control over. But his flaws as a defensive coach have never been more apparent than this season. That's enough reason if his over-reliance on offensive iso wasn't

Olshey is a different matter. I think he should have been fired after the 2016 disaster....that Portland is still dealing with 5 years later, by the way. But the big thing is that in 2015, Olshey went all-in on the Dame/CJ team. 110%. He's treating that pairing, in both opportunity-cost and financial-cost as if they are a championship pairing like Bird/McHale or Magic/Jabbar or Magic/Worthy or Jordan/Pippen or Kobe/Shaq or Duncan/Robinson or Lebron/DWade or Curry/Durant or Lebron/AD. He didn't build a team around Dame. He built it around Dame/CJ and has not wavered in that commitment even though the evidence is close to overwhelming it won't yield a championship. Seeing all those names in those championship duo's, it's already a bit of a stretch to put Dame there. But it's nuts to think CJ belongs. But that is what Olshey has committed Portland to

you want to know who I'd hire as GM? Anybody who could look at the Portland roster objectively instead of thru the lens of Olshey's ego

This right here is the thing. We all see players play. We hear about their work ethic and we get an idea (even if it's a filtered one) of what their character is like. We just don't know those things about up and coming executives and coaches in the league. So it's really hard to speculate who the next GM or coach will or should be. The fact is we need a new perspective running this team. That means Olshey is out. If the hopefully very savvy individual the team picks to run things thinks that Stotts should go then so be it and this new GM better hire a very good coach. We might know who these guy are but we also might not and that is fine, either way.

I proposed Shane Battier as GM because he's been under the tutelage of Pat Riley, everyone has great things to say about his front office work and he was considered the smartest player in the league during much of his career. Certain people panned the idea saying that players make horrible GMs despite the overwhelming evidence that that is a false narrative.

I recommended Brian Shaw as head coach because he's been a great assistant, won championships as a player and assistant coach, has a year and a half of experience head coaching a bad NBA team and most importantly both holds players accountable and has a great relationship with Dame, that's longer than anyone else's in the NBA. So people said that he failed in Denver with a really good roster. That roster's best player was either Kenneth Farried or Wilson Chandler. Someone had the nerve to list Randy Foye and JaVale McGee as players that made the roster good (quick note: the Nuggets did trade their best player, Iggy, for Foye before Shaw was hired).

These two names were just shots in the dark but the only reason why anyone in here is asking for names is so they can shoot them down.

 

[riverman]

This right here is the thing. We all see players play. We hear about their work ethic and we get an idea (even if it's a filtered one) of what their character is like. We just don't know those things about up and coming executives and coaches in the league. So it's really hard to speculate who the next GM or coach will or should be. The fact is we need a new perspective running this team. That means Olshey is out. If the hopefully very savvy individual the team picks to run things thinks that Stotts should go then so be it and this new GM better hire a very good coach. We might know who these guy are but we also might not and that is fine, either way.

I proposed Shane Battier as GM because he's been under the tutelage of Pat Riley, everyone has great things to say about his front office work and he was considered the smartest player in the league during much of his career. Certain people panned the idea saying that players make horrible GMs despite the overwhelming evidence that that is a false narrative.

I recommended Brian Shaw as head coach because he's been a great assistant, won championships as a player and assistant coach, has a year and a half of experience head coaching a bad NBA team and most importantly both holds players accountable and has a great relationship with Dame, that's longer than anyone else's in the NBA. So people said that he failed in Denver with a really good roster. That roster's best player was either Kenneth Farried or Wilson Chandler. Someone had the nerve to list Randy Foye and JaVale McGee as players that made the roster good (quick note: the Nuggets did trade their best player, Iggy, for Foye before Shaw was hired).

These two names were just shots in the dark but the only reason why anyone in here is asking for names is so they can shoot them down.

You're in a "Fire Stotts" thread so one could say the only reason anyone here is asking to hire another coach is so they can shoot down Stotts and or Olshey.....there are so many of these threads it's hard to distinguish.....If Popovich wanted to coach the Blazers....I'd hire him right now....that's not reality but I sure wouldn't shoot that move down....as it is, there are plenty of other coaches I would not want here...Brian Shaw doesn't do much for me.....David Vanterpool would get the job before Shaw or Becky Hammond would get a shot....I'd hire Spoelstra in a heartbeat if he wanted to come home here...very few in the league I'd pick over Terry...I wouldn't hire Thibs or Rivers over Terry either and Rivers has a ring. I'd hire Jerry West or Masai Ujiri over Neil....

