Notice Foaming forum problems....

[Orion Bailey]

......Also let me say that OB can be a very passionate person at times. When he gets upset he can write and drop a couple of thousands words on you easier than I drop a poo after my morning coffee. His PMs are very long and can and have demanded hours of staff time to properly address. Without exaggeration just about every staff member has spent at least 40 hours of their personal time addressing OBs PMs. It’s impressive and awe inspiring. I can not thank them enough for the 100s of hours they devote to this place for free. I don’t think you guys have any idea the amount of work they put in.

This post is as long as any I have written. It took me about 2 minutes to read it. I written and/or posted 20 to 30 long things like this, some of which weren't responded to. 30 x 2 = 60 minutes. Took me 12 minutes to respond to this. 12 x 30 = 600= 10 hours. 11 hours total. Exaggerate much?
Also, you make it sound as if this is all on me and not the guy who more often than not instigated the drama against people he knows don't care for his antics. Something you keep evading and will not address.

Because added into all of this Chris and OB are very good friends outside of this forum. I think Chris even helped OB move to his new house. That’s the ultimate demonstration of friendship in my book. I was very sincere in not wanting this to strain their friendship.

Ive also taken and given many Blazer tickets for him and his son to go to. Does what we have done as friends outside of this forum matter? This is forum stuff. What we have done for each other outside of here is irrelevant.

Chris did share with me some of what OB was upset about and his reply to OB about it. It’s private so I will not share but Chris did a great job.


One thing Chris wanted to do was publicly address HCP about his post that OB was upset about but felt that he couldn’t because of the previous efforts to get HCP fired from his job.


This is where Chris and I disagreed.


I’m sharing this because while everyone on staff does an amazing job these things can be difficult and we don’t always agree.

First, I don't say things in private I wouldn't say in public. That's the difference from me and most, I don't have anything to hide man. Second, if Chris relayed I was mad ad the foaming of the mouth as thinking its an insult, he is incorrect in that relay. I agree. Its not a personal insult. What it is, is yet another direct callout, non basketball related post against another member of the forum out of the blue. Again, its about the poster not the post right? I have brought this up many times and you keep evading and dismissing this aspect. He continually goes at posters he knows does not care for his behavior and antics and he does it to create drama. Period.

Someone is attacking him and Its because of his behavior, not personal attacks. So whether he made a personal attack is irrelevant. Its about him continually going at people he knows he has issues with to purposefully attempt to create drama. You continue to ignore this aspect. So IF I'm getting blamed for doing something I didn't do and he is still doing his typical attack the poster bullshit., I know it could instigate said dumbass to go after him again and Ill just get blamed again . You all let him continue with these comments, and minimize them. Enable him and support him in this behavior, along with many posters here, and yet its this behavior that has obviously pissed ALot of people off of at least one person has gone so far as to go after him outside of the forum. I mean any common sense person would be seriously pissed that someone came a them outside of here, but should also have enough common sense to STOP GOING AT OTHERS HERE that he knows he has had issues with. I mean wtf man??? seriously? How does anyone support that type of behavior? How does anyone who is not a complete asshole think its actually funny and a joke to belittle people you know you don't get along with? I'm asking? Who actually thinks thats funny? Cool?

He has done this from the very first interaction ive had with him and he did it for over a year before he fond his new target in Bones when he showed up. We both made it crystal clear we didnt like his bs( along with several other posters) and he doubles down and continues to talk about us in a belittling and demaining mane and has never done anything but. Who the fuck does that? Who thinks its funny to continue to go at people who don't care for the antics?

[/QUOTE]

Here is the post from HCP that got OB so very upset and got deleted:

It's easy for those who get fucking irate EVERY game thread just to get mad at those who don't let it get to them. It's easy to call them "apologists" I think I saw that term being tossed a t some on here who try to stay positive. Like it's BAD thing to not get all fucking pissed EVERY night. I clicked on those two guys on here who have a youtube podcast and the hoop jocks guy was literally foaming at the mouth he was screaming so bad about Stotts. It was hilarious.


Lighten up, enjoy the game. We'll get a new coach someday and then you guys can find something else to bitch about.​

So here is where Chris and I had a difference of opinion:


Is saying that Hoopsjock was foaming at the mouth a personal insult?


This is what OB is very upset about. This is why OB wants HCP to be publicly admonished.


I do not think that this is a personal insult. Therefore I do not think that HCP needs to be admonished publicly for posting it.

Read above...

I try to keep the personal insult rule very simple, often when I’m skimming through threads I look for the format of “You are a ______” You are an idiot. You are a fucker. These are very easy to spot and take care of. But I take foaming at the mouth to mean the same as being upset, mad, angry, pissed off. And is saying that someone is upset, mad, angry, or pissed off an insult?


I am going to call out HCP for his misuse of literally.


So Chris and I had a long discussion about what personal insults are and if this rises to trashing what Bones and Hoopjock do with their vidcast.


