Firmly in the "See what they can get for CJ" group

[kjironman1]

I watched last year as the Warriors blew the Blazers out in the first quarter of game four of their first round series. The Blazers had played well to end the season. Went on a real good run after getting Nurk. But with the injury to Nurk and Davis the Blazers were a shell of the team in the playoffs. Lots of excuses were made and of course the Warriors went on to win the championship. The overall feeling was the Blazers were in fact on the rise and they needed another quality piece or two to become contenders.

However during that first quarter of complete misery i watched CJ McCollum pretty much quit as the deficit reached 25 points at about 8 mins into the game. His entire posture changed. He quit working on defense and simply decided to take long uncontested threes the rest of the way. I though "WOW"? How come CJ has quit? Dame was still working with everything he had. The rest played hard through the third quarter when Stotts finally put in the reserves and called it quits.

This year again i watched the exact same thing from CJ. This time in the third quarter as the Blazers were making one last possible run. They cut the lead down to 14 and were on the move. CJ committed Back to back turnovers and i watched the lead swell back to 20. Then was the straw that seemed to break CJ. He tried a crossover and jump left drive to the hoop. Got swatted as he has all series. The timeout was called and i saw that look on his face. He was done.... I doubt you will see CJ put forth any more real effort in this series.

CJ in my book is one of the most crafty scorers in the league. He has an ability to go on great scoring runs. That is until you get into the Playoffs when the defenses tighten up and the calls get fewer and further apart. There is no officials bailing him out in the playoffs. The other thing is Officials are not calling the reaches and they are letting defenders abuse him. This is why he is turning the ball over at crazy times. It's been happening to Dame also. We have all seen it.

As the title says i am now firmly in the see what this team could get for CJ group. I do really like CJ. Great upstanding guy but i just don't see that killer instinct and i just don't see total determination that it takes to be an all out elite shooting guard on and championship caliber team.

 

[Chris Craig]

Me too trade CJs ass

 

[kjironman1]

Me too trade CJs ass

You see the difference is i have absolutely no animosity towards CJ.

You want to make it all about "Trade CJ's Ass". It ain't CJ. It's the fit. He has been nothing but respectable since being drafted by this club. I just don't see him as the answer at this point. Seeing what is on the market would be smart. But not to just get rid of CJ. Only if the trade is right.

 

[DollaBel]

Agreed lets test the waters its about time.

 

[Five Second Violation]

In perfect hindsight CJ probably should have been dealt last summer, when his value likely peaked.

But we are getting closer to the point where it's almost an imperative, for we are short on assets and need to capitalize on what ones we have while they still hold some modicum of value. In CJ's case, I fear it's getting a little lower each game. Dude has plateaued and maybe even regressed. I wonder if other GMs have caught on.

 

[Gronk Brady]

Neil should be fired tomorrow if he refuses to trade CJ

 

[kjironman1]

In perfect hindsight CJ probably should have been dealt last summer, when his value likely peaked.

But we are getting closer to the point where it's almost an imperative, for we are short on assets and need to capitalize on what we have while they still hold some modicum of value. In CJ's case, I fear it's getting a little lower each game. Dude has plateaued and maybe even regressed. I wonder if other GMs have caught on.

I don't think so? He is still as crafty as ever but he needs to paired with a strong defensive minded point that distributes really well. Think about CJ with Chris Paul.
On the flipside think about Dame with a guy like Jimmy Butler?

 

[illmatic99]

See what you can get?

I'd actively shop him.

 

[kjironman1]

Neil should be fired tomorrow if he refuses to trade CJ

Got nothing to do with refusing or not. It's about getting quality back. If the deal sucks Neil better keep CJ.

 

[Gronk Brady]

Got nothing to do with refusing or not. It's about getting quality back. If the deal sucks Neil better keep CJ.

I’m done hearing “don’t make a deal just to make a deal”... at some point you have to make a deal or you are just shitty at your job

 

[Five Second Violation]

I don't think so? He is still as crafty as ever but he needs to paired with a strong defensive minded point that distributes really well. Think about CJ with Chris Paul.
On the flipside think about Dame with a guy like Jimmy Butler?

His shooting has regressed this year. And moreover, his play style is as selfish as ever and his tunnel vision has become more and more evident with time. He's knocking on 27 and I don't know if he really has the potential to get any better, given his limited defensive ceiling, limited finishing ability, and his lousy playmaking. Maybe he can blossom a bit further if he goes somewhere where his coach will actually try to make him an off-ball threat rather than the black hole that he is here.

Add in his max deal and I really don't know what he will fetch us in the trade market. Other front offices may see past the crafty scoring and look more to things like the fact that the guy actually had a negative RPM this year. But we can't afford to not give it a try. Treadmilling for another half decade is the worst case scenario. A trade must be made.

 

[kjironman1]

I’m done hearing “don’t make a deal just to make a deal”... at some point you have to make a deal or you are just shitty at your job

No a bad deal is shitty at your job. Continuing to build with quality draft picks is doing it right in the small market. Making good deals is always better than "Just Making a deal"
I feel you are letting your emotions control your intellect at this point. I understand.It's always tough to lose in the playoffs. But they need to make good decisions and keep making them.

 

[kjironman1]

His shooting has regressed this year. And moreover, his play style is as selfish as ever and his tunnel vision has become more and more evident with time. He's knocking on 27 and I don't know if he really has the potential to get any better, given his limited defensive ceiling, limited finishing ability, and his lousy playmaking. Maybe he can blossom a bit further if he goes somewhere where his coach will try to make him an off-ball threat rather than the black hole that he is here.

