Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

[Phatguysrule]

Gun people ALWAYS bring up the “knife thing”

Fucking bring it with the knives! Fucking bring ‘em! I will take my chances with a dude with a knife!

That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was, was it the knife's fault?

In both cases, if it were the tool's fault, does that mean the people are blameless?

 

[Phatguysrule]

I wonder if the gun lovers in here will ever look at these daily mass murders and for once just go…..” Yeah, maybe if there weren’t guns in the situation things might have turned out better.”

Why would we start dreaming about fairy tails? How could that possibly help anything?

 

[Phatguysrule]

View attachment 47794

"End Violence" would seem much better, IMO.

But I don't get myself wrapped up on hating inanimate objects...

 

[barfo]

Hawaii also has higher gun ownership rates than the continental US.

So, some evidence that more guns doesn't necessarily = more gun death.

That seems contradictory to @andalusian 's chart about household gun ownership. If both your and his statements are true, it must mean that gun ownership in HI is very concentrated, i.e. a few people own a lot of guns.

More guns wouldn't necessarily mean more gun deaths in that case - one person can fire only so many guns at once (I think the number is two?).

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

Gun people ALWAYS bring up the “knife thing”

Fucking bring it with the knives! Fucking bring ‘em! I will take my chances with a dude with a knife!

I've been stabbed with a knife. I'll take a knife over a bullet any day.

 

[barfo]

I've been stabbed with a knife. I'll take a knife over a bullet any day.

I'd rather be stabbed by a bullet than a knife. I don't want to be shot with either a bullet or a knife.

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was, was it the knife's fault?

In both cases, if it were the tool's fault, does that mean the people are blameless?

It was the racist asshole killers fault for sure. Also unfortunate, that those killed weren't vigilant about the possiblity of dude having weapons.

 

[Chris Craig]

I'd rather be stabbed by a bullet than a knife. I don't want to be shot with either a bullet or a knife.

barfo

An OTF knife being used is far rarer than say an AR-15 being used. But, yeah.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'd rather be stabbed by a bullet than a knife. I don't want to be shot with either a bullet or a knife.

barfo

Again that's not the discussion.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

It was the racist asshole killers fault for sure. Also unfortunate, that those killed weren't vigilant about the possiblity of dude having weapons.

It’s actually a win for gun control. He was a convicted Felon and was not allowed to have a gun. Think of the carnage if he did have a gun?

This was a bad Avenue for a gun supporter to take but of course that is never the way they look at it. Usually first thing you hear is if someone had a gun they could have stopped him.
Again a very closed sighted way to look at things.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Again that's not the discussion.

It is now.
You can’t change every discussion to what you want it to be which you happen to do all the time, and not allow the conversation to take its course for everyone else.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It was the racist asshole killers fault for sure. Also unfortunate, that those killed weren't vigilant about the possiblity of dude having weapons.

Exactly. That's why people think it's silly to blame a weapon.

 

[barfo]

An OTF knife being used is far rarer than say an AR-15 being used. But, yeah.

Huh, I'd never heard the term OTF knife before. And I own one!

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

An OTF knife being used is far rarer than say an AR-15 being used. But, yeah.

Knives are used to kill about 3 times as many people per year as all rifles combined.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

 

[Chris Craig]

Huh, I'd never heard the term OTF knife before. And I own one!

barfo

Yep, Out The Front

 

[Chris Craig]

Knives are used to kill about 3 times as many people per year as all rifles combined.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

Not in schools

 

[barfo]

Exactly. That's why people think it's silly to blame a weapon.

I don't think anyone thinks that guns make up their minds to kill a bunch of people, just like fentanyl doesn't make up it's mind to kill people, and cars, choking hazards, steep dropoffs don't, etc. etc.

But yet we do what we can to minimize the damage from other dangerous things. Even though they are just things that exist, and through no fault of their own humans misuse them.

barfo

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I don't think anyone thinks that guns make up their minds to kill a bunch of people, just like fentanyl doesn't make up it's mind to kill people, and cars, choking hazards, steep dropoffs don't, etc. etc.

