For anyone thinking Israel is showing restraint and only targeting Hamas

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Denny's real name is Denny Yoseph Cranestein.
 
AmirIcon said:
Hooray for you. You're okay with killing innocent civilians despite them being the ones that are oppressed according to the U.N.

If someone said the same thing about the Israelis, it would be considered antisemitic. Congrats.
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Those innocent people choose to put Hamas in charge with their votes. They voted to send these rocket to Israel, there can be no question of these facts.
They get what the ask for, perhaps more is in order.
 
Israel isn't going to pack their bags and leave the region, no matter how stupid or unjust the formation of their country was. So either one side is going to wipe the other out (and we all know which side would win), or there will be constant petty warefare, or the people are going to have to get sick and tired of the violence and stop instigating it. I believe Israel would be content to just let Gaza alone if they stopped the terrorism. Afterall, they did pull out of Gaza and allowed them self-governence.
 
Sinobas said:
Israel isn't going to pack their bags and leave the region, no matter how stupid or unjust the formation of their country was. So either

A: one side is going to wipe the other out (and we all know which side would win), or
B: there will be constant petty warefare, or
C: the people are going to have to get sick and tired of the violence and stop instigating it.

I believe Israel would be content to just let Gaza alone if they stopped the terrorism. Afterall, they did pull out of Gaza and allowed them self-governence.
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I'll take B for 1000 (years).

barfo
 
Sinobas said:
Israel isn't going to pack their bags and leave the region, no matter how stupid or unjust the formation of their country was. So either one side is going to wipe the other out (and we all know which side would win), or there will be constant petty warefare, or the people are going to have to get sick and tired of the violence and stop instigating it. I believe Israel would be content to just let Gaza alone if they stopped the terrorism. Afterall, they did pull out of Gaza and allowed them self-governence.
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Ha! Jews in Israel, imagine that! Unjust? Go figure.
 
AmerIcon, I'm probably the only Aryan here besides you. About 3 years ago several posters were arguing against Israel and Maxiep was holding the fort alone for Israel. I knew that he wouldn't walk away, so I posted to tell him I knew he had religious motive, and he wasn't going to compromise, so I wouldn't be posting. He posted thank you, then continued with the others.

I think he then put me on Ignore. I should have known I'd wind up on the short end of any deal with one of the Israeli persuasion. They could sell lobster chowder to a tuna.
 
jlprk said:
AmerIcon, I'm probably the only Aryan here besides you. About 3 years ago several posters were arguing against Israel and Maxiep was holding the fort alone for Israel. I knew that he wouldn't walk away, so I posted to tell him I knew he had religious motive, and he wasn't going to compromise, so I wouldn't be posting. He posted thank you, then continued with the others.

I think he then put me on Ignore. I should have known I'd wind up on the short end of any deal with one of the Israeli persuasion. They could sell lobster chowder to a tuna.
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I think it's important to separate Judaism from Zionism. I'm actually really impressed by how many Jews across this country and the world have come out against the Zionist regime that is Israel. Really impressed.

It's unfortunate people can't separate the two but it's all they know. I really recommend watching the video I linked to the former Israeli soldier. Amazing stuff.
 
Palestinians have watched as their territory has decreased in size because of illegal Israeli settlements. I don't know how anyone could side with what Israel is doing. According to the U.N., Israel continues to build illegal Israeli settlements, steal water from the Palestinians, and restrict the flow of food into the country, making the number of calories going to each person in Gaza significantly less than what goes to the Israelis. It kind of reminds me what's happening with the size/strength of North Koreans vs South.
 
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Zionism is merely the belief that Israel should exist.

If you think Israel is going away, you're living in fantasy land.

Zionist is no loaded word or bad in any way.
 
AmirIcon said:
Palestinians have watched as their territory has decreased in size because of illegal Israeli settlements. I don't know how anyone could side with what Israel is doing. According to the U.N., Israel continues to build illegal Israeli settlements, steal water from the Palestinians, and restrict the flow of food into the country, making the number of calories going to each person in Gaza significantly less than what goes to the Israelis. It kind of reminds me what's happening with the size/strength of North Koreans vs South.
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North Korea? You take their side too?
 
AmirIcon said:
Palestinians have watched as their territory has decreased in size because of illegal Israeli settlements. I don't know how anyone could side with what Israel is doing. According to the U.N., Israel continues to build illegal Israeli settlements, steal water from the Palestinians, and restrict the flow of food into the country, making the number of calories going to each person in Gaza significantly less than what goes to the Israelis. It kind of reminds me what's happening with the size/strength of North Koreans vs South.
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Hey, I know you are just trolling. Its obvious by the outlandish statements that you make and your half truths that you base your argument upon. Could you do me a little favor? Pick a subject that is not so easily defended, and maybe I will find the interest to join in.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
Hey, I know you are just trolling. Its obvious by the outlandish statements that you make and your half truths that you base your argument upon. Could you do me a little favor? Pick a subject that is not so easily defended, and maybe I will find the interest to join in.
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Nobody is trolling other than the Israeli government. All I have said have been full-truths. You should be outraged that the Israeli government are taking part in these kinds of tactics for decades.

Guess who else agrees?

Stephen Hawking's decision to boycott the Israeli president's conference has gone viral. Over 100,000 Facebook shares of the Guardian report at last count. Whatever the subsequent fuss, Hawking's letter is unequivocal. His refusal was made because of requests from Palestinian academics.
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Big ups to Stephen Hawking.
 
Just a couple brief thoughts AmirIcon.

1) The us does not support Israel because of the Jewish lobby, if anything it's because of the much larger Christian base, much of which believes the Jews need to be there in order for certain rapture prophecies to come true. Also, the US was involved in the creation of Israel, so there is some responsibility there.