 

[OneSport3]

then why the fuck are you using the record with Dame to argue in favor of Stotts and Olshey? You are explicitly saying they don't have any impact of the record, Dame does.

it's ironic that you think your arguments are coherent and mine aren't. I don't think the word means what you think it means

I also don't think "I rest my case" means what you think it means

I wouldn’t waste your time with this guy. He’s never wrong and believes his opinions are fact. I’m starting to think he’s Danny Marang’s burner account.

 

[blazerkor]

You're in a "Fire Stotts" thread so one could say the only reason anyone here is asking to hire another coach is so they can shoot down Stotts and or Olshey.....there are so many of these threads it's hard to distinguish.....If Popovich wanted to coach the Blazers....I'd hire him right now....that's not reality but I sure wouldn't shoot that move down....as it is, there are plenty of other coaches I would not want here...Brian Shaw doesn't do much for me.....David Vanterpool would get the job before Shaw or Becky Hammond would get a shot....I'd hire Spoelstra in a heartbeat if he wanted to come home here...very few in the league I'd pick over Terry...I wouldn't hire Thibs or Rivers over Terry either and Rivers has a ring. I'd hire Jerry West or Masai Ujiri over Neil....

If I owned the team I would not fire Stotts. I would fire Olshey, hire the best person possible as GM and let that person make the decision on Stotts. I don't think very many people that would take the job would keep a coach that has such a mediocre record over nine seasons. Both Olsehy's and Stotts's tenures when coupled with their record are unprecedented in this league. This team should not settle for historic mediocrity.

Again, Battier and Shaw were shots in the dark. I expect the Vulcans to have better ideas than you do or I do. So all of the coaches you just mentioned really most likely have nothing to do with our team's situation.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Aminu has been injured for a long time (knee). He just returned from injury a couple of weeks ago. He had 14 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks in his last game in 25 minutes

That changes nothing that I said about his lesser play since he left Portland.

 

[e_blazer]

If I owned the team I would not fire Stotts. I would fire Olshey, hire the best person possible as GM and let that person make the decision on Stotts. I don't think very many people that would take the job would keep a coach that has such a mediocre record over nine seasons. Both Olsehy's and Stotts's tenures when coupled with their record are unprecedented in this league. This team should not settle for historic mediocrity.

Again, Battier and Shaw were shots in the dark. I expect the Vulcans to have better ideas than you do or I do. So all of the coaches you just mentioned really most likely have nothing to do with our team's situation.

I think that your priority in assigning the "mediocrity" to Olshey is correct. He really screwed the pooch with his crazy contracts in the summer of 2016. The money he doled out in matching on Crabbe, signing Evan Turner and Festus Ezeli, and resigning Leonard and Harkless was absolutely crazy. How he survived that debacle I'll never understand, but he did and it hamstrung the team's ability to acquire players who might actually have helped build a contender around Dame.

As for Stotts being tied to the "mediocrity", he can only coach the roster that the GM gives him. Here's what he's had to work with since he was hired to coach beginning Dame's rookie season:

2012-13 Aldridge, Babbitt, Barton, Batum, Claver, Freeland, Hickson, Jeffries, Leonard, Lillard, Matthews, Maynor, Pavlovic, Ronnie Price, Nolan Smith

2013-14 Aldridge, Barton, Batum, Claver, Crabbe, Freeland, Leonard, Lillard, Lopez, Mattthews, McCollum, Robinson, Watson, Williams, Wright.

