OT Free Agency Round The League (3 Viewers)

[CupWizier]

Among point guards.

You should get more into analytics. They'd tell you Dame and CJ will never work. They'd also make what I'm saying more believable, seeing as how they're, well, facts.

Defensive rankings are all over the place as there is no real good measure other than the eye test. Do you think Patty Mills is a better defender than Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo and Klay Thompson? They are all rated below Mills.

 

[CupWizier]

That is a tired, false excuse. They could've easily rolled the cap space over one more year by delaying the CJ extension.

McCollum's extension didn't come into effect against the cap till the following year.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

Defensive rankings are all over the place as there is no real good measure other than the eye test..

Holy lord, you could not be further from the truth my friend

 

[CupWizier]

Holy lord, you could not be further from the truth my friend

and yet you didn't address the players that I said were listed on an NBA website as inferior defenders to Patty Mills? Do you think they are inferior defenders to Mills?

 

[tester551]

McCollum's extension didn't come into effect against the cap till the following year.

Exactly. But that is why we wouldn't have been able to roll the space over.

By giving and extension fall of '16, they had no chance to have money to play with July 1 of 2017.

If Portland would've not signed AC, Turner, Meyers, & CJ (or just signed someone for 1 year deals like they ALMOST did with Ezeili) -> they could've had approximately $25M to play with last summer when there were lots of good options available.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

and yet you didn't address the players that I said were listed on an NBA website as inferior defenders to Patty Mills? Do you think they are inferior defenders to Mills?

Patty Mills is 87th among point guards in DRPM. He’s literally one of the worst in the NBA. where are you getting your stats from buddy. Just stop while you’re way behind. You’re wrong. Flat out. Sorry

 

[A$AP Meyers]

I’m honestly not trying to be an asshole , and I’m willing to admit I say a lot of stupid shit and I’m wrong a LOT. but to deny analytics and then to say the eye test is the only way to measure defense is absolutely asinine.

It’s a literal fact that Ball is one of the best defenders in the NBA at the PG position

 

[CupWizier]

Patty Mills is 87th among point guards in DRPM. He’s literally one of the worst in the NBA. where are you getting your stats from buddy. Just stop while you’re way behind. You’re wrong. Flat out. Sorry

You just made my point. Defensive rankings are all over the place depending on what site you want to use. I arbitrarily just chose one site to look at and that's how it came out. These are facts so they can't be disputed right?

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats...&pos=1&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=2

In this one, Lillards defensive rating is better than Balls.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defen...18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=G

 

[noknobs]

That is a tired, false excuse. They could've easily rolled the cap space over one more year by delaying the CJ extension.

When they signed CJ to the extension the cap space was already gone, so I don't know how delaying his extension would have helped.

If you're saying that they shouldn't have signed anyone OR signed CJ to an extension that summer, then that's pretty absurd.

They had a bunch of money to spend the year before even after adding Aminu/Davis, and ended up not using it. But that team was young and rebuilding. If they’d have not spent cap space in 2016, following the surprise year they just had, this message board would have been as pissed as it is right now.

How do you think the fanbase would have reacted to not spending 25+m in cap space?

Not to mention they only had 7 players under contract so they had to do something. And once the cap space was used it made total sense to do the extension. CJ would have been getting the max the next year so signing the extension when we did eliminated the possibility of a poison pill contract or letting some other team determine the details of the contract.

It’s easy to play monday morning quarterback now…

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

When they signed CJ to the extension the cap space was already gone, so I don't know how delaying his extension would have helped.

If you're saying that they shouldn't have signed anyone OR signed CJ to an extension that summer, then that's pretty absurd.

They had a bunch of money to spend the year before even after adding Aminu/Davis, and ended up not using it. But that team was young and rebuilding. If they’d have not spent cap space in 2016, following the surprise year they just had, this message board would have been as pissed as it is right now.

How do you think the fanbase would have reacted to not spending 25+m in cap space?

Not to mention they only had 7 players under contract so they had to do something. And once the cap space was used it made total sense to do the extension. CJ would have been getting the max the next year so signing the extension when we did eliminated the possibility of a poison pill contract or letting some other team determine the details of the contract.