While these discussions can be very time consuming all of you should be happy that we have them and are always trying to find the fairest and best ways to keep this place running. There is no playbook for this. Often new situations arise that we are unsure how to handle or deal with or that we are not in agreement on how to handle or deal with. Sometimes we know that no matter how or what we do we are going to piss someone(s) off badly.


The following is my opinion, not one shared by all the staff and because of that I feel it’s important to share with you all.


Is saying that someone is foaming at the mouth an insult?


As I already stated above I do not believe it is.


“Okay but everyone disagrees with you so you’re wrong you dumb dog, do something!”


Something was done. The post was deleted. Just because I don’t agree it doesn’t mean I’ll undercut others on staff and undo their decisions. I know their hearts and heads are in the right place so I’m not fucking with it.


“Bones and Hoops are working hard on their vidcasts and it’s not fair to criticize them.”


I LOVE WHAT BONES AND HOOPS ARE DOING! I like them personally, I think they are doing an amazing job. I’ve watched and been so impressed with the work and dedication they’ve put into this. They continue to get more and more viewers. And at the rate they’re going I can see them going on to bigger and better things.


“But if you like it so much why let HCP trash them?”


Because I think that being the critical voice of the Blazers is the niche they are trying to fill. Since our partnership with the Blazers started the organization has brought some of the more Blazer related social media presences together over the years. Pinwheel Empire, Blazer Gang, and others are very pro Blazers and don’t really provide a critical opinion about the team. Hoops and Bones are filling a huge void and doing it successfully. To some that comes off as being angry. I have seen some of the criticism they take on twitter. Whether intentional or not I look at them as being a bit like the Steven A Smith voice in the Blazer universe. Does everyone like SAS? No. Is SAS very good and successful at what he does? Oh yes. From a business standpoint what Bones and Hoops are doing immediately stands out and in social media that is a good thing.


But also Dan Marang got his start in this forum and is still a member here. Because of that should we not be allowed to complain or criticize what he does on Blazer Outsiders?


The head of Blazer broadcasting has been very good to this forum over the years. Does that mean we should be allowed to criticize the Blazer broadcasts?


Ben Golliver has posted in this forum does that mean we can’t be critical about what he writes?

• By Ben Golliver

This is difficult and not a black and white thing to figure out how to deal with.


Personally, and I told Chris this, if I were Bones and Hoops I would have laughed at what HCP said and used it. I would be throwing it out there on social media something like, “Check out BlazersUprise, the vidcast so truthful that it was labeled Foaming Mad by Blazer Broadcasting!”


(Hey Bones and Hoops, if you use this I demand a jack and coke as payment)


They can be critical of the Blazers and that criticism has been noticed by more than one in the organization. That is not a bad thing.


For right now, personal insults against Bones and Hoops not allowed, complaints about what they’re doing outside of this forum? I guess we’re going to have to discuss this more as a community and staff and take things on a case by case basis because I don’t want Bones and Hoops to ever feel they are not welcome or wanted here.

Again, read above. You went on this whole long insult thing when that has not been the point.

…


Now Mr Orion Bailey….


OB has 4 great dislikes in the world, HCP, me, dogs, and broccoli. (okay, the last two are made up.)


OB HATES HCP!


And OB thinks I’m the suckiest sucking sucker to ever run a forum.

I do not hate HCP. I do not hate you. I think HCP is a complete ***hat who doesnt know when to give a little bit of respect,l or ever admit when he might have been wrong, but thats far form hating someone ive never met. I have never told you I hate him and have always made it clear I dont wish him any harm or ill will outside of the forum, so your assertion is incorrect and off base. You should correct yourself cause thats BS.

Regarding you, I dont hate you either. I think you are a great mod in certain aspects, but have lost alot of respect for you over the HCP thing because no matter how many times I tell you the issue, you make statements like above that twist things into what they arent. Its not a personal insult thing. Its a stalking thing. Why cant he leave it to the post or basketball only? why must he continually make personal comments about other posters he knows he doesn't get along with? Why does he go out of his way to poke the bear to instigate drama and then continually claim innocence? Why do you minimalize this behavior and not address it as the core of the issue like it is?

Some of his complaints about me are fair and accurate. Some I do not agree with but I do listen to them and try to understand where he’s coming from.


But OB has directly or indirectly has been involved in two incidents that have resulted in HCP getting in trouble with his employer.


OB vehemently denies any involvement in letters being written to the Blazers about HCP.


But also OB has always been concerned that he will be blamed for the letters being sent to the Blazers.


OB has continually stated privately and publicly that I do not “call out” HCP in public and that I treat HCP differently than I treat others.


OB is not wrong on something but HCP has been "called out" and I also think this criticism of me is not fair or accurate.

There are often not black and white ways to deal with things in the forum. They require new or different ways to handle some of the problems that come up.