2014-15 Afflalo, Aldridge, Barton, Batum, Blake, Claver, Crabbe, Frazier, Freeland, Gee, Kaman, Leonard, Lillard, Lopez, Matthews, McCollum, T. Robinson, Wright

2015-16 Alexander, Aminu, Crabbe, Davis, Frazier, Harkless, Henderson, Kaman, Leonard, McCollum, Montero, Plumlee, Roberts, Vonleh

2016-17 Aminu, Connaughton, Crabbe, Davis, Harkless, Layman, Leonard, Lillard, McCollum, Napier, Nurkic, Plumlee, Quarterman, Turner, Vonleh

2017-18 Aminu, Baldwin, Collins, Connaughton, Davis, Harkless, Layman, Leonard, Lillard, McCollum, Napier, Nurkic, Papagiannis, Swanigan, Turner, Vonleh

2018-19 Aminu, Baldwin, Collins, Curry, Harkless, Hood, Kanter, Leonard, Lillard, McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, Stauskas, Swanigan, Trent, Turner

2019-20 Adams, Anthony, Ariza, Bazemore, Brown, Collins, Gabriel, Hezonja, Hoard, Hood, Labissiere, Lillard, Little, McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, Swanigan, Tolliver, Trent, Whiteside

The 2014-15 season was the only one that actually had any shot of being considered a true contender, and it was seen as a fringe contender at best. Once Matthews went down, that dream was over. Most of Dame's seasons after that have had dumpster fire rosters. I truly think that Olshey was hoping for a couple of chances at lottery picks, but Dame's greatness screwed him over and denied him that source of talent. Given what he's had to work with, coupled with the injury problems the last few seasons, I think that it's unlikely that anyone could have reasonably been expected to do more than Terry with what he's had available to him. I also think that with the rosters the Blazers have had, their small market status, and their lack of viable trade assets to garner better players, there wouldn't have been many good experienced coaches who would have taken his job if offered.

 

[Shaboid]

I think that your priority in assigning the "mediocrity" to Olshey is correct. He really screwed the pooch with his crazy contracts in the summer of 2016. The money he doled out in matching on Crabbe, signing Evan Turner and Festus Ezeli, and resigning Leonard and Harkless was absolutely crazy. How he survived that debacle I'll never understand, but he did and it hamstrung the team's ability to acquire players who might actually have helped build a contender around Dame.

As for Stotts being tied to the "mediocrity", he can only coach the roster that the GM gives him. Here's what he's had to work with since he was hired to coach beginning Dame's rookie season:

2012-13 Aldridge, Babbitt, Barton, Batum, Claver, Freeland, Hickson, Jeffries, Leonard, Lillard, Matthews, Maynor, Pavlovic, Ronnie Price, Nolan Smith

2013-14 Aldridge, Barton, Batum, Claver, Crabbe, Freeland, Leonard, Lillard, Lopez, Mattthews, McCollum, Robinson, Watson, Williams, Wright.

2014-15 Afflalo, Aldridge, Barton, Batum, Blake, Claver, Crabbe, Frazier, Freeland, Gee, Kaman, Leonard, Lillard, Lopez, Matthews, McCollum, T. Robinson, Wright

2015-16 Alexander, Aminu, Crabbe, Davis, Frazier, Harkless, Henderson, Kaman, Leonard, McCollum, Montero, Plumlee, Roberts, Vonleh

2016-17 Aminu, Connaughton, Crabbe, Davis, Harkless, Layman, Leonard, Lillard, McCollum, Napier, Nurkic, Plumlee, Quarterman, Turner, Vonleh

2017-18 Aminu, Baldwin, Collins, Connaughton, Davis, Harkless, Layman, Leonard, Lillard, McCollum, Napier, Nurkic, Papagiannis, Swanigan, Turner, Vonleh

2018-19 Aminu, Baldwin, Collins, Curry, Harkless, Hood, Kanter, Leonard, Lillard, McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, Stauskas, Swanigan, Trent, Turner

2019-20 Adams, Anthony, Ariza, Bazemore, Brown, Collins, Gabriel, Hezonja, Hoard, Hood, Labissiere, Lillard, Little, McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, Swanigan, Tolliver, Trent, Whiteside

The 2014-15 season was the only one that actually had any shot of being considered a true contender, and it was seen as a fringe contender at best. Once Matthews went down, that dream was over. Most of Dame's seasons after that have had dumpster fire rosters. I truly think that Olshey was hoping for a couple of chances at lottery picks, but Dame's greatness screwed him over and denied him that source of talent. Given what he's had to work with, coupled with the injury problems the last few seasons, I think that it's unlikely that anyone could have reasonably been expected to do more than Terry with what he's had available to him. I also think that with the rosters the Blazers have had, their small market status, and their lack of viable trade assets to garner better players, there wouldn't have been many good experienced coaches who would have taken his job if offered.

