Politics Florida school shooting: Armed officer 'did not confront killer'

[Nate]

Nate real question not trolling at all.

You do know WWE is fake right?

I know you’re trying, but can you try harder?

I’m not entirely sure, but I don’t think the WWE people use knives in their stunts.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

The training for said teachers, the steps the schools would need to take to make sure everyone is in the know of who has a gun (etc) would cost money.

Training? The teacher's money, if the teacher voluntarily chooses to engage in said training. Nothing is mandatory, so the school is not paying.
Make sure everyone knows who has a gun? No--not necessary at all. In fact, that would partially defeat the purpose. Better for all potential offenders to not know who might be armed, and assume anyone could be.
No costs would need to be borne by the school to simply allow teachers to be armed.

I thin the problem is, while it IS a "step", it's like step 90. There are better options than this to try first.

I don't see why there needs to be a chronology. This seems to be an issue that deserves many corrective actions simultaneously.

Lets not put more of the burden on the teachers than we need to. I say we come up with something to stop it happening in the first place.

Again, no burden on teachers. The notion is to grant liberty to teachers. Allow them to provide for their own and their students' defense if they're so inclined and qualified.

No argument on the last sentence. But I see no reason why they need be mutually exclusive.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

You don't want to open up this can of worms.
There have been plenty of incidents were citizens put their lives on the line to stop a terrorist attack when citizens had no weapons.

In fact there was a movie recently released on one.

I wonder how many stories there would be about armed teachers savind students from terrorists had trump been president during columbine

 

[julius]

What stops shooters from targeting cops? Just the presence and possibility is enough to deter most. Id rather deter most than none.

So teachers should be armed like cops now? Have bullet proof vests, helmets and access to loads of guns?

I really doubt that the kid who goes into a school is worried about dying or being deterred. They're past that point in their minds.

it's why the VAST majority of school shooters don't make it out alive. They're in for suicide mission

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So lets do a hypothetical here.
Lets say a law passes which allows teachers to arm themselves if they choose to.
Then lets say a whole staff chooses to not carry.
Now lets say that school who has no teachers armed because they chose not to... Gets shot up.

Do you think the teachers at the school are called irresponsible?
Do you think they receive death threats? That they're told they weren't doing their job?
Do you see them receiving any backlash at all?

I bet they'd get called cowards, even if they died in the shooting as well.

So, we don't allow some teachers the option to protect themselves because others who wouldn't want to might get vilified? Yeah, that doesn't quite track for me.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Actually they did.

Up until that time hijackings were for money or to release political prisoners. SOP was to remain calm and it would eventually end. No one on the first 3 planes thought this would be different or that their plane was to be used as a weapon. The people on the last plane learned of what happened to the first three planes in talking with people on the ground and acted heroically.

What if the plane landed on a school? What if a passender had a concealed 9mm? Could have pop'd the terrorists in the face and pilot could have landed happily. This is all assuming 9/11 wasnt a false flag ofcourse

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Btw,whats to stop a shooter from now targeting teachers if they thought/knew that they could be carrying a gun?

What stops them from targeting teachers now?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Training? The teacher's money, if the teacher voluntarily chooses to engage in said training. Nothing is mandatory, so the school is not paying.
Make sure everyone knows who has a gun? No--not necessary at all. In fact, that would partially defeat the purpose. Better for all potential offenders to not know who might be armed, and assume anyone could be.
No costs would need to be borne by the school to simply allow teachers to be armed.

I think that is completely wrong. Allowing teachers to be armed in their schools would invite huge liability. There would have to be some sort of certified and supervised training. Once those standards were set the school district would have to pay for them to be met. It would be an extension of continual education for teachers, which is either paid for or reimbursed by school districts.

Also students would quickly know who is packing because the weapon would have to be on the teachers at all times. Anything else would be a huge security problem and pretty much defeats the reason for teachers to be armed.

 

[H.C.]

So, we don't allow some teachers the option to protect themselves because others who wouldn't want to might get vilified? Yeah, that doesn't quite track for me.

Sad you made the decision to answer this way.
Sad you refused to answer the question.

 

[Nate]

Sad you made the decision to answer this way.
Sad you refused to answer the question.