One thing that OB is not telling you is that he is the recipient of my trying to solve problems in a new and unique way that I have never done for anyone else. I tried something new that I have never done before and that I pretty much guarantee that no forum does.


After the 2nd letter to HCP’s employer became forum knowledge that led to some very heated conversations between OB and myself privately. I’m not going to rehash all of this. Bottomline I needed the shit between HCP and OB to stop and stop now. OB took this to mean that I’m treating HCP differently and that suddenly I didn’t like OB. So for the first time ever I had Chris Craig arrange a conference call between him, OB, and myself. I did this to personally communicate to OB I like him, this is not personal, but that this crap between him HCP could cause harm to our relationship with the Blazers and HAS TO STOP NOW!


There are either one of two things going on here:


Either OB is writing to the Blazers to get HCP in trouble.


0r


Someone is using these never ending hostilities between OB and HCP to get HCP in trouble to make it look like OB is behind it.


The only solution to this is get OB and HCP to leave each other the fuck alone!


I thought it was a very productive conversation with OB and he agreed to leave HCP alone. I also talked to HCP and told him to leave OB alone.

I swear to god on my life, my wife, my mother and father, Ive never taken anything outside of this forum in any form or fashion nor do I have any knowledge of anyone doing so. I have been forthright and an open book with what I did and do know, of which I wont repeat because its beating dead horse a this point, even though every time we talk, you have twisted it into something different, somehow not fully comprehending each time I have told you What I discussed and know regarding the Bodyman prank. Ive told it to you three or four times, you have referenced it in the past several times and each time incorrectly.....

For a couple years I never thought there was a letter. I thought it was a ploy to try to get me to feel bad. Once I actually came around to believing such a thing happened, I immediately provided full disclosure on anything and everything I knew and didnt know.
I apologized to HCP several times for my one thread in the initial phases asking people what they thought the Blazers might think if they knew he was actively and purposefully chasing new fans away from here. Thats it. Again, I have apologize many many times for doing that publicly, but after several complaints to you and other mods with little to know positive response,. I made a public thread asking the members what they thought. There were many moments early on where mods could have and in my opinion should have told him straight up publicly to chill, just like they publicly reprimand others. That shit never happened as far as I ever saw. Instead it led those who he chased around the forum talking shit about feel like there is a pretty obvious mod bias then.

And so now, here we are. Yet no mods will step up and say, you know, we should have put a stop to it sooner. My bad. No. Its all OB and his endless drama. Sly, you have known me from when I first came here. You have met me several times. I was I this way when I first joined this place? Was I not all about basketball and meetups and having fun?
Do you knot see I have become jaded because of this bias that has largely affect my conflict with him, that should have been put to bed sooo long ago? Fuck He continually denied my apologies for anything to do with anything once I realized someone was actually going after him and he shit in my face over it. You want me to still feel bad now?

I tried to make my amends, but since he is going to continue to think I did it, and continue his attacking people personally on this forum he knows he doesn't get along with then Im also helpless. Because someone keeps going after him over this and as long as he continues this behavior im gonna get blamed for the attacks outside of the forum.

OB has not honored this agreement.


OB wanted HCP to stop with the new member hazing and as far as I can tell he has.


OB has not stopped privately contacting HCP or complaining about him publicly even when it doesn’t have a damn thing to do with him.


This foaming mouth incident has absolutely nothing to do with OB and yet here is OB publicly calling out HCP, complaining about him, complaining about me.


Why are you doing this OB?


Why are you involving yourself with shit that doesn’t have to do with you?




And more importantly why in the hell are you putting yourself in a position according to you to be the fall guy for a new nasty gram to the Blazers about HCP? You’ve put out some very strong suggestions and/or justifications for someone to throw HCP under the bus to the Blazers over this both publicly and privately the last couple of days and dude, that is fucked up.

Read above. Thats whats fucked up. All your answers lie in my last comment above....

OB you have to see that I’m trying here. That I have worked very hard many times to communicate with you. I have listened to you and validated some of your complaints.

Its really hard to believe you listened to me when you say my issues or complaints aren't even what they are.

You called me out in a post a few weeks back saying I was being insulting and insulting. I quoted every post in that conversation and asked you to point out where and you ignored it.

You have several times twisted my conversation with bodyman I have relayed to you into something I didnt say.

You may say you have worked very hard, If so, you make alot of mistakes at work..... or, you werent really listening and your just saying you were because you think it will make me feel better, as if i'm some chump. lol.

I agree that the hazing of new members by HCP has to stop and it has.

How about chasing members around he doesn get along with and talking down or belittling them personally? Non basketball related?

I need you to stop with this HCP obsession.


It’s harmful to HCP.

It’s been harmful to you.


And it’s harmful to this community.


Please.

