Fire Stotts Eventually

[blazerkor]

No offense, but there are so many issues with this post I don't know if I should address the non-definable things or the massive assumptions that are not backed up with any facts (not opinions).

Like you, I do hope we are able to find a coach that can take a roster with one all-star under 6'6" to the NBA Finals. That coach would be the first in the NBA to pull off such an accomplishment in 30 years. I do not think Stotts is good enough to do something no coach has done decades.

Oh yeah, this team's roster composition needs to be addressed along with the team's coaching this off season.

 

[EGame]

No offense, but there are so many issues with this post I don't know if I should address the non-definable things or the massive assumptions that are not backed up with any facts (not opinions).

Like you, I do hope we are able to find a coach that can take a roster with one all-star under 6'6" to the NBA Finals. That coach would be the first in the NBA to pull off such an accomplishment in 30 years. I do not think Stotts is good enough to do something no coach has done decades.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. The fact is Stotts is not the coach and unless people are ok with just first round exits then he should be gone. I, on the other hand am ready for change. Change can lead to bad things, it could be worse than Stotts, it is always possible. But there is no reason to settle for as long as we have. And to give Stotts a little credit, he's never fully had the help from the GM constructing a good roster. But Stotts is the biggest offender when it comes to his set rotations and hardly breaking it as well as little to no adjustments ever being made, especially that is a playoff setting.

 

[Tince]

I think the first thing that defines a good coach is actually something that they don't do. They don't cost their team games.

I think a good coach motivates their players both with encouragement and accountability.

A good coach tells their players what they're doing wrong and what they need to do to correct it.

A good coach makes in game adjustments both to what players are doing individually and what the team is doing as a whole on both ends.

A good coach also doesn't deflect blame. In that way and others a good coach leads by example.

Finally I think a good coach knows their Xs and Os. So they're able to draw up plays and schemes in a way their players can understand and execute both in practices and especially in games.

First off, I greatly appreciate the well thought out answer; cheers to that.

Second, we could find examples for nearly all your bullet points in favor or against Stotts. If you hate Stotts, you'd say he fails to check any of the boxes. If you like Stotts, you'd say he does all those things. Very much opinion based.

 

[Tince]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. The fact is Stotts is not the coach and unless people are ok with just first round exits then he should be gone. I, on the other hand am ready for change. Change can lead to bad things, it could be worse than Stotts, it is always possible. But there is no reason to settle for as long as we have. And to give Stotts a little credit, he's never fully had the help from the GM constructing a good roster. But Stotts is the biggest offender when it comes to his set rotations and hardly breaking it as well as little to no adjustments ever being made, especially that is a playoff setting.

I appreciate the constructive back and forth.

I 1000% disagree with you about Stotts' rotations. In the past he's been fairly rigid in that area, but this year he's had TONS of different rotations.

The adjustment argument is difficult. We could breakdown film and identify changes from the start of a game to the end of the game, but it would probably be a pointless move. We saw some different off-ball play movement when Phoenix was attempting to wall off Dame today. I'm not sure if it was "good" or not, but it was different.

This has been a first/second round exit roster for 5 years heading into the season and it will likely play out that way again this season. I'd like to see that change.

 

[Tince]

Oh yeah, this team's roster composition needs to be addressed along with the team's coaching this off season.

Totally fine with this!

My real concern is that Olshey will convince his superiors that Stotts is the main issue, he'll fail to resign Powell, tinker around with a couple forwards, and we'll go another year without addressing the far more critical problem. We need to retain Powell and add an all-star wing to compete with the big boys.

 

[Strenuus]

My thinking is this:

If we lose in the first round: stotts is gone, olshey is gone.

If we lose in the 2nd round: stotts is gone, olshey stays

They stay if we go beyond that.

But we definitely need to change it up. Something needs to happen as we get to the back half of Dames prime.

 

[blazerkor]

First off, I greatly appreciate the the thought out answer; cheers to that.

Second, we could find examples for nearly all your bullet points in favor or against Stotts. If you hate Stotts, you'd say he fails to check any of the boxes. If you like Stotts, you'd say he does all those things. Very much opinion based.

