Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

[rotary111]

So we just need armed guards at every

School
Store
Bar
Restaurant
Concert
Church
Business
Street corner

And then we will be safe.

Don't forget to kiss your gun goodnight tonight.

Just a couple more hours and we will all just move on.....Sad.

 

[riverman]

So people with mental disorders and antisocial or violent tendencies are more likely to be found and treated.

translation....they are unable to buy guns. As to access to the other stuff you mentioned....that's not why mentally ill can have access to as many weapons and as much ammo as they can afford to purchase......people with mental disorders are not found by social services in most places on earth....to assume that having an insurance card or rehab facility available will solve mass killings is a stretch...people need to face the facts that weapons access in this country is contributing to violent crime and murder....not the health industry, the gun for profit industry. Not every teenager or young adult with heavy anger and rage issues is going to kill people but you can't hospitalize every teen with rage ......you can keep them from purchasing weapons.

 

[Phatguysrule]

A person can't go buy a half gallon of vodka and drink themselves to death at 18, but they can go buy an AR-15 and shoot up a school. Can we raise the age restrictions on weapons? Buffalo and Uvalde were done by kids. Their brains aren't even close to developed. If you want to shoot a gun, go into the military. If the asvab rejects you, you have to wait until your 25. Idk. I'm at such a loss this morning I just want to find a solution.. Something has to be done!!

The problem is that an ar15 is just an underpowered hunting rifle. And rifles kill fewer Americans per year than blunt objects do (like clubs, hammers, etc).

This kid had a hand gun, which is far more deadly in a school shooting situation than an AR (more compact, easier to aim and maneuver indoors). And you have to be 21 to buy and carry a handgun in Texas.

Further, if guns weren't available for purchase these kids could very easily 3d print them in a week or so... Or buy a nearly complete lower (which is not yet considered a gun, and can not be regulated as such) and finish it on their dad's drill press. It's not hard. At all.

There are just too many arguments against gun control and too little evidence that gun control can be effective enough to make any meaningful difference. Even the most glowing reviews of the assault weapons ban say it may have prevented 10 mass shootings over a decade. So would would get us from like 400 per year to 399?

Is that really a statistically significant enough number to make a compelling argument to remove access to the most popular sporting rifle in the world? Not even close.

You aren't going to actually prevent these from happening until you start addressing why these kids want to do this kind of thing. And we aren't going to do that until we stop playing politics with this issue.

But the politicians will not do that unless we force them to. Us clamoring for increase gun control or restrictions is just playing right into what they want us to do.

Us vs them, my team vs your team, emotionally charged claim begets emotionally charged response. $$$$$$

 

[riverman]

There are just too many arguments against gun control and too little evidence that gun control can be effective enough to make any meaningful difference.

I've given you examples of places where it is effective enough to prevent mass shootings in public..why do you act like that's not a viable solution for a safer society? I have to guess that you just really like having guns and they make you feel safe ..that doesn't mean they make the world safer. I've yet to read this week of the mass killings a crazy person with a club carried out but I've read daily about guns killing innocent people.....if clubs are more of a threat they are certainly not in the news as a problem....and in my 68 years club haven't threatened lives on any comparable scale to guns. It's just not demonstrable but you know a lot of money has been spent by the NRA to make up these stats and charts and justify hawking weapons and selling them as protection

 

[Phatguysrule]

If only there was a common denominator.

It's not surprising that the most popular gun in the world is used by bad people... How many of those had hand guns?

If you were to ban the AR people would just move the modularity to another platform.

The next most popular caliber for sporting is the 30-06.



This would not be a good thing...

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've given you examples of places where it is effective enough to prevent mass shootings in public..why do you act like that's not a viable solution for a safer society? I have to guess that you just really like having guns and they make you feel safe ..that doesn't mean they make the world safer.

What were the numbers before gun control and after?

If you can show me that comparison we can have an honest conversation about it.

 

[riverman]

What were the numbers before gun control and after?

If you can show me that comparison we can have an honest conversation about it.