I'm taking up a couple of posters advise who pmed me and made me realize there are even more people who don't care for his antics than I realized and assured me if I put him on ignore it will work, as it has worked for them.
So he has been on ignore since yesterday and will remain that way. But man I got to say. I never fucking took shit out of this forum. Ever. That's playing dirty and I dont do that man. Thats not how I roll at all. I fight fire head on, why do you think my posts are so fiery? because I get it out right then and there and then more on. I dont put energy into this place outside of here. Seriously! I got a full life with many project to even consider wasting time on this damn forum outside of the forum. So he can, you can, other mods can, other members can think what they want, but they would be wrong if they thought I did anything.

 

[HailBlazers]

All I know is @hoopsjock would $!#&ing dominate @THE HCP on the court. Ball don't lie!

 

[kjironman1]

I'll say it Publicly now.
I was just having fun this morning with the wine thing.
Sorry. Didn't realize this had gotten this far out of hand.
Hope you all find a way to get it all sorted out.
Peace.

 

[Tince]

I'll say it Publicly now.
I was just having fun this morning with the wine thing.
Sorry. Didn't realize this had gotten this far out of hand.
Hope you all find a way to get it all sorted out.
Peace.

I'm totally lost at what happened (been on vacation), but I too hope things can be worked out.

The number of non-basketball posts made in response to basketball related posts that someone doesn't agree with have got a little high for my liking, but I understand being a mod has to be hard.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Bones and Hoopsjock are cool dudes and so is HCP. I don’t feel like foaming at the mouth was a personal insult but the shade my boy HCP throws to them isn’t really justified. They are good dudes and passionate blazer fans. Maybe HCP should lighten up on them or not mention them and there won’t be any drama in that aspect

the rest of the post, lol no comment

@SlyPokerDog Its this right here is all I had ever been looking for people to say, because its 100% truth. Its not justified. IT wasn't against me when he first came at me and it isn't justified when he goes at Bones and it wasn't justified when he would go at DougInSalem randomly.

But all I wanted to see was a few members and or mods state this and I wouldnt have had my long rants and posts man. I don't know why it is so hard for more people to stand up for what is right and call him out for that type of behavior. Seriously. Its not. good for the forum, not good for him, not good for bones and Hoop.

Why does he feel the need to always have a target to go after and pick on like some internet bully? And don't say its all joke,s because I know it hasnt been all jokes with me. And even if it was, when a person says they don't like he joke, you don't double down on the joke with that person . Only a complete asshole does that man. How does anyone think that behavior is funny? How do you think its acceptable? How come you have not more often said exactly what Hizzy just said when HCP so often exhibits this behavior You have MADE it all a mountain out of a mole hill, buy enabling his antics into thinking he can treat anyone however he wants without any recourse.

But so many other posters are told to keep it about the post, not the poster.

You can make excuses, sidestep, ignore my comments and try to move the goalposts like you have in the past. The end result is your boy is the root of the drama when he does this and you have not done enough to admonish his behavior compared to how hard you have come down on others for similar behavior.


Problem I have is most of your mods are just like you and actually support and enable his behavior to the point that HCP thinks he can do no wrong, and I see that as never changing.

Im going to gracelessly bow out now. I told you you were one of the few last people who I didnt have contact with outside of here that kept me coming here and that has faded over time based on my above comments. Im going to gracelessly bow out now, as its clear with your post you think you have tried so hard to appease me while I have also realized you have not really clearly understood my complaints and either purposefully twist them around to make it look worse on me, or truly just dont comprehend what ive told you over time, but its been wrong. Proven again above by you thinking my complaint was about a specific word of foaming....

I have always told you personally and publicly on many many occasions I thought you do a great job as a mod. So you hate accusations and shit, its just more sensational drama to make me look worse and I just dont get that man. Ive got real issues with you and how you are handling this and handling HCP, but that is not even getting close to being of hate.

This is just a man forum and not enough of an emotional investment to be hateful. I walk away form shit I hate man. Unhappy? Disgruntled lately? Hell yeah.

But you will likely just say I hate you and this place a month or two from now, not really listening to anything I just said now, like you have so many times in the past...

Carry on dog. Your forum. HCP is untouchable and can trash other members he knows don't like his games and it will all be a hunky dorry safe space for him again soon enough. He can find another target and not have any more push back from me and you can continue to allow him to do his bullshit and I wont say a word. He is on ignore.

I will say this though. Some of your other mods lack... well Ill say this. How can you take a mod seriously when he claims half his opinions are facts in serious discussions?
How can you take a mod seriously when in a serious discussion about conflict, his main rebuttal is that of sarcasm?
That really lacks something to be desired... and if a mod can respond t a conflict in a more.. professional manner than using sarcasm, he is just another poster and shouldn't even be a mod.... The level of protection from some mods is not justified and neither is their response to those with complaints about HCP. They say the complaints go on and on and on and on? Well no shit when you respond in sarcasm......

Thanks for all that you DID do Jon. And I mean that. No hate.

 

[Orion Bailey]

See now everyone is making it about foaming of the mouth when it never even had anything to do with that!!! .. HAHAHA

Man. How things get soo twisted around here....

 

[RR7]

.