You have a point... I guess you can't define what makes a coach good in specific terms... a good coach just adds more wins to their team than the majority of coaches in the league do... in whatever way they do it. The fact that it really is so abstract is probably why a guy like Stotts sticks around for so long when many have been calling for his ouster for quite some time. It's why hiring coaches is probably more iffy than drafting prospects.

 

[blazerkor]

My thinking is this:

If we lose in the first round: stotts is gone, olshey is gone.

If we lose in the 2nd round: stotts is gone, olshey stays

They stay if we go beyond that.

But we definitely need to change it up. Something needs to happen as we get to the back half of Dames prime.

Well I think we'll lose in the first round, if we even get there and I really really hope that the team does what your thinking is.

 

[Scalma]

This is like not answering the question.

It’s a stupid question just like it was a stupid decision. Just because they didn’t specifically cost them doesn’t mean it was a good decision.

btw I’d rather have jones or RHJ guard booker than Powell.

 

[Strenuus]

Well I think we'll lose in the first round, if we even get there and I really really hope that the team does what your thinking is.

Damn dude if we somehow get into the play in and lose that. They both gone.

But I really feel we will get the 6th seed. Which I still don't know if it's the best course, but that's the reality they put themselves in.

 

[blazerkor]

Totally fine with this!

My real concern is that Olshey will convince his superiors that Stotts is the main issue, he'll fail to resign Powell, tinker around with a couple forwards, and we'll go another year without addressing the far more critical problem. We need to retain Powell and add an all-star wing to compete with the big boys.

Been fearing this same shit for a while now. If Stotts is such a big problem then that's Olshey's fault and in my opinion the bigger problem is Olshey's overvaluing of the Dame/CJ back court and lack of impact moves he's made to make this team contenders.

 

[EGame]

I appreciate the constructive back and forth.

I 1000% disagree with you about Stotts' rotations. In the past he's been fairly rigid in that area, but this year he's had TONS of different rotations.

The adjustment argument is difficult. We could breakdown film and identify changes from the start of a game to the end of the game, but it would probably be a pointless move. We saw some different off-ball play movement when Phoenix was attempting to wall off Dame today. I'm not sure if it was "good" or not, but it was different.

This has been a first/second round exit roster for 5 years heading into the season and it will likely play out that way again this season. I'd like to see that change.

Fair enough, He has had different rotations you are right, but I'm not certain how we go from starting Jones Jr to barely even seeing him anymore once Norman was traded to us. When you need a last second stop like tonight in most situations I would like Jones Jr over Norman (probably) and especially over Melo. Maybe not an ice cold Jones Jr, but this is why he should be getting at least some minutes. It makes no sense to me to limit our rotation to 8 men, with our bench play rotation literally being all shit defenders. Let Jones Jr play so he isn't ice cold if we need a last second stop.

My adjustment argument was not necessarily just about this game in particular, but more so in the playoffs. Playoff matches are always a game of chess and how frequently does it seem like the other teams coach makes adjustments (usually that of forcing the ball out of Dame) and Stotts has no answer (again that goes back to why I said it would be nice to have a coach who preaches ball movement with solid offensive sets) But also this season how many 3rd quarters have we completely got demolished in? It has been quite a bit if my memory serves me right. Half time adjustments being made by the other team and none by Stotts.

I think ultimately you and I agree, but you are right, their are a lot of grey areas here. I am just ready for a change in coach and GM. It is a tough situation, though, because Dame won't be in his prime forever and changing so late into it can be bad. But clearly Stotts aint it either.

 

[Tince]

Fair enough, He has had different rotations you are right, but I'm not certain how we go from starting Jones Jr to barely even seeing him anymore once Norman was traded to us. When you need a last second stop like tonight in most situations I would like Jones Jr over Norman (probably) and especially over Melo. Maybe not an ice cold Jones Jr, but this is why he should be getting at least some minutes. It makes no sense to me to limit our rotation to 8 men, with our bench play rotation literally being all shit defenders. Let Jones Jr play so he isn't ice cold if we need a last second stop.

