Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

[barfo]

Right. The complaint has been about restricting a gun that kills far less than 1/3 as many people as knives... And dramatically less than 0.1% of all gun deaths.

So again... We've focused on the tool. The focusing on the tool seems to be misplaced at best...

Tabor it is.

The focus is on humans, and what we can do to make them safer from getting killed for no reason.
It's very difficult to harden children to gunshots. They are soft targets (and tasty too, but I digress...).
So it makes sense to focus on keeping them from getting shot.
One way (not the only way) is to reduce the number of times children and guns are in the same place.
Fewer children would be one way to achieve that. Fewer guns would be another.
There are lots of other things we could do, I agree. We should look into doing anything and everything that might help.
We won't, though.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

The focus is on humans, and what we can do to make them safer from getting killed for no reason.
It's very difficult to harden children to gunshots. They are soft targets (and tasty too, but I digress...).
So it makes sense to focus on keeping them from getting shot.
One way (not the only way) is to reduce the number of times children and guns are in the same place.
Fewer children would be one way to achieve that. Fewer guns would be another.
There are lots of other things we could do, I agree. We should look into doing anything and everything that might help.
We won't, though.

barfo

Excellent post. We likely won't.

We'll keep doing the political pissing match they want us to do because we are unwilling to look at alternatives.

Neither side has a good plan, but neither side actually cares enough to propose alternative solutions that aren't already politicized.

 

[THE HCP]

Sigh

 

[THE HCP]

Wish he had only had a knife.

 

[Shaboid]

Senators say gun deal is within reach, but without Biden’s wish list

Compromise sounds promising. Still doubtful anything gets passes, call me a pessimist.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Senators say gun deal is within reach, but without Biden’s wish list

Compromise sounds promising. Still doubtful anything gets passes, call me a pessimist.

Actually sounds like they are trying get things done that most agree on. Color me surprised.

Agreed, fingers crossed, but I have a feeling talks will fail.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

The focus is on humans, and what we can do to make them safer from getting killed for no reason.
It's very difficult to harden children to gunshots. They are soft targets (and tasty too, but I digress...).
So it makes sense to focus on keeping them from getting shot.
One way (not the only way) is to reduce the number of times children and guns are in the same place.
Fewer children would be one way to achieve that. Fewer guns would be another.
There are lots of other things we could do, I agree. We should look into doing anything and everything that might help.
We won't, though.

barfo

It's sad that a Pirate posted this and it's probably spot on.

 

[andalusian]

Hawaii also has higher gun ownership rates than the continental US.

So, some evidence that more guns doesn't necessarily = more gun death.

This is wrong given multiple source I have seen.

Hawaii has one of the lowest gun ownership in the country.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/gun-ownership.html

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-ownership-by-state

https://americangunfacts.com/gun-ownership-statistics/

If anything, Hawaii is the poster boy for harsher gun restrictions working.

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2018/07/31/hawaii-americas-lowest-rates-gun-violence/ideas/essay/

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[calvin natt]

It’s been said before and everyone has heard it already but it’s always worth saying again. If mental issues are the main concern then maybe surrounding them with 400,000,000 guns ain’t the way? Making it possible to walk in at 18 and buy one? And the types of guns we sell maybe aren’t the best for a country with so much wrong with it mentally?

 

[Haakzilla]

...more anecdotal data from a good friend on Oahu who says that over the last 2 years gun violence is on a steep rise (something like more incidents in 2yrs than the previous 20+ yrs). The culprit, mainland transplants bringing their "illegal" guns with them. FWIW

 

[Fairly-Hard]

This is wrong given multiple source I have seen.

Hawaii has one of the lowest gun ownership in the country.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/gun-ownership.html

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-ownership-by-state

https://americangunfacts.com/gun-ownership-statistics/

If anything, Hawaii is the poster boy for harsher gun restrictions working.

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2018/07/31/hawaii-americas-lowest-rates-gun-violence/ideas/essay/

He’s made multiple “Many” statements like this over and over again in this thread. Next he will change the statement and or meaning while also trying to change the subject matter. He will find a small irrelevant point and focus on that.
Muddy the Waters so to speak.

It’s why he has absolutely no credibility on this subject any longer.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

...more anecdotal data from a good friend on Oahu who says that over the last 2 years gun violence is on a steep rise (something like more incidents in 2yrs than the previous 20+ yrs). The culprit, mainland transplants bringing their "illegal" guns with them. FWIW

Houlee Boys with their guns!

 

[BigGameDamian]

Sigh
View attachment 47797

What happened to the fisticuffs? That’s the way real men do it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is wrong given multiple source I have seen.

Hawaii has one of the lowest gun ownership in the country.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/gun-ownership.html

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-ownership-by-state

https://americangunfacts.com/gun-ownership-statistics/

If anything, Hawaii is the poster boy for harsher gun restrictions working.

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2018/07/31/hawaii-americas-lowest-rates-gun-violence/ideas/essay/

According to Hawaii they have as many as 2 million guns. Only 420k or so are registered as of 2015...

A total of 420,409 firearms were registered in Hawaii from 2000 to 2014. And that’s on top of the 1 million firearms that were already in the state, according to an estimate by the Hawaii Attorney General’s office and the Honolulu Police Department in the late 1990s.

https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/04/are-there-more-guns-than-people-in-hawaii/

20 Years After Hawaii's Worst Shooting, Gun Violence Rates Lowest in Nation
Despite the restrictions, there are still plenty of guns in Hawaii. In 2018, the state Attorney General’s office estimated there were 2 million privately owned fire arms for a population of 1.4 million. But gun violence is less of a problem than in other states.

https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/g...-shooting-gun-violence-rates-lowest-in-nation

Just because Hawaiians aren't registering all of their guns from prior to the laws doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It’s been said before and everyone has heard it already but it’s always worth saying again. If mental issues are the main concern then maybe surrounding them with 400,000,000 guns ain’t the way?