Man, you know you’re fucking up when you start talking shit to the most level headed, reasonable person here.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think that is completely wrong. Allowing teachers to be armed in their schools would invite huge liability. There would have to be some sort of certified and supervised training. Once those standards were set the school district would have to pay for them to be met. It would be an extension of continual education for teachers, which is either paid for or reimbursed by school districts.

Also students would quickly know who is packing because the weapon would have to be on the teachers at all times. Anything else would be a huge security problem and pretty much defeats the reason for teachers to be armed.

Here's an interesting recent article on the concept. Seems like there are a lot of districts who already permit teachers to carry. As with any controversial idea, there are valid arguments on both sides.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-school-armed-20180222-story.html

 

[H.C.]

I wonder how many stories there would be about armed teachers savind students from terrorists had trump been president during columbine

I know you’re trying, but can you try harder?

I’m not entirely sure, but I don’t think the WWE people use knives in their stunts.

But in the WWE people do go at their opponent one by one.
Why you couldn't figure out the correlation is just silly.

Man, you know you’re fucking up when you start talking shit to the most level headed, reasonable person here.

I don't think you know what talking shit means.
Perhaps a dictionary will help you.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sad you made the decision to answer this way.
Sad you refused to answer the question.

I apologize--I responded based on where I thought the questions were leading, but I'll go ahead and answer your questions directly.

• Do you think the teachers at the school are called irresponsible?
  • By some, yes. I'd disagree with those who make that characterization, but yes, those people would exist.
• Do you think they receive death threats? That they're told they weren't doing their job?
  • Death threats? Unlikely, but theoretically possible. Told they weren't doing their job? By some, yes. I'd disagree with that characterization as well.
• Do you see them receiving any backlash at all?
  • Yes, backlash would be possible, as is always the case with controversial situations.

 

[H.C.]

Disappointing my circles gif didn't work on this website.
Oh well.

 

[Nate]

But in the WWE people do go at their opponent one by one.
Why you couldn't figure out the correlation is just silly.




I don't think you know what talking shit means.
Perhaps a dictionary will help you.

I’m not sure what effect you were going for with “sad” then. Seems like an insult.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I’m not sure what effect you were going for with “sad” then. Seems like an insult.

I didn't take it that way. More like "disappointing".

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I read through this thread. Some good takes (Brian is stand out). Some of the usual BS.

This guy makes me sick. The fact that the Police were watching on scene security video that was twenty minuets delayed makes me sick. The killer was gone while cops reacted to something that had happened twenty minuets before hand. The killer was at the mall getting a soft drink before anyone figured it out.

Forget the debate. The system failed these kids.

 

[H.C.]

I apologize--I responded based on where I thought the questions were leading, but I'll go ahead and answer your questions directly.

• Do you think the teachers at the school are called irresponsible?
  • By some, yes. I'd disagree with those who make that characterization, but yes, those people would exist.
• Do you think they receive death threats? That they're told they weren't doing their job?
  • Death threats? Unlikely, but theoretically possible. Told they weren't doing their job? By some, yes. I'd disagree with that characterization as well.
• Do you see them receiving any backlash at all?
  • Yes, backlash would be possible, as is always the case with controversial situations.

I'd lay you 5 to 1 that if a full staff refused to carry. The people who believe teachers should carry, would be calling for the jobs of every staff member.
Shit I listened to a parent yesterday say to a teacher. 'I pay taxes, therefore I'm indirectly your boss. So shut up and listen to what I say.'

I'd also say that this would force the same shortage that is effecting youth sports.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'd lay you 5 to 1 that if a full staff refused to carry. The people who believe teachers should carry, would be calling for the jobs of every staff member.

I respect your position, and I don't doubt that there would be a very small vocal minority who would say something to that effect. However, the existence of that small vocal minority doesn't impact my opinion.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

So teachers should be armed like cops now? Have bullet proof vests, helmets and access to loads of guns?

I really doubt that the kid who goes into a school is worried about dying or being deterred. They're past that point in their minds.

it's why the VAST majority of school shooters don't make it out alive. They're in for suicide mission

They choose the school because 9 times out of 10 the students who picked on them are there. They know that school is the best place to get back at all of them because 1 they are all there, and 2 there is no way to defend from a shooter at school because it is a gun free zone. Take away part 2 and it will deter a lot of them. They cant get revenge on everyone at once. Sure, there may still be revenge shootings at the bus stop but with simply allowing teachers who choose to exercise their constitutional rights you have hindered mass school shootings dramatically. Its a quick partial solution that can actually be implemented right now.

