Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (7 Viewers)

[Phatguysrule]

You can’t be serious

Incredibly serious.

 

[jonnyboy]

Merely your opinions

Yes, the things I write here are my opinions. Hot take.

But, yes this is one line of defense and an important one.

There are avenues to fixing the problem and I have discussed many of them. This is one of them.

Well you can continue to discuss your avenues and bright ideas until you’re blue in the face, it won’t save a single life as long as the only person in the school with a gun is the fucking mass shooter. I guess kids can just continue to be sitting ducks while you scream “guns are bad!”

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I've lived a couple decades in a country where you can't have a gun and the rest of my life here where you can.....one country has zero mass killings by a single person and the other has many mass shooting

Except China keeps threatening to invade Taiwan. People might want some guns if that happens.

 

[HailBlazers]

Guess it depends on if you want to live in a Communist county

 

[Phatguysrule]

Has your gun ever saved a life? First of all....it's not a partisan issue in America...all kinds of people like guns here so that boat doesn't fly with me but sure...more rural people with guns are probably in red states and more urban people with guns are in blue states....that's not the issue....look at gun control globally and see places where you can't buy a gun for protection but in England you can buy a sporting rifle that is manually chambered and for hunting purposes...this is what we should do in my view...allow manually chambered sporting guns for rural farm and ranch use but eliminate weapons for urban use across the board. I'm not a democrat or republican so that's zero influence on my view of guns in the hands of a population of road rage drivers and angry divided people over what side you cook your eggs on. Guns need to be banned from public gathering places period....no school needs armed guards....they need gun control...just like airports use....enter the grounds you get checked out first. You'll keep your own guns though...that I promise...it's way too popular here to ever change...doesn't mean I think it's right though because I believe strongly that humanity is better served without guns as a symbol of security.

Nearly all mass shootings happen in places where guns are banned.

The rules you're talking about will just mean that the bad guys have all of the guns... And it will create a LOT more bad guys who make a living in that black market.

 

[Chris Craig]

Yes, the things I write here are my opinions. Hot take.

Well you can continue to discuss your avenues and bright ideas until you’re blue in the face, it won’t save a single life as long as the only person in the school with a gun is the fucking mass shooter. I guess kids can just continue to be sitting ducks while you scream “guns are bad!”

Sure thing

They would if they were used.

Guns in the hands of kids are bad.

You want to advocate putting guns in kids hands fine

 

[Orion Bailey]

Gun control can work. It might take 100 years, but it could work. Gradually reduce the number of guns in circulation, make them more expensive and harder to obtain, increase penalties for misuse. It could potentially be done.

You are right that those other things you mentioned would be very good to do. But they are all approximately the same level of impossible as gun control, i.e. they might be fixed sometime after we are all dead, if the country survives that long.

But there's no reason we shouldn't take tiny, tentative baby steps toward addressing all the issues in the meantime.

barfo

How do you propose the elimination? Start with a voluntary handover of legally owned guns?
Make owning guns illegal?

what baby steps should be initiated?

There is no scenario I view where a criminal is going to handover their gun before a law abiding citizen. Without a detailed and defined plan, i see baby steps as leaving only criminals with guns on the street.
I dont think most people would like that.

 

[Orion Bailey]

They also like the idea of not getting shot.

barfo

may i ask, what do you think worries parents and citizens more? Getting shot in a public place where guns are banned? Or how they will pay for their children's education, retirement, etc?

 

[Orion Bailey]

You can’t be serious

incredible counter argument!

 

[Phatguysrule]

That's not true....the police have guns in Taiwan and England....they just don't let citizens carry handguns around the public......black market crime isn't gun control and you're projecting a scenario which doesn't exist in Taiwan at all.....They have criminals and cops too.....so does England and Switzerland, etc.....what you're talking about is having some sort of private citizen militia protecting the peace...sorry dude...it never works out like that and as I've said....guns are causing more deaths than they're saving in the private sector of society. You can feel good though because you have your guns. I own two hunting rifles and grew up with guns....we didn't take them to town or school though..that was not acceptable when I grew up...now you want armed teachers? We disagree across the board on this topic. If you get robbed they'll take your guns before they take your computer....more people kill themselves with guns than save lives with the damned things...they are not badges of honor.

No, I'm talking about me having a gun to protect myself and my family.

None of those places have ever had 400 million guns or a culture tied to guns.

We can't round up enough, and even if we tried the black market for guns would explode. Every 3D printer would be worth 10x as much. Every neighborhood would have somebody making guns for the insane profits.

And remember this, it's far easier to make a fully automatic than a semiautomatic.

 

[calvin natt]

incredible counter argument!

It was a statement not an argument. Please ignore

 

[calvin natt]

Students have taken guns to school for hundreds of years. Most recently they have been left in their pickup so they could go hunting after school... It pretty much always turns out just fine.

Kids don't just see a guns then turn into blood thirsty killers...

I feel like this is bizarroland. If students can carry guns to school, for every “save the day hero” who thwarts a shooting there will be ten who get the thumbs up from pops to take one to school and end up Kyle Rittenhousing the cafeteria.

 

[barfo]

How do you propose the elimination? Start with a voluntary handover of legally owned guns?
Make owning guns illegal?

Ok, if I were king: I would buy and shut down the gun manufacturers and gun stores, and ban the import of all firearms. I would would not confiscate any citizen-owned guns, but I would buy any and all guns offered for sale. I'm not expecting to be king, though.

what baby steps should be initiated?