Nobody is suggesting surrounding the mentally ill with guns. Any realistic way of reducing the number in the next couple decades?

Making it possible to walk in at 18 and buy one?

Who in this thread is advocating for this?

And the types of guns we sell maybe aren’t the best for a country with so much wrong with it mentally?

What features were you hoping to further restrict?

 

[barfo]

Just because Hawaiians aren't registering all of their guns from prior to the laws doesn't mean they aren't there.

So how does that compare to other states and their unregistered guns? I don't see a basis for comparison based on an estimate for just one state.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

He’s made multiple “Many” statements like this over and over again in this thread. Next he will change the statement and or meaning while also trying to change the subject matter. He will find a small irrelevant point and focus on that.
Muddy the Waters so to speak.

It’s why he has absolutely no credibility on this subject any longer.

How about you stop with the lies? Please show one claim I've made that hasn't been backed up with a source?
You're just pissed because I've proven you wrong over and over. But your repeated personal attacks aren't going to fly.

You don't like the data I've showed you, so you make personal attacks. You make false claims acting like you know about guns, only to be proven full of shit, and that pisses you off. I get it.

I've tried being polite with you, but this is getting stupid. Either back up your claims or fuck off.

 

[Phatguysrule]

So how does that compare to other states and their unregistered guns? I don't see a basis for comparison based on an estimate for just one state.

barfo

The US estimate of 400 million guns for the population of 329.5 million (1.21 guns per person) includes unregistered firearms. Hawaii estimates that they have 2 million for their population of 1.4 million (1.42 guns per person).

I didn't claim a direct comparison to another state, just the overall average for the US.

 

[barfo]

The US estimate of 400 million guns for the population of 329.5 million (1.21 guns per person) includes unregistered firearms. Hawaii estimates that they have 2 million for their population of 1.4 million (1.42 guns per person).

I didn't claim a direct comparison to another state, just the overall average for the US.

I wonder how reliable those estimates actually are. 2 million seems like an awfully round number. As does 400 million.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

I wonder how reliable those estimates actually are. 2 million seems like an awfully round number.

barfo

The earlier link listed 1.4 million, then after they added around 400k more (looked like 100k-ish per year) it was bumped to around 2 million... seemed fairly reasonable unless you are pretty certain all new guns are being registered...

None of these numbers are exact. The US may have only 350 million... or it may have 450 million. But I don't see why Hawaii's Attorney General would lie about their estimates... 400 million is a pretty darn round number as well.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

How about you stop with the lies? Please show one claim I've made that hasn't been backed up with a source?
You're just pissed because I've proven you wrong over and over. But your repeated personal attacks aren't going to fly.

You don't like the data I've showed you, so you make personal attacks. You make false claims acting like you know about guns, only to be proven full of shit, and that pisses you off. I get it.

I've tried being polite with you, but this is getting stupid. Either back up your claims or fuck off.

Uh huh Yep.

 

[barfo]

The earlier link listed 1.4 million, then after they added around 400k more (looked like 100k-ish per year) it was bumped to around 2 million... seemed fairly reasonable unless you are pretty certain all new guns are being registered...

None of these numbers are exact. The US may have only 350 million... or it may have 450 million. But I don't see why Hawaii's Attorney General would lie about their estimates... 400 million is a pretty darn round number as well.

Not thinking anyone is lying, just thinking that these are all numbers pulled out of butts.

It seems you agree that the error bars on these estimates are so large that the comparison could go either way, depending.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not thinking anyone is lying, just thinking that these are all numbers pulled out of butts.

It seems you agree that the error bars on these estimates are so large that the comparison could go either way, depending.

barfo

Yeah for sure. But I'm not sure if a percentage point or two different either way is hugely relevant with these kinds of things. None of these numbers are exact.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Uh huh Yep.

Figured. I wouldn't want to go down that road again either, if I were you.

 

[andalusian]

According to Hawaii they have as many as 2 million guns. Only 420k or so are registered as of 2015...

https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/04/are-there-more-guns-than-people-in-hawaii/


https://www.hawaiipublicradio.org/g...-shooting-gun-violence-rates-lowest-in-nation

Just because Hawaiians aren't registering all of their guns from prior to the laws doesn't mean they aren't there.

The only thing that is verifiable from this article is in the title. Don't care how many unregistered guns there are there and I am definitely not going on a limb to determine from this unfounded number that they somehow have more than the average continental US. What we do know for sure is that these additional restrictions seem to work and given that Hawaii actually has real penalties behind unregistered firearms - even if they exist but people do not want to use them mostly because of the penalties, it just another point in favor of increased restrictions and proper penalties.

Once we start putting "estimated" numbers without reference, we might as well resort to the following:

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

How is an AR more deadly in a close situation? The first thing I'd want is a hand gun. Far easier to pack, less obvious that you have it, easier to aim quickly... Definitely would prefer a hand gun in a building.

If I'm trying to kill at distance I'd go for the AR. But that wasn't the situation.

What makes you think an AR is be more deadly in a baracaded situation?

Hello,
I am not sure, But I would counter this with, why does not the military just go with hand guns when in urban combat?
I am pretty sure most any infantry unit would choose the AR over any hand gun almost every time, so I'm not sure of that opinion being the most accurate.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

What happened to the fisticuffs? That’s the way real men do it.

Humans have gone soft.

Edit: Americans have gone soft.