What is the liberal alternative? Ban bump stocks? It has been proven time and time again you dont need bump stocks to spray bullets. You saved no one. You can alter a ruger 10 .22 into full auto with a dremel and a little know how by the way. Banning a useless accesory saves no one. And banning guns altogether only stops law abiding citizens from gun ownership. The solutions offered are either unrealistic, unconstitutional, or useless. Or all 3.

I think im siding with president trump on this one.

 

[H.C.]

I respect your position, and I don't doubt that there would be a very small vocal minority who would say something to that effect. However, the existence of that small vocal minority doesn't impact my opinion.

Small like those trying to 'put it out there' that there are paid actors, not survivors of the florida shooting talking to the news?
Or
Small like those who are telling the kids walking out of class to get back in school and stop protesting?

Spoiler

going by the 2016 count, nearly 4.1m people in oregon.
68%(% of oregonians who voted in the 2016 election) of 4million is 2.75m
55/45 to pass the bill to allow guns in schools.
55% of 2.75 is 1512500.
Half of that is around 750k. I wouldn't characterize 750k people a minority.

 

[stampedehero]

Coward

His cowardice is monumental. If you have a job to do, do it! God Damn it!

 

[Hobbesarable]

I think that is completely wrong. Allowing teachers to be armed in their schools would invite huge liability. There would have to be some sort of certified and supervised training. Once those standards were set the school district would have to pay for them to be met. It would be an extension of continual education for teachers, which is either paid for or reimbursed by school districts.

Also students would quickly know who is packing because the weapon would have to be on the teachers at all times. Anything else would be a huge security problem and pretty much defeats the reason for teachers to be armed.

I agree with this. Several years ago I worked with a couple of school districts, school boards, and over 100 teachers.

Schools will sooner allow security guards who are fully trained rather than asking teachers (or allowing them) to bring firearms on campus. There is so much liability for a teacher as it is.

 

[Denny Crane]

The man is a coward and a disgrace. First responders run into the fires, not away from them.

I don't think anyone has suggested all teachers be armed. Only those who need the strawman to prop up their arguments.

The idea is to allow the few qualified ones to choose to be armed. There may be no qualified teachers (in more ways than one, sadly).

The deterrent is a shooter doesn't know which teacher is armed (or teachers, if any).

Plus you have a chance an armed teacher can do more than just be a human shield in these situations.

As is, gun free zones, the shooters are sure they won't face much opposition, if at all.

Something to think about is that those who are armed probably stop far more incidents than some would even consider. You don't hear about them on the news because what could have been a killing situation fizzled out or turned into nothing.

 

[riverman]

I agree with this. Several years ago I worked with a couple of school districts, school boards, and over 100 teachers.

Schools will sooner allow security guards who are fully trained rather than asking teachers (or allowing them) to bring firearms on campus. There is so much liability for a teacher as it is.

I would think the insurance spike for an armed teacher in a school would bankrupt the payroll...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[stampedehero]

Either way, I don't see weapons in schools or movie theaters or churches or concerts as making people safer.....Trump said maybe we should arm the teachers..then walked it back to having 20 percent of faculty armed...and pay them more....to me...that's not an answer that won't come with it's own set of problems....you think a criminal can steal a gun...well a student can steal a teacher's gun too.

All points are straight on! The bottom line is that the Assault rifles are not meant to be in the hands of the general public, whatever profession they carry. Trump's idea of 21 and over for purchase still placates the NRA. They are weak and putrid politicians. Unfortunately, scores of this weapon type are out there in the possession of criminals/gangs. The entire world must perceive us as rampant violent insane people.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The deterrent is a shooter doesn't know which teacher is armed (or teachers, if any).

Again, the kids are pretty quickly going to figure out which teachers are armed. The teacher would be carrying the gun on them. Having it anywhere else is a giant security problem and defeats the purpose of having armed teachers.

 

[stampedehero]

Well;....That proves he's a dick head.

 

[riverman]

There may be no qualified teachers (in more ways than one, sadly).

you disrespect a whole lot of great teachers...probably to prop up your argument?