You often rail on personal responsibility in the OT threads in regards to different things like universal healthcare, etc. Yet for like 3-4 years now, it seems, you've been crying for the mods to do something about this. instead of you taking personal responsibility. When you can take some PERSONAL FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY and put HCP on ignore, but you double down. And double down. And double fucking down. Over and over. You ran BNM off the site. He was an awesome poster that I believe just got tired of this shit. If I'm wrong on that, apologies. Memory seems to think that's right though. Over. And over. And over. For YEARS, you could have ignored someone you don't like, but you go at it. And at it. And at it. And say, but why not tell him to do it. He doesn't fucking care like you do! He doesn't cause 40 hours of unpaid work for people like you do. You are so wound up ion all this shit, and on winning arguments, or who is liking wha, and what clique is what. Jesus fucking christ man. I'm tired enough of this place with the constant strive for who can be the most negative. But all of this shit is just sad. Good luck to you.

 

[PCmor7]

That was a really long OP that doesn't appear to have anything about me, and I'm wondering why.

I make people mad, too.

 

[RR7]

That was a really long OP that doesn't appear to have anything about me, and I'm wondering why.

I make people mad, too.

Quote it, edit your name in in different spots, and argue against those points. Job security for @SlyPokerDog. He'll thank us later

 

[PCmor7]

You often rail on personal responsibility in the OT threads in regards to different things like universal healthcare, etc. Yet for like 3-4 years now, it seems, you've been crying for the mods to do something about this. instead of you taking personal responsibility. When you can take some PERSONAL FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY and put HCP on ignore, but you double down. And double down. And double fucking down. Over and over. You ran BNM off the site. He was an awesome poster that I believe just got tired of this shit. If I'm wrong on that, apologies. Memory seems to think that's right though. Over. And over. And over. For YEARS, you could have ignored someone you don't like, but you go at it. And at it. And at it. And say, but why not tell him to do it. He doesn't fucking care like you do! He doesn't cause 40 hours of unpaid work for people like you do. You are so wound up ion all this shit, and on winning arguments, or who is liking wha, and what clique is what. Jesus fucking christ man. I'm tired enough of this place with the constant strive for who can be the most negative. But all of this shit is just sad. Good luck to you.

Looks like I picked the wrong night to quit taking amphetamines.

 

[PCmor7]

Quote it, edit your name in in different spots, and argue against those points. Job security for (you cannot see this name because of your settings. He'll thank us later

Who?

 

[bulls_with_booz]

didn't read one word

 

[wizenheimer]

didn't read one word

but posted 4

 

[Minstrel]

I'll say it Publicly now.
I was just having fun this morning with the wine thing.
Sorry. Didn't realize this had gotten this far out of hand.
Hope you all find a way to get it all sorted out.
Peace.

All of this is your fault. All. Of. It.

You did this. Sly is on the verge of retirement over what you did.

 

[PCmor7]

didn't read one word

tl; dr

 

[Minstrel]

I'm totally lost at what happened (been on vacation), but I too hope things can be worked out.

The number of non-basketball posts made in response to basketball related posts that someone doesn't agree with have got a little high for my liking, but I understand being a mod has to be hard.

I'll be totally honest--I don't even read game threads. Maybe I should, but I assume other mods are in them. Just too much venting for me to enjoy them, though I don't begrudge others their right to vent.

 

[TBpup]

I read that OB writes long posts.... then saw what may have been the longest post I've ever seen.

Okay...

 

[BonesJones]

Criticism of me and Eric is 100% fine by me. You heard it here. But that doesnt mean I wont defend Eric or myself.

The foaming at the mouth was more than simply saying Eric was "really angry". It was wrapped up in a long-winded rant stretching multiple posts where he was complaining about people complaining, that he randomly lumped Eric into. It was a shot, but I didnt view it as an insult.

My response to HCP had three sentences addressing three things:

1.) That if he takes a shot at Eric or someone in the forum, he should tag him.
2.) That he seemingly wants to seek out stuff to whine about, including our stream.
3.) Give him shit for it with a joke about how he's mad theres two Eric's on this forum more famous than him. I thought it was funny.

That's it. CC reached out to me, I went along with what he wanted, no further issues.

We all know HCP likes causing drama and panic. I think it's silly at times but it is what it is. He does deserve some blame in how people respond to it ni matter if that response is right or wrong, since he actively tries to cause a reaction. I see why OB feels the way he does, but I feel like he's not going about it in the right way.


It's also just not a big deal to me anymore. I don't buy into it like I used to, but I'll respond if he calls out what me or Eric do, much like he would if I called out his work or his coworkers. That should be expected.

But honestly, I see much worse things said to me than what's said in here. Criticism of what we do outside the forum is fine.

 

[BBert]

by the way, when I saw the thread title, my first thought was home brewing

I thought rabies

 

[BBert]

Oh FFS

 

[Tince]

Criticism of me and Eric is 100% fine by me. You heard it here. But that doesnt mean I wont defend Eric or myself.