I you don't think we're having an honest conversation then we're done here....you can ignore successful gun free cultures all you want but if you aren't willing to acknowledge the success that stems from their gun laws then you are just interested in propping up the NRA line which is popular here in the states. I gave it a try but I can see this is just going to get silly....have a great day. My real life experiences around guns and gun laws is enough to make me form the opinion I have..I've lived in both systems. I'm guessing you haven't.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've given you examples of places where it is effective enough to prevent mass shootings in public..why do you act like that's not a viable solution for a safer society? I have to guess that you just really like having guns and they make you feel safe ..that doesn't mean they make the world safer. I've yet to read this week of the mass killings a crazy person with a club carried out but I've read daily about guns killing innocent people.....if clubs are more of a threat they are certainly not in the news as a problem....and in my 68 years club haven't threatened lives on any comparable scale to guns. It's just not demonstrable but you know a lot of money has been spent by the NRA to make up these stats and charts and justify hawking weapons and selling them as protection

The comparison wasn't clubs vs guns. It was deaths per year caused by blunt objects vs rifles specifically.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I you don't think we're having an honest conversation then we're done here....you can ignore successful gun free cultures all you want but if you aren't willing to acknowledge the success that stems from their gun laws then you are just interested in propping up the NRA line which is popular here in the states. I gave it a try but I can see this is just going to get silly....have a great day. My real life experiences around guns and gun laws is enough to make me form the opinion I have..I've lived in both systems. I'm guessing you haven't.

So no before and after numbers? How else are you supposed to make an honest comparison?

Again, I'm here and willing to have this conversation any time. Feel free to address it when it's not so emotional. I'm sure it would be a stimulating conversation. Sincerely.

 

[Chris Craig]

The comparison wasn't clubs vs guns. It was deaths per year caused by blunt objects vs rifles specifically.

Kids aren't going to school with blunt objects and orchestrating mass killings.

You can defend yourself against a blunt object.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've given you examples of places where it is effective enough to prevent mass shootings in public..why do you act like that's not a viable solution for a safer society? I have to guess that you just really like having guns and they make you feel safe ..that doesn't mean they make the world safer. I've yet to read this week of the mass killings a crazy person with a club carried out but I've read daily about guns killing innocent people.....if clubs are more of a threat they are certainly not in the news as a problem....and in my 68 years club haven't threatened lives on any comparable scale to guns. It's just not demonstrable but you know a lot of money has been spent by the NRA to make up these stats and charts and justify hawking weapons and selling them as protection

How much does the NRA spend on lobbying? Looks like under $5 million per year. Am I reading that right?

https://www.statista.com/statistics...onal-rifle-associaction-in-the-united-states/

Bloomberg routinely outspends the NRA... Which is fine. But it's not like the NRA money is the driving factor behind gun rights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...tspends-nra-helps-democrats-win-virginia.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=Blo...gAQHIAQnAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#ip=1

 

[Phatguysrule]

Kids aren't going to school with blunt objects and orchestrating mass killings.

You can defend yourself against a blunt object.

You can defend yourself against a gun as well... Especially if you have a gun.

 

[riverman]

So no before and after numbers? How else are you supposed to make an honest comparison?

Again, I'm here and willing to have this conversation any time. Feel free to address it when it's not so emotional. I'm sure it would be a stimulating conversation. Sincerely.

I gave you real life info about my owning a gun and being robbed with 3 guns on the street while carrying groceries home....also in my 20 years in Taiwan there were ZERO mass killings by guns and this year alone in America around 300 children have been killed by them....now what do you call that comparison? A fluke? All my life the NRA has been building a huge case to justify arming the populace with guns.....they have charts and graphs and all sorts of things you might see as truth.....my life experience and observations are my truth. I'm not selling it either nor am I overly emotional when I discuss it but yes....I'm fucking pissed about what happened yesterday and those numbers support my view on gun control. Why you would want to argue with those facts is something I won't understand no matter how much NRA propoganda you dig up

 

[illmatic99]

smh, please stop.