Add in his max deal and I really don't know what he will fetch us in the trade market. Other front offices may see past the crafty scoring and look more to things like the fact that the guy actually had a negative RPM this year. But we can't afford to not give it a try. Treadmilling for another half decade is the worst case scenario. A trade must be made.

We'll see i guess.

 

[Voodoo]

My brother and I call him CJ McTurnOver, that nickname still applies in 2018. I am ready to ship him out because I am sick of his iso style of basketball, he's like a shorter less talented version of Broy.

 

[KingSpeed]

I got confused. Thought you then started talking about tonight.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I kind of wonder if anybody is going to really beat down Portland's door for CJ this summer? His playoffs performance haven't exactly made him look like a "must have" player. Unfortunately, I think the Blazers are going to be looking a pennies on the dollar situation.

Edited for clarity, because some people couldn't tell that the i and the n got transposed as a typo.

 

[Voodoo]

I kind of wonder if anybody is going to really beat down Portland's door for CJ this summer? His playoffs performance haven't exactly made him look like a "must have" player. Unfortunately, I think the Blazers are going to be looking a pennines on the dollar situation.

Wouldn't surprise me if not, I was a strong advocate of trading him last year, shame we didn't. Not surprisingly I have not been a CJ fan since we first drafted him, oh well.

 

[kjironman1]

I got confused. Thought you then started talking about tonight.

I am.

 

[BrunoSOC]

You guys are crazy. CJ inst the problem. Change the coach system first

 

[BonesJones]

I still think he can work under a coach that made players move the ball and utilized Dame and CJ as off-ball weapons. CJ needs to learn how to play disciplined.

If Pop coached this team, he'd make it work.

 

[Voodoo]

You guys are crazy. CJ inst the problem. Change the coach system first

Don't disagree with changing the coach, but we need to change both IMO.

 

[kjironman1]

You guys are crazy. CJ inst the problem. Change the coach system first

I disagree. Read what i wrote. Might be tough to translate for you. But there are reasons in the original write up.

 

[kjironman1]

I still think he can work under a coach that made players move the ball and utilized Dame and CJ as off-ball weapons. CJ needs to learn how to play disciplined.

If Pop coached this team, he'd make it work.

There is the old "Pops would be better" line. This team as assembled would not be better with Popovich.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I kind of wonder if anybody is going to really beat down Portland's door for CJ this summer? His playoffs performance haven't exactly made him look like a "must have" player. Unfortunately, I think the Blazers are going to be looking a pennines on the dollar situation.

After Bron leaves I can see the Cavs going for him

 

[illmatic99]

I kind of wonder if anybody is going to really beat down Portland's door for CJ this summer? His playoffs performance haven't exactly made him look like a "must have" player. Unfortunately, I think the Blazers are going to be looking a pennines on the dollar situation.

Not sure what pennines are but if you mean pennies, youre exaggerating this lack of value.

 

[Drttimmy]

I'm not sure I saw "quit" in CJ, his body language and effort seemed consistent with how he always plays from my perspective. He's a prideful guy and serious about his craft, it wouldn't be consistent with those qualities to see him moping or half-assing. He's probably frustrated and dejected, and those feelings are gonna pull down your energy. Maybe that's what you're seeing. But perceived or not, I'm not sure it's the turning point reason to move on from CJ. Lots of other reasons have made it seem sensible for awhile. I like him as a 3rd or 4th option, and see him having a long career similar to Jamal Crawford. To actually build around though...he's the kind of player you add as a mid season trade/last piece to championship team type...but not to start with.

 

[kjironman1]

You guys are crazy. CJ inst the problem. Change the coach system first

Tell me exactly what a different coach is going to do with the same flaws in the roster. It's not a knock on any of them. They are what they are.

 

[kjironman1]

I'm not sure I saw "quit" in CJ, his body language and effort seemed consistent with how he always plays from my perspective. He's a prideful guy and serious about his craft, it wouldn't be consistent with those qualities to see him moping or half-assing. He's probably frustrated and dejected, and those feelings are gonna pull down your energy. Maybe that's what you're seeing. But perceived or not, I'm not sure it's the turning point reason to move on from CJ. Lots of other reasons have made it seem sensible for awhile. I like him as a 3rd or 4th option, and see him having a long career similar to Jamal Crawford. To actually build around though...he's the kind of player you add as a mid season trade/last piece to championship team type...but not to start with.

I can see a difference. I watched it last year also. And yes it does seem frustrated to the point where he just doesn't work as hard.

I agree that this is a problem that has been here for a while. I said some of the same things last year. Pretty much got invited to leave from multiple forums. CJ could very well be a sixth man of the year type player but $25.7 Million is quite a bit to be paying for that kind of player. His next contract will start at about $30 Million. Unless he decides to take less for some reason? I don't see a player at his age taking less at this point in his career?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Not sure what pennines are but if you mean pennies, youre exaggerating this lack of value.

hurr durr

Pennies on the dollar, not penny on the dollar, it could even be 80 or 90 "pennies on the dollar." The expression is fairly old, maybe you've heard it? Typically it means you aren't going to get full value in a trade, and if the Blazers start shopping CJ, after a lackluster playoff performance then it's just a fact that his value is not going to be at an all-time high -- the Blazers will have lost leverage.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If Pop coached this team, he'd make it work.

Let's give Pop CJ to coach and test that thesis.