This seems like a fair assessment to me. The only thing that I would add is that the only way that Stotts stays and Olshey goes is if the Vulcans only interview or consider GMs that are planning to keep Terry. So I guess that's a factor. I don't expect anything to happen until the end of the season anyway, so I'm just gonna ride it out.

 

[Hoopguru]

Look around the league and you'll find teams that have done what Neil has done in overpaying players. Look at Griffins contract.
Again, this league is a country club of about 4/5 teams now and 10 over the last 40 years. Its a league of mediocrity and one that has sold the average NBA fan that their team has a chance to do something good, make the playoffs, advance and who knows if your lucky enough to get one of them superb coaches that can coach an allstar team to the finals, hooray.
The marketing that the association has done since DStern has been fantastic and look at us were all part of it.
Just as an adder; how about offering Spoelstra an opportunity to not only coach, but GM the team. Think Jody could pay him enough? Its an idea!

 

[BonesJones]

Who's out there that meets those expectations?
Mark Few?
Mark Jackson?
Beetlejuice?

Theres a few guys who I have a feeling like might, but that's why you fire the existing coach and have an interview process to determine who has what specific qualities. The perfect head coach in my mind could be someone I've never heard of.

 

[BonesJones]

I do wonder why he gives such high praise to these players but doesn't give credit to the team for performing well without them? Stotts right now is part of that team.

Because we've beaten mostly bad teams on the back of Dame's heroics, and Stotts isnt making it any easier on him offensively. Defensively this team is still very bad.

"Win = Good Job Stotts!" Isnt an equation I subscribe to.

 

[Hoopguru]

Because we've beaten mostly bad teams on the back of Dame's heroics, and Stotts isnt making it any easier on him offensively. Defensively this team is still very bad.

"Win = Good Job Stotts!" Isnt an equation I subscribe to.

Would you say Ainge & Stevens have done well?

 

[Hoopguru]

I think the Warriors have a great GM but an average at best coach.

 

[wizenheimer]

If I owned the team I would not fire Stotts. I would fire Olshey, hire the best person possible as GM and let that person make the decision on Stotts. I don't think very many people that would take the job would keep a coach that has such a mediocre record over nine seasons. Both Olsehy's and Stotts's tenures when coupled with their record are unprecedented in this league. This team should not settle for historic mediocrity.

Again, Battier and Shaw were shots in the dark. I expect the Vulcans to have better ideas than you do or I do. So all of the coaches you just mentioned really most likely have nothing to do with our team's situation.

that's probably the normal course of events

and I noticed that the guys who keep asking people to name replacements before the fact haven't engaged you after you did. Which seems to mean that continuing and advancing the discussion was not the goal of asking for names.

 

[Hoopguru]

that's probably the normal course of events

and I noticed that the guys who keep asking people to name replacements before the fact haven't engaged you after you did. Which seems to mean that continuing and advancing the discussion was not the goal of asking for names.

That's BS....Blazerkor and others have no problem in making name suggestions of someone they like or would interested in. Nobody is trying to trap into anything its just subjective discussion.

 

[calvin natt]

What do we know about Nate Tibetts? For a guy to be seemingly liked and respected, experienced but still young, would think he’s a prime candidate unless there’s something about him we don’t know.

David Vanterpool- has to be a a candidate..unless again there’s something about him. I heard several years ago some negative things. Has to have legitimacy, or he’d get the MN job.

Ime Udoka - can’t beat his tutelage and seems like a great guy, hard worker

Kenny Atkinson. Weird departure from Nets but did good things while there. I would not but he has some fans.

Hammon. For some reason, and I really hate to say it, I don’t see Lillard excited to be playing for her. Crucify me. Just don’t see her being a difference maker. At all.

Will Hardy - Spurs. He will get hired soon by someone. Tried to get the Warriors G League job three years ago and was a finalist. He would be that up and coming guy - like Memphis, Indiana, those guys who come out of nowhere and are just good.

Jay Wright. Maybe he’s ready to leave college. Would get respect day one I think.

Jeff Van Gundy. Really good coach. Clearly experienced. I would be all over this one

Chris Beard - Texas Tech not sure realistic but this dude can coach.