It can't be easier to buy a gun and ammo than it is Sudafed. This is common sense.

 

[RR7]

You can defend yourself against a gun as well... Especially if you have a gun.

So we're arming school kids then?

 

[Phatguysrule]

smh, please stop.

It can't be easier to buy a gun and ammo than it is Sudafed. This is common sense.

It's not easier to legally buy a gun and ammo than Sudafed in Oregon. It's much harder. Yet violent crime and murder have been rising ever since that increased gun control took effect.

Certainly the rates haven't risen because of gun control, but control certainly didn't prevent the rise. Same in California and Washington. And most other states with strict gun control.

It's not effective.

 

[Phatguysrule]

So we're arming school kids then?

I would certainly have trained and armed staff at schools. Absolutely.

That's what the rich do...

 

[Phatguysrule]

I gave you real life info about my owning a gun and being robbed with 3 guns on the street while carrying groceries home....also in my 20 years in Taiwan there were ZERO mass killings by guns and this year alone in America around 300 children have been killed by them....now what do you call that comparison? A fluke? All my life the NRA has been building a huge case to justify arming the populace with guns.....they have charts and graphs and all sorts of things you might see as truth.....my life experience and observations are my truth. I'm not selling it either nor am I overly emotional when I discuss it but yes....I'm fucking pissed about what happened yesterday and those numbers support my view on gun control. Why you would want to argue with those facts is something I won't understand no matter how much NRA propoganda you dig up

Again, I'm happy to have this conversation, but we'll need some numbers to get anywhere.

What was their percentage of gun ownership compared to mass shootings before gun control and after?

How did those numbers compare to the drop in mass shootings before and after the institution of gun control?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So no before and after numbers? How else are you supposed to make an honest comparison?

Again, I'm here and willing to have this conversation any time. Feel free to address it when it's not so emotional. I'm sure it would be a stimulating conversation. Sincerely.

If a classroom of kids being slaughtered doesn't make you emotional I'm not sure what to say. Listen to the emotional responses from people AGAINST any gun control. The hunting and killing of innocents is an emotional subject. Look at the history and pattern of this bullshit. Once the outrage and emotion dies out all discussion dies out.

You ask for proof that gun control works.

Right now, illegal aliens can not legally buy guns in this country. In these mass shootings, how many have been done by illegal aliens?

 

[illmatic99]

It's not easier to legally buy a gun and ammo than Sudafed in Oregon. It's much harder. Yet violent crime and murder have been rising ever since that increased gun control took effect.

Certainly the rates haven't risen because of gun control, but control certainly didn't prevent the rise. Same in California and Washington. And most other states with strict gun control.

It's not effective.

answer me this... why the hell does anyone need a gun?

you seem to like to stand behind these archaic reasons for why 2A was even in the constitution in the first place and then are equating that era to current era.

scared the redcoats are going to tax you again?

if you are attacked, are you actually capable of raising your gun and killing someone?

stop with the bullshit. as an immigrant to this country when i was a child, i was genuinely shocked at seeing guns and ammo sold in stores like Walmart. that shit serves no purpose and has no reasoning.

fucking gun nuts man. y'all hold onto that shit like it's the most sacred thing in the world. maybe if you and your buddies in washington showed this much conviction to something more useful, we wouldn't be reading this kinda news every week.

 

[Chris Craig]

You can defend yourself against a gun as well... Especially if you have a gun.

Not nearly as easy as defending yourself against blunt objects or knifes for that matter.

Bringing guns into schools, i.e. arming teachers is not a solution. That's the fucking problem. We are beginning to try and normalize the idea of bringing guns into places where they have no place.