It’s easy to play monday morning quarterback now…

The problem with 2016 was not only was the per year numbers insane, they signed all those guys for 4 years. Think about that, even if the numbers per year were the same and those were two year deals were all speaking a lot differently.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

You just made my point. Defensive rankings are all over the place depending on what site you want to use. I arbitrarily just chose one site to look at and that's how it came out. These are facts so they can't be disputed right?

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats...&pos=1&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=2

In this one, Lillards defensive rating is better than Balls.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=G

All defensive rating is is points allowed per 100 possession when a given player is on the floor. It is not a good indication of individual defense. In fact, it’s much more reflective of the defensive efficiency of the unit that a given player plays most with. It’s no surprise Dame’s defensive rating greatly improved this season, we added Jusuf Nurkic who has proved to be an above average defender at the center position. There are much better analytics out there.


This is a dead end argument dude. It’s not worth either of our time. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[H.C.]

I’m honestly not trying to be an asshole , and I’m willing to admit I say a lot of stupid shit and I’m wrong a LOT. but to deny analytics and then to say the eye test is the only way to measure defense is absolutely asinine.

It’s a literal fact that Ball is one of the best defenders in the NBA at the PG position

Lonzo ball is projecting to be Ricky Rubio lite.
Saying otherwise is having blind homer-ism. Or blind hatred.


But posting you'd trade Lillard for Lonzo+Ingram or kuzma and 25-30th picks is dumb.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

Lonzo ball is projecting to be Ricky Rubio lite.
Saying otherwise is having blind homer-ism. Or blind hatred.


But posting you'd trade Lillard for Lonzo+Ingram or kuzma and 25-30th picks is dumb.

And two first round picks? That’s robbery

 

[H.C.]

And two first round picks? That’s robbery

Yeah. Robbery when those two first rounders are fall around the 25 - 30th pick.
That's dumb as fuck.
top 10 pick cause Portland would suck.
And the Lakers bottom 5 pick.

Yeah robbery...

More like awful value.

 

[CupWizier]

All defensive rating is is points allowed per 100 possession when a given player is on the floor. It is not a good indication of individual defense. In fact, it’s much more reflective of the defensive efficiency of the unit that a given player plays most with. It’s no surprise Dame’s defensive rating greatly improved this season, we added Jusuf Nurkic who has proved to be an above average defender at the center position. There are much better analytics out there.


This is a dead end argument dude. It’s not worth either of our time. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree I suppose.

Right, so let me just toss out a couple names and without looking up any stats. Who is the better defender, Wes Mathews or CJ McCollum? just use that great NBA knowledge you have.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

Right, so let me just toss out a couple names and without looking up any stats. Who is the better defender, Wes Mathews or CJ McCollum? just use that great NBA knowledge you have.

They both suck. Wes was elite and then he suffered one of the worst injuries in basketball. I’d probably still say Wes though because of competitiveness/basketball IQ

 

[A$AP Meyers]

Yeah. Robbery when those two first rounders are fall around the 25 - 30th pick.
That's dumb as fuck.
top 10 pick cause Portland would suck.
And the Lakers bottom 5 pick.

Yeah robbery...

More like awful value.

That’s incredible value regardless. Two 20 yr olds both with extremely high upside and all-star potential + 2 first round picks for a 29 year old all star point guard. You’re thinking too much about right now instead of a few years from now.

You’re overvaluing Dame and undervaluing the others.

 

[KingSpeed]

Among point guards.

You should get more into analytics. They'd tell you Dame and CJ will never work. They'd also make what I'm saying more believable, seeing as how they're, well, facts.

We were one of the best defensive teams in the NBA last year with Dame & CJ. We could win with them. It's all about putting the right people with them.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

You should just say you hate the deal. That’s fine.

There’s value for both teams in that deal though.

 

[Propagandist]

Such a stupid response. If you were in Denvers shoes would you help a division rival get better or send the player east?

Baa baa...

 

[jlprk]

We were one of the best defensive teams in the NBA last year.

This is the 10,000th time you've posted that. Didn't you post it today in another thread? Either then or yesterday.