Kidd: Barf

Jason Collins. GS assistant.

Sam Cassell: has been on a bench for years, but not hired yet makes me think he’s got something about him. Pat Ewing was in same boat. Known to be lazy.

 

[hoopsjock]

I could sit here and name 100 different names but not one single person in this forum had heard of Nick Nurse, Mark Daigneault, or Nate Bjorkgren before they were hired. Some of you are probably like "who?" to those last two.

Point is not one of us knows who would say the right things in an interview or who would provide the "requirements" wanted in a new coach without being present for those interviews.

By the way, that question has been answered multiple times in this thread already if you want specific names.

 

[kjironman1]

I could sit here and name 100 different names but not one single person in this forum had heard of Nick Nurse, Mark Daigneault, or Nate Bjorkgren before they were hired. Some of you are probably like "who?" to those last two.

Point is not one of us knows who would say the right things in an interview or who would provide the "requirements" wanted in a new coach without being present for those interviews.

By the way, that question has been answered multiple times in this thread already if you want specific names.

Most everyone around here knows Nate. assistant with both the Raptors and Suns.
He was interviewed by Boston and the Clippers.
Daigneault was hired from within and it still is to be determined on his job. He doesn't have a bunch to work with but the team does play with energy. Not really fair to judge the guy yet.

As far as Nick Nurse is concerned he also was hired from within the organization. Everyone knew about him. He's been there for like 8 or 9 years or something like that? Just remember he was one lucky bounce on a shot from losing the second round. He was gifted Leonard to go with a solid roster. It's too bad Kawhi didn't stay there, they probably could have been in the finals again last year.

Would i go for replacing Stotts with our Nate Tibbetts hell yeah. In a heartbeat!
Would love to see if he could get more out of the team.

 

[BonesJones]

Would you say Ainge & Stevens have done well?

What the fuck does this have to do with Terry Stotts?

 

[BonesJones]

"Hey bro, you seem down. Want to talk about it?"

- "Yeah, I want to break up with my girlfriend. She's a nice girl but there's certain qualities that she's lacking that I want in a partner"

"Ah I see. Well, who would you replace her with?"

- "Huh?"

"Well you have to know some ok me better if you want to break up with her. Or else your reasons arent legitimate."

- "What're you talking about? I'd break up with her then hopefully meet someone new through dating..."

"Well, how do you know THAT girl wouldnt be worse?"

- "Well that's why I'd date, to make sure I found someone with the qualities I'm looking for."

"What about John's girlfriend? Would you say John and Amy are doing well?"

- "I know they went through a rough patch but what does that have to do with my situation?"

 

[BonesJones]

What do we know about Nate Tibetts? For a guy to be seemingly liked and respected, experienced but still young, would think he’s a prime candidate unless there’s something about him we don’t know.

David Vanterpool- has to be a a candidate..unless again there’s something about him. I heard several years ago some negative things. Has to have legitimacy, or he’d get the MN job.

Ime Udoka - can’t beat his tutelage and seems like a great guy, hard worker

Kenny Atkinson. Weird departure from Nets but did good things while there. I would not but he has some fans.

Hammon. For some reason, and I really hate to say it, I don’t see Lillard excited to be playing for her. Crucify me. Just don’t see her being a difference maker. At all.

Will Hardy - Spurs. He will get hired soon by someone. Tried to get the Warriors G League job three years ago and was a finalist. He would be that up and coming guy - like Memphis, Indiana, those guys who come out of nowhere and are just good.

Jay Wright. Maybe he’s ready to leave college. Would get respect day one I think.

Jeff Van Gundy. Really good coach. Clearly experienced. I would be all over this one

Chris Beard - Texas Tech not sure realistic but this dude can coach.

Kidd: Barf

Jason Collins. GS assistant.

Sam Cassell: has been on a bench for years, but not hired yet makes me think he’s got something about him. Pat Ewing was in same boat. Known to be lazy.

Ime Udoka, Chris Beard, Ettore Messina, Jay Wright, DV, and Hardy is a good list to start with.

 

[Tince]

Ime Udoka, Chris Beard, Ettore Messina, Jay Wright, DV, and Hardy is a good list to start with.

At one point you were advocating for Mike Budenholzer. Change your mind on him?