My adjustment argument was not necessarily just about this game in particular, but more so in the playoffs. Playoff matches are always a game of chess and how frequently does it seem like the other teams coach makes adjustments (usually that of forcing the ball out of Dame) and Stotts has no answer (again that goes back to why I said it would be nice to have a coach who preaches ball movement with solid offensive sets) But also this season how many 3rd quarters have we completely got demolished in? It has been quite a bit if my memory serves me right. Half time adjustments being made by the other team and none by Stotts.

I think ultimately you and I agree, but you are right, their are a lot of grey areas here. I am just ready for a change in coach and GM. It is a tough situation, though, because Dame won't be in his prime forever and changing so late into it can be bad. But clearly Stotts aint it either.

Yes, I think we're very close to being on the same page.

Adjustments are important. I do thinks adjustments are made that the average fan doesn't see, but I also think it's more difficult to make significant adjustments when your best two players are small guards vs two-way wings, which goes back to what I feel is the main problem in the organization.

 

[Tince]

It’s a stupid question just like it was a stupid decision. Just because they didn’t specifically cost them doesn’t mean it was a good decision.

btw I’d rather have jones or RHJ guard booker than Powell.

I disagree with the first part.

I think DJJ is an overrated on ball defender. It's possible that a midseason FA signing is our best defensive option there, but I would also argue that only proves my point of failed roster construction. A guy nobody wanted 2 months ago shouldn't be a better option than a guy we gave up 2 first round picks or used our full MLE on.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Totally fine with this!

My real concern is that Olshey will convince his superiors that Stotts is the main issue, he'll fail to resign Powell, tinker around with a couple forwards, and we'll go another year without addressing the far more critical problem. We need to retain Powell and add an all-star wing to compete with the big boys.

The All Star wings:
Kawhi
PG
Giannis
KD
LeBron
Simmons
Tatum
Brown

Who of those can we get for the assets we have?

 

[Strenuus]

The All Star wings:
Kawhi
PG
Giannis
KD
LeBron
Simmons
Tatum
Brown

Who of those can we get for the assets we have?

Simmons.

 

[Tince]

The All Star wings:
Kawhi
PG
Giannis
KD
LeBron
Simmons
Tatum
Brown

Who of those can we get for the assets we have?

This is a valid question and I love that it's asked.

Many believe we have a very talented, title contending roster, so there must be an assumption that these very talented player would be highly sought after in trade by other teams, right?

Of the 8 players you listed, all of them have either been drafted or traded for since we drafted Dame. Giannis we literally could've just drafted and that alone would have us in contending territory and might have put us in a position to get a 3rd all-star looking to win a championship.

Our best chance to obtain supertars is in the draft. Olshey has elected to trade multiple first round picks for role players instead of trusting his draft skills. He also traded two first round picks to not draft Donovan Mitchell or Bam; players that would greatly increase our chances of trading for someone on that list.

Olshey has had 8 years to add that all-star wing to the roster, whether it's drafting the player directly or obtaining enough assests we could trade for them. He's failed to do this.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The All Star wings:
Kawhi
PG
Giannis
KD
LeBron
Simmons
Tatum
Brown

Who of those can we get for the assets we have?

Paul George, Simmons and maybe one of the Celtics like Brown. If the Clippers flame out then Kawhi will demand a change.

 

[GDiama]

Paul George, Simmons and maybe one of the Celtics like Brown. If the Clippers flame out then Kawhi will demand a change.

If our assets include Lillard then yes those guys are attainable, but you don't get them for CJ. Maybe Simmons could have a slight chance to work if 76ers have some epic fail in playoffs and we can add some more picks to that.

