Fire Stotts Eventually (1 Viewer)

[Sheldon Shape]

Got it. So Olshey is in a position (GM) where you feel voting is valid, Stotts is not in a position (coaching) where you think the voting is valid. Therefore, all GMs are better than coaches? I'm not seeing how you're comparing the two.

If you're telling me you don't understand the credibility difference between two groups then you might have a problem.

Acting like NBA front offices and sportswriters have the same credibility is brain dead logic.

Might as well say NBA coaches and NBA fans are the same since they both vote.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Paul Allen hired Stotts...he interviewed Caleb Kanales and Terry Stotts and chose Stotts...Neil had very little to do with that

He's still at least partially responsible for the extension and not firing him sooner.

 

[BonesJones]

Seems like people want to hold Stotts to a different criteria than they hold other coaches to.

For the millionth time, I don't base my criticism based off one look at the standings sheet. So you you acting like its inconsistent if I dont do that for another team is ridiculous.

 

[Tince]

For the millionth time, I don't base my criticism based off one look at the standings sheet. So you you acting like its inconsistent if I dont do that for another team is ridiculous.

I didn't say you did base your criticism off the standings, did I?

I said it seems like people hold Stotts to a different criteria (not standings) than other coaches.

 

[Tince]

If you're telling me you don't understand the credibility difference between two groups then you might have a problem.

Acting like NBA front offices and sportswriters have the same credibility is brain dead logic.

Might as well say NBA coaches and NBA fans are the same since they both vote.

I didn't say I had an issue with the credibility difference between the two. I had an issue with you saying you've determined Olshey is better than Stotts by using Executive of the Year voting, but provided NOTHING similar to compare it with Stotts.

I'll try again. What are you comparing the two with in order to determine one is way better than the other outside of your opinion?

 

[BonesJones]

I didn't say you did base your criticism off the standings, did I?

I said it seems like people hold Stotts to a different criteria (not standings) than other coaches.

Well I don't watch the Celtics night in and night out. How do you expect people to know as much about how another team is playing as they do about the Blazers?

 

[Tince]

Well I don't watch the Celtics night in and night out. How do you expect people to know as much about how another team is playing as they do about the Blazers?

I don't expect them to know as much. I expect them to have a bias towards the team they watch causing them to think their team issues/strengths are vastly different than the rest of the league. This is true for the supporters/haters of thier GM, coach, and players.

This is why fans think their best player should be MVP/traded, their bench guys are amazing/horrible, etc.

That's where taking a step back, removing emotion, and using large data sets can help paint a more accurate picture. In my opinion.

 

[jlprk]

people hold Stotts to a different criteria (not standings) than other coaches.

It makes sense to do that. Stotts should be evaluated according to his weird coaching beliefs.

Also, Stotts-lovers apply the injury excuse to him, inconsistently from all the other coaches who have the same injuries.

 

[BonesJones]

I don't expect them to know as much. I expect them to have a bias towards the team they watch causing them to think their team issues/strengths are vastly different than the rest of the league. This is true for the supporters/haters of thier GM, coach, and players.

This is why fans think their best player should be MVP/traded, their bench guys are amazing/horrible, etc.

That's where taking a step back, removing emotion, and using large data sets can help paint a more accurate picture. In my opinion.

Well I watch a different NBA team night in and night out and I can tell are issues are different based on our opponents. But I cant come to conclusions on the way another team is coached based off of one game.

Large data sets? Okay. How about how weve been last in assists the last two years and near the bottom the year before that. Or how about our 29th ranked defense.

I don't analyze the coaching based off emotion. You seem to be stretching yourself thin to try to discredit others opinions when they back theirs up and you struggle to.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

What are you comparing the two with in order to determine one is way better than the other outside of your opinion?

I thought it was pretty clear.

The credibility of their peers.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

That's where taking a step back, removing emotion, and using large data sets can help paint a more accurate picture. In my opinion.

Doesn't Stotts have one of the worst post season records among active coaches?

Or is that data not good enough for you?

 

[Tince]

It makes sense to do that. Stotts should be evaluated according to his weird coaching beliefs.

Also, Stotts-lovers apply the injury excuse to him, inconsistently from all the other coaches who have the same injuries.

"weird coaching beliefs"? According to who?

I thought Stotts-haters only count other teams injuries, not ours?

 

[Tince]

Doesn't Stotts have one of the worst post season records among active coaches?

Or is that data not good enough for you?

With the roster Olshey built. And Olshey's Clipper rosters also under-achieved in the playoffs.

Now we're starting to compare like resumes.

 

[Tince]

I thought it was pretty clear.

The credibility of their peers.

So where does Stotts rate in the credibility of his peers? That would be an equal comparison, no?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

With the roster Olshey built. And Olshey's Clipper rosters also under-achieved in the playoffs.

Now we're starting to compare like resumes.

Yes. You're right and all the front offices around the league have been wrong for a decade.

Leave your info below in case any NBA franchises want to hire you.

 

[Tince]

Well I watch a different NBA team night in and night out and I can tell are issues are different based on our opponents. But I cant come to conclusions on the way another team is coached based off of one game.

Large data sets? Okay. How about how weve been last in assists the last two years and near the bottom the year before that. Or how about our 29th ranked defense.

I don't analyze the coaching based off emotion. You seem to be stretching yourself thin to try to discredit others opinions when they back theirs up and you struggle to.