2) The Palestinians got screwed first by the creation of Israel, then by all their neighboring countries who would not open their borders to them. Also, any Palestinians that did not leave on their own accord were not forced out, the were allowed to stay and even thrive in Israel.

3) I don't have any answers.. However I think it's disingenuous to lay all the blame on either nation. But it pisses me off that so much aid has been sent to the Palestinians to make them one of the wealthier peoples around but they pissed away a bright future in order to hold onto the past and be violent.

4) if you keep getting rockets shot at you, even if they are poorly aimed and many are caught in defensive nets, eventually you have to attack back and physically try and stop the attacks from continuing. I believe this point is obvious and it was the intent of Hamas. They wanted to force Israel to attack, then place civilians around their offensive systems in order to get them killed and make Israel look bad in the press.

5) Hamas are shitheads, The Israel government are not blameless, but nowhere near ad bad. But the victims are the two civilian populations.
 
AmirIcon said:
And the U.S. isn't? Seriously? The U.N. voted on recognizing Palestine as its own state and the only two states that didn't recognize it was the U.S. and Israel. ALL of those countries are on the wrong side of this issue, right?
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Let me know when the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist. Then we can talk. Until then, the Palestinians have no one to blame for their plight but themselves.
 
AmirIcon said:
Even those within the Israeli government admit Arafat had no choice but to walk away from the horrid deal the Israelis were offering. Try reading something other than Zionist propaganda.
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Hilarious. In the Oslo Accords, the PLO got 99% of what they wanted. Israel was strong-armed by the Clinton Administration. And yet, the Palestinians still couldn't accept victory. It's like they say: The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Recognize Israel's right to exist and allow Israel to have Jerusalem as its capital and the Palestinians could have everything they ever wanted. Oh, wait...what the Palestinians really want is for Israel to not exist. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a sticking point for the Israelis.
 
I blame Bill Clinton for this. He treated Yassir Arafat like a head of state rather than a head of a terrorist organization.
 
Arafat wasn't a palestinian, he was an egyptian. I wonder how many actual palestinians there really are.
 
Further said:
3) I don't have any answers.. However I think it's disingenuous to lay all the blame on either nation. But it pisses me off that so much aid has been sent to the Palestinians to make them one of the wealthier peoples around but they pissed away a bright future in order to hold onto the past and be violent.
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I agree with you. Both nations are to blame as I find both governments to be terrorist governments in their own right. Netanyahu is Israel's Putin and he's playing the U.S. like a fiddle. Hamas is allowing its citizens to die for what they deem to be a greater cause. Corrupt governments screw their people and I think most Arab leaders have done that fairly successfully, because they know that if they don't go with the program, they'll be taken down by a super power, IE Mossadegh, The Shah, etc. Do we have figures on how much Gaza receives in comparison to Israel?

4) if you keep getting rockets shot at you, even if they are poorly aimed and many are caught in defensive nets, eventually you have to attack back and physically try and stop the attacks from continuing. I believe this point is obvious and it was the intent of Hamas. They wanted to force Israel to attack, then place civilians around their offensive systems in order to get them killed and make Israel look bad in the press.
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That's about right. It goes deeper than that however. I think they actually want the perception to lead to policy change, which I think is absolutely necessary. Israel cannot keep restricting the flow of water, food, and basic medications to get into the territory. That's an apartheid state.

5) Hamas are shitheads, The Israel government are not blameless, but nowhere near ad bad. But the victims are the two civilian populations.
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I don't agree. I think they are pretty equally as bad. Hamas is showing even before this war that they don't know how to govern. But, world opinion seems to be changing right now which you can't dismiss. Hopefully it leads to some policy change.
 
maxiep said:
Let me know when the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist. Then we can talk. Until then, the Palestinians have no one to blame for their plight but themselves.
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They do. Ask Abbas. Hamas does not = the Palestinian people. Even before this the Palestinian people didn't like Hamas.

Keep up the straw man arguments.
 
maxiep said:
Hilarious. In the Oslo Accords, the PLO got 99% of what they wanted. Israel was strong-armed by the Clinton Administration. And yet, the Palestinians still couldn't accept victory. It's like they say: The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
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LMAO. Paraphrase much? 99%??? Settle down, Nancy Grace.

Recognize Israel's right to exist and allow Israel to have Jerusalem as its capital and the Palestinians could have everything they ever wanted. Oh, wait...what the Palestinians really want is for Israel to not exist. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a sticking point for the Israelis.
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Ummm, what? Israel & the U.S. just voted at the U.N. to NOT recognize Palestine with the right to exist so how can you ask for the same? By the way, those were the only two nations that voted on that. The rest of the world concurrently took a shit on that notion.
 
BlazerWookee said:
He was the head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
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From WikiPedia:

2014-07-29%20at%204.54%20AM.png
 
AmirIcon said:
Try telling these guys that. [video]
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Try telling you that Zionism means

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, translit. Tsiyonut) is a nationalist movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the creation of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the Land of Israel.[1]
 
AmirIcon said:
They do. Ask Abbas. Hamas does not = the Palestinian people. Even before this the Palestinian people didn't like Hamas.

Keep up the straw man arguments.
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Actions speak louder than words. If Hamas doesn't speak for the Palestinians, then why do they not oppose their rocket attacks? Any legitimate government that claims to speak for its people should be able to handle these attacks on a sovereign country internally.

And of course Abbas is going to speak against Hamas. He is the leader of Fatah, who have been in a power struggle with Hamas since the 2007 battle for Gaza.
 
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