 

[wizenheimer]

The All Star wings:
Kawhi
PG
Giannis
KD
LeBron
Simmons
Tatum
Brown

Who of those can we get for the assets we have?

you forgot Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, Pascal Siakam, Julius Randle, Draymond Green & Brandon Ingram

several of those players have been traded in Olshey's tenure, and several more were available when Olshey had draft picks, or had picks he traded away. GM's will always whiff sometimes, Olshey whiffs a lot more than sometimes. Doesn't even have to be a all-star wing. For instance, a lineup of Dame-Powell-RoCo-Jeremai Grant-Nurkic would be better than what they have now, IMO...provided there was a different coach

but he's built a championship roster if Portland moves to the 6'4 and under league

 

[BonesJones]

Hopefully everyone has realized that there's major issues that are not because of a personnel. I mean, we upgraded our forwards from Moe Harkless and Al-Farouq Aminu to a 19PPG 40% 3pt shooter and Robert freakin Covington. Also, we have more talent than the Nuggets and they have all the dreaded injuries. But they're beating us? When Dame is playing insane?

No way to excuse Stotts. The guy needs to go.

 

[damianlillard]

Hopefully everyone has realized that there's major issues that are not because of a personnel. I mean, we upgraded our forwards from Moe Harkless and Al-Farouq Aminu to a 19PPG 40% 3pt shooter and Robert freakin Covington. Also, we have more talent than the Nuggets and they have all the dreaded injuries. But they're beating us? When Dame is playing insane?

No way to excuse Stotts. The guy needs to go.

Agreed. Stotts need to go. But also Powell is a shooting guard not a forward. But he is better than DJ and all of those guys. Neil also need to go with his failure to trade for a second star when he had harden wanting to come here and Leonard on the market at one point but instead decided to stay with his baby boy CJ

 

[AldoTrapani]

No need to talk about this. Even if we win this series it’s clear Stotts is gone. He should even want to step down himself

 

[BonesJones]

Agreed. Stotts need to go. But also Powell is a shooting guard not a forward. But he is better than DJ and all of those guys. Neil also need to go with his failure to trade for a second star when he had harden wanting to come here and Leonard on the market at one point but instead decided to stay with his baby boy CJ

Why is Powell a SG not a SF? He has an 8'7 standing reach.

Heard that Olshey offered CJ for Harden too. So if so, why should he get fired for supposedly not doing something that he actually did?

 

[tester551]

Why is Powell a SG not a SF? He has an 8'7 standing reach.

Heard that Olshey offered CJ for Harden too. So if so, why should he get fired for supposedly not doing something that he actually did?

What is your source for that? Or where did you hear it?
I hadn't seen anyone claim that before.

 

[wizenheimer]

Why is Powell a SG not a SF? He has an 8'7 standing reach.

Heard that Olshey offered CJ for Harden too. So if so, why should he get fired for supposedly not doing something that he actually did?

first thing....the standing reach argument is fucking dumb....IMO of course. With wingspan you could at least argue it might impact passing lanes. But Mark Eaton was the last player to play defense with standing reach

and secondly, just where did you hear Olshey offered CJ for Harden?

 

[BonesJones]

first thing....the standing reach argument is fucking dumb....IMO of course. With wingspan you could at least argue it might impact passing lanes. But Mark Eaton was the last player to play defense with standing reach

and secondly, just where did you hear Olshey offered CJ for Harden?

You think where the top of your head is matters more than how far you can reach up? You contest shots by reaching up. You grab rebounds by reaching up. You dunk by jumping and reaching up.

Forgot, might've been Quick.

 

[BonesJones]

What is your source for that? Or where did you hear it?
I hadn't seen anyone claim that before.

I dont remember, might've been Quick, but I know I heard it. Might not be true.

 

[wizenheimer]

You think where the top of your head is matters more than how far you can reach up?

yes, for sure, when there is a 7 inch difference in head height. Blazers, and Powell, are damn lucky Porter is so inexperienced in the playoffs. If Powell was defending Tatum or Lebron, his standing reach would not matter

Forgot, might've been Quick.

Quick said just the opposite IIRC. Said something like "Olshey wouldn't trade CJ for PG13...no reason to think that would change for Harden". Bottom line was he didn't know....again, IIRC

 

[Hoopguru]

You think where the top of your head is matters more than how far you can reach up? You contest shots by reaching up. You grab rebounds by reaching up. You dunk by jumping and reaching up.

Forgot, might've been Quick.

The Joker can not jump at all, watch him he stretches and gets on his tippy toes out but the dude doesn't jump.