The foaming at the mouth was more than simply saying Eric was "really angry". It was wrapped up in a long-winded rant stretching multiple posts where he was complaining about people complaining, that he randomly lumped Eric into. It was a shot, but I didnt view it as an insult.

My response to HCP had three sentences addressing three things:

1.) That if he takes a shot at Eric or someone in the forum, he should tag him.
2.) That he seemingly wants to seek out stuff to whine about, including our stream.
3.) Give him shit for it with a joke about how he's mad theres two Eric's on this forum more famous than him. I thought it was funny.

That's it. CC reached out to me, I went along with what he wanted, no further issues.

We all know HCP likes causing drama and panic. I think it's silly at times but it is what it is. He does deserve some blame in how people respond to it ni matter if that response is right or wrong, since he actively tries to cause a reaction. I see why OB feels the way he does, but I feel like he's not going about it in the right way.


It's also just not a big deal to me anymore. I don't buy into it like I used to, but I'll respond if he calls out what me or Eric do, much like he would if I called out his work or his coworkers. That should be expected.

But honestly, I see much worse things said to me than what's said in here. Criticism of what we do outside the forum is fine.

I appreciate your stance on this as it's the right stance given the amount of pot stirring and trolling you also do to cause a reaction.

 

[BonesJones]

I appreciate your stance on this as it's the right stance given the amount of pot stirring and trolling you also do to cause a reaction.

This post is an example of why that's actually you

 

[hoopsjock]

Sounds like I need to address a few things going on in the forum.


Friday I sat down at my desk with my morning coffee and logged into the internets and when I visited the forum I had a PM from Chris Craig waiting for me.


“Heads Up! There are some problems in the forum. HCP posted some things and Bones and OB are upset about it. I’m talking to everyone in PM and deleted some posts.”


(Not an exact quote but close enough.)


*Sips coffee*


1st thought: Fuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkk more OB and HCP drama.


2nd thought: God damn I love CC. He’s handling things perfectly and doesn’t look like I need to be involved.

Now let me just stop here for a moment. I ask all of the staff to be more like firefighters than police. Meaning to focus on putting out “fires” like these in the forum. CC was doing exactly that. Stop the arguing in the forum.


Also let me say that OB can be a very passionate person at times. When he gets upset he can write and drop a couple of thousands words on you easier than I drop a poo after my morning coffee. His PMs are very long and can and have demanded hours of staff time to properly address. Without exaggeration just about every staff member has spent at least 40 hours of their personal time addressing OBs PMs. It’s impressive and awe inspiring. I can not thank them enough for the 100s of hours they devote to this place for free. I don’t think you guys have any idea the amount of work they put in.


Back to our story:


Immediately replied back to telling him good job. But also I told Chris,


“If OB gets in one of his moods you can always throw me under the bus. You can tell him I told you to delete the posts. Whatever you need. I don't want this coming between yours and OB's friendship.”


Because added into all of this Chris and OB are very good friends outside of this forum. I think Chris even helped OB move to his new house. That’s the ultimate demonstration of friendship in my book. I was very sincere in not wanting this to strain their friendship.

Chris replied, "It's all good dog. He's my friend but I'm not going to let him try to shame me for doing my job."

I then told Chris that I had some things to take care of and would not be around for a few hours. (Had to help my stepdaughter return a broken washing machine one day past warranty to Best Buy, lol)

When I got home Chris filled me in on what was going on. Chris talked to OB and Bones. I don’t know what exactly was said, don’t need to.


Chris did share with me some of what OB was upset about and his reply to OB about it. It’s private so I will not share but Chris did a great job.


One thing Chris wanted to do was publicly address HCP about his post that OB was upset about but felt that he couldn’t because of the previous efforts to get HCP fired from his job.


This is where Chris and I disagreed.


I’m sharing this because while everyone on staff does an amazing job these things can be difficult and we don’t always agree.


Here is the post from HCP that got OB so very upset and got deleted:

It's easy for those who get fucking irate EVERY game thread just to get mad at those who don't let it get to them. It's easy to call them "apologists" I think I saw that term being tossed a t some on here who try to stay positive. Like it's BAD thing to not get all fucking pissed EVERY night. I clicked on those two guys on here who have a youtube podcast and the hoop jocks guy was literally foaming at the mouth he was screaming so bad about Stotts. It was hilarious.


Lighten up, enjoy the game. We'll get a new coach someday and then you guys can find something else to bitch about.​

So here is where Chris and I had a difference of opinion:


Is saying that Hoopsjock was foaming at the mouth a personal insult?


This is what OB is very upset about. This is why OB wants HCP to be publicly admonished.


I do not think that this is a personal insult. Therefore I do not think that HCP needs to be admonished publicly for posting it.