Things like universal background checks, databases shared across the country, cooling off periods, and removal of the liability protection for manufacturers.

There is no scenario I view where a criminal is going to handover their gun before a law abiding citizen. Without a detailed and defined plan, i see baby steps as leaving only criminals with guns on the street.
I dont think most people would like that.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by baby steps.

barfo

 

[barfo]

may i ask, what do you think worries parents and citizens more? Getting shot in a public place where guns are banned? Or how they will pay for their children's education, retirement, etc?

Do you think parents should worry about only one thing? Or how many? Let's make a list.

barfo

 

[barfo]

We can't round up enough, and even if we tried the black market for guns would explode. Every 3D printer would be worth 10x as much. Every neighborhood would have somebody making guns for the insane profits.

I don't think everyone is quite as thirsty for guns as you make out. It is possible to live a happy and productive life without a gun.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't think everyone is quite as thirsty for guns as you make out. It is possible to live a happy and productive life without a gun.

barfo

It doesn't have to be everyone... It's literally tens of millions of people...

 

[barfo]

It doesn't have to be everyone... It's literally tens of millions of people...

I don't think tens of millions of people will choose to be felons in order to possess a gun (supposing a scenario where that was the choice).
Some will, sure...

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't think tens of millions of people will choose to be felons in order to possess a gun (supposing a scenario where that was the choice).
Some will, sure...

barfo

I think you're drastically underestimating how many people support the 2nd ammendment and would be willing to die to keep their guns.

A felony is nothing to these people. Almost certainly tens of millions.

 

[calvin natt]

I think you're drastically underestimating how many people support the 2nd ammendment and would be willing to die to keep their guns.

A felony is nothing to these people. Almost certainly tens of millions.

Which is all you need to know about these people

 

[Phatguysrule]

Which is all you need to know about these people

I guess so. But that isn't relevant to the conversation...

 

[barfo]

I think you're drastically underestimating how many people support the 2nd ammendment and would be willing to die to keep their guns.

Well, if they are gonna die, then fine, we can bury their guns with them.

You can't say I'm not willing to compromise!

A felony is nothing to these people. Almost certainly tens of millions.

Yeah, I don't think most people with lives and jobs and kids and shit are really going to do the "I'll die and/or go to jail for my guns" thing.

My opinion of my fellow Americans is going down daily, but I still think most people can make better decisions than that.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Well, if they are gonna die, then fine, we can bury their guns with them.

You can't say I'm not willing to compromise!



Yeah, I don't think most people with lives and jobs and kids and shit are really going to do the "I'll die and/or go to jail for my guns" thing.

My opinion of my fellow Americans is going down daily, but I still think most people can make better decisions than that.

barfo

I didn't say most people. 10% of people in this country is 35 million.

That's a hell of a lot of people.

 

[barfo]

I didn't say most people. 10% of people in this country is 35 million.

That's a hell of a lot of people.

That is a lot, but why 10%? Especially since some of those would be infants?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

That is a lot, but why 10%? Especially since some of those would be infants?

barfo

Just a number I tossed out as an example. 5% is a lot as well.

*Edit*
5% would be over 8x our current prison population....

 

[Lanny]

Guess it depends on if you want to live in a Communist county

No, it depends on whether you want to live.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Do you think parents should worry about only one thing? Or how many? Let's make a list.

barfo

where did i say only one thing? I asked which you think they care MORE about.

Are you able to answer the question?

Yeah. Make a list. Prioritize it like most everyone does with their wants in their life.
So i ask again, which do you think they worry about More?

 

[barfo]

where did i say only one thing? I asked which you think they care MORE about.

Are you able to answer the question?

Yeah. Make a list. Prioritize it like most everyone does with their wants in their life.
So i ask again, which do you think they worry about More?

Sure, they worry more about whatever it was that you mentioned. Happy now?

But so what? I didn't claim getting shot was the single biggest worry, so I'm not sure what your point is.

barfo

 

[Orion Bailey]

Sure, they worry more about whatever it was that you mentioned. Happy now?

But so what? I didn't claim getting shot was the single biggest worry, so I'm not sure what your point is.

barfo

Geez….. point is prioritizing worries and what efforts can make the biggest change.

Have you been reading the thread???

The point has been made that the amount of effort to try to control guns could be better exerted on other topics that would have a far bigger positive impact on american lives.

you said people wont have to worry about getting shot.
Im saying people don't worry about that near as much as your statement implied.
Its a nonfactor in the average persons daily stress.

 

[tlongII]

Geez….. point is prioritizing worries and what efforts can make the biggest change.

Have you been reading the thread???

The point has been made that the amount of effort to try to control guns could be better exerted on other topics that would have a far bigger positive impact on american lives.

you said people wont have to worry about getting shot.
Im saying people don't worry about that near as much as your statement implied.
Its a nonfactor in the average persons daily stress.

Except if you’re downtown.

 

[Phatguysrule]

According to the CDC, about 14,500 Americans were murdered with guns in 2017. More than half were young black men killed in metro areas, which has been the pattern for at least the last five years.

It's almost like most of the problem with gun crime is that we have populations of desperate people in our inner cities...

But I guess arguing with Republicans is more important than actually solving problems.

Wonder why people say both sides are the same?