But yet we do what we can to minimize the damage from other dangerous things. Even though they are just things that exist, and through no fault of their own humans misuse them.

barfo

Speed limits and seatbelts as well as drunk driving laws have helped.
Pretty sure some restrictions on guns would help as well.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It is now.
You can’t change every discussion to what you want it to be which you happen to do all the time, and not allow the conversation to take its course for everyone else.

Lol. And I can remind them that's not what was being discussed...

 

[Phatguysrule]

It’s actually a win for gun control. He was a convicted Felon and was not allowed to have a gun. Think of the carnage if he did have a gun?

This was a bad Avenue for a gun supporter to take but of course that is never the way they look at it. Usually first thing you hear is if someone had a gun they could have stopped him.
Again a very closed sighted way to look at things.

A gun would likely not have helped in that situation. A knife used properly in close quarters will beat a gun in a holster nearly every time.

Nice try though...

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't think anyone thinks that guns make up their minds to kill a bunch of people, just like fentanyl doesn't make up it's mind to kill people, and cars, choking hazards, steep dropoffs don't, etc. etc.

But yet we do what we can to minimize the damage from other dangerous things. Even though they are just things that exist, and through no fault of their own humans misuse them.

barfo

And nobody in here is suggesting we do nothing... In fact I've suggested quite a few solutions...

In fact, we've done exactly that in this country by banning the purchase of assault weapons without a special permit that basically requires you to sign all of your rights to privacy over to the ATF.

Yet here we are starting the same political attacks we've already addressed once again.

I'm game.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Speed limits and seatbelts as well as drunk driving laws have helped.
Pretty sure some restrictions on guns would help as well.

We have restrictions on guns. We've been discussing the effectiveness of those restrictions as well as other proposed restrictions.

Not sure why you're starting with this garbage again...

But again, knives are used to kill about 3 times as many people per year in this country as all rifles.

Sooo...

 

[barfo]

And nobody in here is suggesting we do nothing... In fact I've suggested quite a few solutions...

Uhm, I neither said nor implied that you suggested we do nothing. I was responding merely to your suggestion that people blame guns. People don't blame guns. People blame the inadequate restrictions on guns.

In fact, we've done exactly that in this country by banning the purchase of assault weapons without a special permit that basically requires you to sign all of your rights to privacy over to the ATF.

Yet here we are starting the same political attacks we've already addressed once again.

I'm game.

Seems like you are just looking for a fight. Shall we say cap pistols at 50 paces, Mt Tabor, dawn?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Uhm, I neither said nor implied that you suggested we do nothing. I was responding merely to your suggestion that people blame guns. People don't blame guns. People blame the inadequate restrictions on guns.



Seems like you are just looking for a fight. Shall we say cap pistols at 50 paces, Mt Tabor, dawn?

barfo

Right. The complaint has been about restricting a gun that kills far less than 1/3 as many people as knives... And dramatically less than 0.1% of all gun deaths.

So again... We've focused on the tool. The focusing on the tool seems to be misplaced at best...

Tabor it is.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

A gun would likely not have helped in that situation. A knife used properly in close quarters will beat a gun in a holster nearly every time.

Nice try though...

Ha!
You watch too many You Tube videos.
My gun beats your knife 99 out of 100 times.
Sorry.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

We have restrictions on guns. We've been discussing the effectiveness of those restrictions as well as other proposed restrictions.

Not sure why you're starting with this garbage again...

But again, knives are used to kill about 3 times as many people per year in this country as all rifles.

Sooo...

And we need more restrictions on guns.
Thanks.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Phatguysrule]

And we need more restrictions on guns.
Thanks.

Easier said than done. Luckily data shows that's probably not necessary, or as effective as other means.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ha!
You watch too many You Tube videos.
My gun beats your knife 99 out of 100 times.
Sorry.

Not in close quarters and if the person with the knife is the aggressor. As was the situation in question.

If you choose to shoot before being attacked, of course you stand a much batter chance. But then you're at much higher risk of being found guilty of murder.