Nobody in the league believes your stat, using the eyeball method. I watch free internet games, usually getting the opposing sportscasters, and they often ridicule our defense in embarrassing plays.

 

[Propagandist]

Nylon Calculus has him as a 98th percentile defender and his Defensive RPM was 3rd among point guards this season at 2.31.

The analytics suggest he's well on his way to being an elite defender, if he isn't already. Not to mention he's already an elite rebounder relative to the rest of the leagues point guards.

People just love to hate on him because he went through a really bad cold stretch shooting last season, and his dad has a big mouth. He is going to be an excellent player.

Disagreeing is different than belittling. If this were a fight, you won this round.

 

[BonesJones]

This is the 10,000th time you've posted that. Didn't you post it today in another thread? Either then or yesterday.

Nobody in the league believes your stat, using the eyeball method. I watch free internet games, usually getting the opposing sportscasters, and they often ridicule our defense in embarrassing plays.

That's totally more valid than a full sample size of statiscal evidence....

 

[CupWizier]

They both suck. Wes was elite and then he suffered one of the worst injuries in basketball. I’d probably still say Wes though because of competitiveness/basketball IQ

Not according to your advanced stats.

 

[BonesJones]

That’s incredible value regardless. Two 20 yr olds both with extremely high upside and all-star potential + 2 first round picks for a 29 year old all star point guard. You’re thinking too much about right now instead of a few years from now.

You’re overvaluing Dame and undervaluing the others.

False. Neither of those guys are likely to be all-stars and wont represent Portland well, and those picks will be late 1sts. All for a super-star, 1st-team guy who's a great representative and wants to be here.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

You dont deal Dame right now. Offer CJ to the Lakers for something like Ingram, Deng and Ball. Then offer Dame to someone like Phx with a top 5 pick next year and Josh Jackson that may think Dame will put them into contention with Booker and Ayton.

 

[A$AP Meyers]

Not according to your advanced stats.

Which part?

And yeah, further proof the eye test is useless

 

[Hobbesarable]

You dont deal Dame right now. Offer CJ to the Lakers for something like Ingram, Deng and Ball. Then offer Dame to someone like Phx with a top 5 pick next year and Josh Jackson that may think Dame will put them into contention with Booker and Ayton.

I would rather send CJ to Atlanta for a cache of picks.

 

[H.C.]

That’s incredible value regardless. Two 20 yr olds both with extremely high upside and all-star potential + 2 first round picks for a 29 year old all star point guard. You’re thinking too much about right now instead of a few years from now.

You’re overvaluing Dame and undervaluing the others.

No. I am not thinking too much about right now.

If you really think Lonzo, or Kuzma have all-star potential.
Then you're more blind than the Portland homers who want to bring back the same roster.
Lonzo Ball is projecting to be a lesser version of Ricky Rubio.
How many all-star teams did Ricky Rubio make?
Hell if Lonzo doesn't stay healthy this year. He gets even closer to being just like Ricky Rubio.

Kuzma can score. But does that scoring make others better? Someone has to score on a shitty team.
Ingram imo has more value than either Lonzo or Kuzma. While being the only one who projects at being a possible all-star in the future.
Then you keep ignoring the fact that if you put Lillard with LBJ. That further drives down the value of the Lakers first round picks.
It will put those picks in the 25-30 range. Those are awful first round picks, and awful value for Lillard.

Basically your trade is either.
#2 overall pick who projects to be worse than Ricky Rubio & a late first rounder for a multi allstar and all nba performer in his prime. Along with two late first round picks...
Or
Two #2 overall picks for a multi allstar and all nba performer in his prime. Along with two late first round picks.

This is awful value if you look at the history of trading such players in their prime.
Thankfully you're not the GM of any team... But you do have a chance... Just apply for the Nets job.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I would rather send CJ to Atlanta for a cache of picks.

I'd be open to whatever. I love Dame, but I also know he wants to win. He won't win with us as currently constructed. Unless Neil pulls off some shit and brings someone like Love here without giving up Nurk, CJ or Dame (I dont see that letting us beat GSW, but I'd take it to see us reach the 2nd round). I'd like to see Dame win somewhere.

CJ or Dame are a perfect fit next to Lebron tbh.