 

[Chris Craig]

I gave you real life info about my owning a gun and being robbed with 3 guns on the street while carrying groceries home....also in my 20 years in Taiwan there were ZERO mass killings by guns and this year alone in America around 300 children have been killed by them....now what do you call that comparison? A fluke? All my life the NRA has been building a huge case to justify arming the populace with guns.....they have charts and graphs and all sorts of things you might see as truth.....my life experience and observations are my truth. I'm not selling it either nor am I overly emotional when I discuss it but yes....I'm fucking pissed about what happened yesterday and those numbers support my view on gun control. Why you would want to argue with those facts is something I won't understand no matter how much NRA propoganda you dig up

And they could give less a shit about rights. It's about making money. Greedy fuckers. And, they are making off the backs of of our dead children.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If a classroom of kids being slaughtered doesn't make you emotional I'm not sure what to say. Listen to the emotional responses from people AGAINST any gun control. The hunting and killing of innocents is an emotional subject. Look at the history and pattern of this bullshit. Once the outrage and emotion dies out all discussion dies out.

You ask for proof that gun control works.

Right now, illegal aliens can not legally buy guns in this country. In these mass shootings, how many have been done by illegal aliens?

I don't know the answer. How many were African American? Asian? Or women? Both can legally Purchase forearms.

The reality is that illegal aliens are among the best and brightest and motivated in our society.

People like that aren't interested in mass shootings.

 

[Chris Craig]

If a classroom of kids being slaughtered doesn't make you emotional I'm not sure what to say. Listen to the emotional responses from people AGAINST any gun control. The hunting and killing of innocents is an emotional subject. Look at the history and pattern of this bullshit. Once the outrage and emotion dies out all discussion dies out.

You ask for proof that gun control works.

Right now, illegal aliens can not legally buy guns in this country. In these mass shootings, how many have been done by illegal aliens?

ET comes in peace bro

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I don't know the answer. How many were African American? Asian? Or women? Both can legally Purchase forearms.

The reality is that illegal aliens are among the best and brightest and motivated in our society.

People like that aren't interested in mass shootings.

In Oregon, which current gun laws are you against and why?

 

[Chris Craig]

Parents need to be held responsible if their kids do this shit. Especially, if their kid gains access to their guns. If parents know they will be held responsible, they will lock that shit up tighter than Fort Knox.

 

[Phatguysrule]

answer me this... why the hell does anyone need a gun?

you seem to like to stand behind these archaic reasons for why 2A was even in the constitution in the first place and then are equating that era to current era.

scared the redcoats are going to tax you again?

if you are attacked, are you actually capable of raising your gun and killing someone?

stop with the bullshit. as an immigrant to this country when i was a child, i was genuinely shocked at seeing guns and ammo sold in stores like Walmart. that shit serves no purpose and has no reasoning.

fucking gun nuts man. y'all hold onto that shit like it's the most sacred thing in the world. maybe if you and your buddies in washington showed this much conviction to something more useful, we wouldn't be reading this kinda news every week.

I have guns for hunting, sports, and self defense.

And that's not going to change. So engaging in the rest of your questions is unproductive. Guns are here and they are going to be here.

Gun rights are expanding in far too many states to get any increases in gun control in our lifetimes. The Supreme Court is also getting ready to restrict states rights to enforce gun control.

I'm interested in actually solving the problem. Railing against guns simply can't solve the actual problems.

 

[Shaboid]

The problem is that an ar15 is just an underpowered hunting rifle. And rifles kill fewer Americans per year than blunt objects do (like clubs, hammers, etc).

This kid had a hand gun, which is far more deadly in a school shooting situation than an AR (more compact, easier to aim and maneuver indoors). And you have to be 21 to buy and carry a handgun in Texas.

The problem is that 18 school children were killed. If you think me wanting a solution to avoid that is an emotional response than we are truly at an impasse.

 

[Phatguysrule]

In Oregon, which current gun laws are you against and why?

Why does my opinion on this matter?

 

[Chris Craig]

I don't know the answer. How many were African American? Asian? Or women? Both can legally Purchase forearms.

The reality is that illegal aliens are among the best and brightest and motivated in our society.

People like that aren't interested in mass shootings.

I don't know anywhere where it is legal to purchase forearms.