I love the assist data set. It's been proven to have near zero correlation with winning basketball.

We could find large data sets where Portland is top 2, like 3 pointers made. But what good is that data if it doesnt' correlate to wins? If you have a stat where Portland is 29th in league that also has a strong correlation to wins, please provide it. I've asked you for this many times, but you tend to deflect, go to "eye tests" or provide a tiny data set.

 

[Tince]

Yes. You're right and all the front offices around the league have been wrong for a decade.

Leave your info below in case any NBA franchises want to hire you.

Wrong about what? Not voting for coach of the year?

You didn't like me comparing Olshey's playoff success in Portland with Stotts success in Portland? It's like they're the same!

 

[Sheldon Shape]

So where does Stotts rate in the credibility of his peers? That would be an equal comparison, no?

The closest thing you have is the coach of the year award and he's still not where Olshey is in terms of votes for being the best at their jobs.

If you still have a problem with that comparison then you should go find the data since you're arguing otherwise.

 

[Tince]

I thought it was pretty clear.

The credibility of their peers.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/5/...l-coaches-association-coach-of-the-year-award

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Wrong about what? Not voting for coach of the year?

You didn't like me comparing Olshey's playoff success in Portland with Stotts success in Portland? It's like they're the same!

Their assessment of the job Olshey has done obviously.

 

[Tince]

The closest thing you have is the coach of the year award and he's still not where Olshey is in terms of votes for being the best at their jobs.

If you still have a problem with that comparison then you should go find the data since you're arguing otherwise.

You realize a factor in executive of the year is not just players, but the coaching staff they have as well, right?

 

[Tince]

Their assessment of the job Olshey has done obviously.

But what are you comparing that to? How did those same people vote for COTY? That would be the only like-for-like comparison.

I'm NOT saying Stotts is better than Olshey. I'm questioning how one could come to the conclusion that Olshey has done a better job than Stotts. Especially since he's the one in charge of keeping Stotts

 

[Sheldon Shape]

https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/5/...l-coaches-association-coach-of-the-year-award

This doesn't tell us where he was ranked and you should provide results from other seasons like I did Olshey.

 

[riverman]

all the other coaches who have the same injuries.

I never realized Stotts was injured....and how all the other coaches are suffering through the same injuries? This is uncanny!

 

[Sheldon Shape]

You realize a factor in executive of the year is not just players, but the coaching staff they have as well, right?

Talk about the results. Not what I think they mean.

You're trying to wiggle your way out and change the subject again.

 

[Tince]

This doesn't tell us where he was ranked and you should provide results from other seasons like I did Olshey.

I didn't make the claim Olshey is clearly better, you did!

If I make the claim Stotts is clearly better, I'll back it up! I don't think there is any way to come to that conclusion either way.

But you want me to disprove your claim without you ever proving it?

 

[BonesJones]

I love the assist data set. It's been proven to have near zero correlation with winning basketball.

We could find large data sets where Portland is top 2, like 3 pointers made. But what good is that data if it doesnt' correlate to wins? If you have a stat where Portland is 29th in league that also has a strong correlation to wins, please provide it. I've asked you for this many times, but you tend to deflect, go to "eye tests" or provide a tiny data set.

It correlates to winning for us. We're 8-0 this year when we have more than 25 assists. 13-14 when we have less than 25.

We're 29th in DRTG. If you dont think defensive quality correlates with winning and losing, then you're more far gone than I thought.

You make this too easy.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

But what are you comparing that to? How did those same people vote for COTY? That would be the only like-for-like comparison.

I'm NOT saying Stotts is better than Olshey. I'm questioning how one could come to the conclusion that Olshey has done a better job than Stotts. Especially since he's the one in charge of keeping Stotts

I've provided examples repeatedly and you don't have any.

So your premise is kind of thrown out the window.

You can try to fill in the gaps but you're not very effective at it.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I didn't make the claim Olshey is clearly better, you did!

If I make the claim Stotts is clearly better, I'll back it up! I don't think there is any way to come to that conclusion either way.

But you want me to disprove your claim without you ever proving it?

I already backed it up. Olshey has been voted as one of the league's best GMs even before he got to Portland.

It's not my fault you can't find similar data on Stotts. You tried and fell flat on your face.

 

[hoopsjock]

No i didn't miss anything you said but you sure seemed to miss what i said. Nick Nurse was gifted his roster. Where is he now?

And no that wasn't Google (Sure i fact check. You should also). Everyone here knew Nick Nurse and we had multiple conversations about Nate Bjorkgren. I mean how can you forget a name like that? You are not the only one paying attention. All you have to do is read Darkwebs first post on the game threads to know who is coaching. If you actually listened to the Blazers pregames you would get most of this info.

***My point in response was two of those hires were from within the organization and the Blazers have a guy that might fit that bill in Nate Tibbetts. I'll bet if you go on a bunch of other fan boards for other teams only a few know the name Nate Tibbetts.

I also brought up the "replace the COY "pages ago when i brought up how George Karl was replaced. This was in response to Brian Shaw. They went for almost two years before finding Mike Malone. Then what happened? The Nuggets still are trying to find the right coach because it obviously isn't Malone.

Go back and read the thread.

Over 100 pages now.

You do know there is a search feature on this site right?

I used it to search Bjorkgren. Not one single mention of his name prior to being named head coach of the Pacers.

Too bad you have to lie.