I try to keep the personal insult rule very simple, often when I’m skimming through threads I look for the format of “You are a ______” You are an idiot. You are a fucker. These are very easy to spot and take care of. But I take foaming at the mouth to mean the same as being upset, mad, angry, pissed off. And is saying that someone is upset, mad, angry, or pissed off an insult?


I am going to call out HCP for his misuse of literally.


So Chris and I had a long discussion about what personal insults are and if this rises to trashing what Bones and Hoopjock do with their vidcast.


While these discussions can be very time consuming all of you should be happy that we have them and are always trying to find the fairest and best ways to keep this place running. There is no playbook for this. Often new situations arise that we are unsure how to handle or deal with or that we are not in agreement on how to handle or deal with. Sometimes we know that no matter how or what we do we are going to piss someone(s) off badly.


The following is my opinion, not one shared by all the staff and because of that I feel it’s important to share with you all.


Is saying that someone is foaming at the mouth an insult?


As I already stated above I do not believe it is.


“Okay but everyone disagrees with you so you’re wrong you dumb dog, do something!”


Something was done. The post was deleted. Just because I don’t agree it doesn’t mean I’ll undercut others on staff and undo their decisions. I know their hearts and heads are in the right place so I’m not fucking with it.


“Bones and Hoops are working hard on their vidcasts and it’s not fair to criticize them.”


I LOVE WHAT BONES AND HOOPS ARE DOING! I like them personally, I think they are doing an amazing job. I’ve watched and been so impressed with the work and dedication they’ve put into this. They continue to get more and more viewers. And at the rate they’re going I can see them going on to bigger and better things.


“But if you like it so much why let HCP trash them?”


Because I think that being the critical voice of the Blazers is the niche they are trying to fill. Since our partnership with the Blazers started the organization has brought some of the more Blazer related social media presences together over the years. Pinwheel Empire, Blazer Gang, and others are very pro Blazers and don’t really provide a critical opinion about the team. Hoops and Bones are filling a huge void and doing it successfully. To some that comes off as being angry. I have seen some of the criticism they take on twitter. Whether intentional or not I look at them as being a bit like the Steven A Smith voice in the Blazer universe. Does everyone like SAS? No. Is SAS very good and successful at what he does? Oh yes. From a business standpoint what Bones and Hoops are doing immediately stands out and in social media that is a good thing.


But also Dan Marang got his start in this forum and is still a member here. Because of that should we not be allowed to complain or criticize what he does on Blazer Outsiders?


The head of Blazer broadcasting has been very good to this forum over the years. Does that mean we should be allowed to criticize the Blazer broadcasts?


Ben Golliver has posted in this forum does that mean we can’t be critical about what he writes?

• By Ben Golliver

This is difficult and not a black and white thing to figure out how to deal with.


Personally, and I told Chris this, if I were Bones and Hoops I would have laughed at what HCP said and used it. I would be throwing it out there on social media something like, “Check out BlazersUprise, the vidcast so truthful that it was labeled Foaming Mad by Blazer Broadcasting!”


(Hey Bones and Hoops, if you use this I demand a jack and coke as payment)


They can be critical of the Blazers and that criticism has been noticed by more than one in the organization. That is not a bad thing.


For right now, personal insults against Bones and Hoops not allowed, complaints about what they’re doing outside of this forum? I guess we’re going to have to discuss this more as a community and staff and take things on a case by case basis because I don’t want Bones and Hoops to ever feel they are not welcome or wanted here.


…


Now Mr Orion Bailey….


OB has 4 great dislikes in the world, HCP, me, dogs, and broccoli. (okay, the last two are made up.)


OB HATES HCP!


And OB thinks I’m the suckiest sucking sucker to ever run a forum.


Some of his complaints about me are fair and accurate. Some I do not agree with but I do listen to them and try to understand where he’s coming from.


But OB has directly or indirectly has been involved in two incidents that have resulted in HCP getting in trouble with his employer.


OB vehemently denies any involvement in letters being written to the Blazers about HCP.


But also OB has always been concerned that he will be blamed for the letters being sent to the Blazers.


OB has continually stated privately and publicly that I do not “call out” HCP in public and that I treat HCP differently than I treat others.


OB is not wrong on something but HCP has been "called out" and I also think this criticism of me is not fair or accurate.

There are often not black and white ways to deal with things in the forum. They require new or different ways to handle some of the problems that come up.


One thing that OB is not telling you is that he is the recipient of my trying to solve problems in a new and unique way that I have never done for anyone else. I tried something new that I have never done before and that I pretty much guarantee that no forum does.


After the 2nd letter to HCP’s employer became forum knowledge that led to some very heated conversations between OB and myself privately. I’m not going to rehash all of this. Bottomline I needed the shit between HCP and OB to stop and stop now. OB took this to mean that I’m treating HCP differently and that suddenly I didn’t like OB. So for the first time ever I had Chris Craig arrange a conference call between him, OB, and myself. I did this to personally communicate to OB I like him, this is not personal, but that this crap between him HCP could cause harm to our relationship with the Blazers and HAS TO STOP NOW!


There are either one of two things going on here:


Either OB is writing to the Blazers to get HCP in trouble.


0r


Someone is using these never ending hostilities between OB and HCP to get HCP in trouble to make it look like OB is behind it.


The only solution to this is get OB and HCP to leave each other the fuck alone!


I thought it was a very productive conversation with OB and he agreed to leave HCP alone. I also talked to HCP and told him to leave OB alone.


OB has not honored this agreement.


OB wanted HCP to stop with the new member hazing and as far as I can tell he has.


OB has not stopped privately contacting HCP or complaining about him publicly even when it doesn’t have a damn thing to do with him.


This foaming mouth incident has absolutely nothing to do with OB and yet here is OB publicly calling out HCP, complaining about him, complaining about me.


Why are you doing this OB?


Why are you involving yourself with shit that doesn’t have to do with you?


And more importantly why in the hell are you putting yourself in a position according to you to be the fall guy for a new nasty gram to the Blazers about HCP? You’ve put out some very strong suggestions and/or justifications for someone to throw HCP under the bus to the Blazers over this both publicly and privately the last couple of days and dude, that is fucked up.


OB you have to see that I’m trying here. That I have worked very hard many times to communicate with you. I have listened to you and validated some of your complaints.


I agree that the hazing of new members by HCP has to stop and it has.


I need you to stop with this HCP obsession.


It’s harmful to HCP.

It’s been harmful to you.

And it’s harmful to this community.


Please.

Here's my thoughts Sly...

Totally couldn't care less what @THE HCP says good or bad about the show. Obviously, I'd love for him to enjoy watching it but I know we're not for everyone. I agree that it should be fair game to criticize. I welcome all criticism. I do find it kind of weird that he's come into a couple streams and joked around with us and acts all cool but then talks shit about it later, but it's whatever. The funny thing is I had no idea he even mentioned me until I saw this thread. He could at least tag me if he's gonna talk about me so I see it.

The thing I have a problem with (kinda speaking for @BonesJones too) is that we haven't really done much on here lately in terms of contributing to, in HCP's words, "the last 6 months of this place going downhill" (and yes I'm aware that it's a joke). It's fucking annoying to still be listed as one of the problems of the forum when I honestly can't even remember the last time I got into it with someone on here or said anything insulting to anyone since Riverman and I got into it quite some time ago. I haven't been in game threads making this place "unbearable." I think even people that don't like me can acknowledge that I haven't been causing a single issue. So my problem with his post is lumping stuff we say on the show with people causing issues in this forum. I don't believe that correlation is fair and I think that it should be called out if he tries to imply that something we say on the show has anything to do with how people not related to the show post in game threads.

On a side note Sly, comparing us to Stephen A Smith implies that we just have hot takes meant to rile up as many people as possible. I know you were more comparing him being successful but let me just state some things for the record. Bones and I aren't doing this specifically to be critical or provide a niche. We're not trying to be anything on purpose. We watch the games and just say what we think. We're passionate about the Blazers so when we're mad about something it comes across that way. Honestly, nights like tonight are therapeutic to get it all out and have an avenue to do so without bottling it in and then I feel much better after the streams. For me it's nothing more than going on and talking Blazers with Torey. If people enjoy watching then great! If people think we're too over the top or too negative then that is okay too. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or force them to think my way. I've had a lot of people tell me that they've learned a lot about the game of basketball or what to look for while watching or whatever and that's really rewarding to hear that kind of stuff! At the same time we've been called every name in the book by some of the people you've mentioned and plenty of other Blazer media and big Blazer social media accounts. I really don't care if Blazers Outsiders or whoever likes the coach, that's their right. I think a lot of people feel threatened by us because we encourage people to think for themselves and not just accept the usual status quo "everyone is awesome" type content that they usually get from Blazer related media. We're just doing our thing.

 

[Tince]

This post is an example of why that's actually you

Thanks again for reaching out to me during the game. Sorry I was unavailable for a real time response, assuming your question was genuine. Looking forward to you asking me the same quesetion after a win. Also, glad you're doing well today, I think that's a good sign.

 

[perkinsfor3]

Because we needed the visual...
View attachment 38125

 

[bulls_with_booz]

but posted 4

golden ratio

 

[kjironman1]

All of this is your fault. All. Of. It.

You did this. Sly is on the verge of retirement over what you did.

He'll have plenty of time to drink wine then.

 

[SIeepwalker]

But OB has directly or indirectly has been involved in two incidents that have resulted in HCP getting in trouble with his employer.

That's fucked up.

 

[SIeepwalker]

I don't get how people can get that mad about something some random dude posts on an online forum

thanks to @SlyPokerDog and all the mods for their work, I think they do a great job.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Sorry, why are we even talking about this silly nonsense instead of the bigger issue?

Why is anyone trying to fuck with how a guy feeds his family over a damn message board?