Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (2 Viewers)

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Hoopguru said:
My 14 year old grandson is taking hunter safety which I did when I was 12. It is a good program.
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As did I. Great program.
I'd love to see a free federal gun safety course which gives a $200 refundable tax credit upon completion with a high enough score.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
You ever been to Alabama? This is the state that brought you Mo Brooks and Tommy Tuberville. And that’s just the last decade…….
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Point taken. Felons, violent offenders, and the mentally ill are going to be able to get their hands on guns. Hell it's basically a gun handout. Not a good recipe.
 
Chris Craig said:
Point taken. Felons, violent offenders, and the mentally ill are going to be able to get their hands on guns. Hell it's basically a gun handout. Not a good recipe.
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Simple solution would be to make a federal law to mark the ID of every one of those people with a firearms restriction and make it a felony to assist those people in gaining access to a firearm.

There would be very little republican resistance and it would be every bit as effective as universal background checks.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Simple solution would be to make a federal law to mark the ID of every one of those people with a firearms restriction and make it a felony to assist those people in gaining access to a firearm.

There would be very little republican resistance and it would be every bit as effective as universal background checks.
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There were be a ton of opposition to that, IMO.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Email a few democrat and republican senators' offices and ask them to propose something like that.
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I read an article about it a few years ago. It was on a local news website... WW, Oregonlive, or maybe tribune.

Not finding it quickly, but basically Democrats don't want it. An Oregon Republican house member suggested it as compromise at one point and the Democrats didn't give her the time of day. Wouldn't even consider it.

It seems Dems want a database of all gun owners, or don't actually care about making progress on this issue. Maybe both.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Email a few democrat and republican senators' offices and ask them to propose something like that.
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I have no question that some Republicans would support it if Democrats offered national reciprocity for a state level concealed carry permit (or maybe a federal concealed carry license).
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I read an article about it a few years ago. It was on a local news website... WW, Oregonlive, or maybe tribune.

Not finding it quickly, but basically Democrats don't want it. An Oregon Republican house member suggested it as compromise at one point and the Democrats didn't give her the time of day. Wouldn't even consider it.

It seems Dems want a database of all gun owners, or don't actually care about making progress on this issue. Maybe both.
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What’s so horrible about a database of all gun owners?
 
calvin natt said:
What’s so horrible about a database of all gun owners?
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The fear is that it makes it easy for a corrupt government to round up or target all guns/gun owners.

That's one reason we have such a fractured background check system. They aren't allowed to create a central database of who owns what gun. When a gun is searched for they have to go back to where it was purchased and hope they have kept the records.

They aren't allowed to use computers or enter them digitally so the records are in literal file cabinets.

A national database of restricted individuals would be infinitely more helpful than any background check system we'll ever be allowed to use. Especially with the current Supreme Court.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The fear is that it makes it easy for a corrupt government to round up or target all guns/gun owners.

That's one reason we have such a fractured background check system. They aren't allowed to create a central database of who owns what gun. When a gun is searched for they have to go back to where it was purchased and hope they have kept the records.

They aren't allowed to use computers or enter them digitally so the records are in literal file cabinets.

A national database of restricted individuals would be infinitely more helpful than any background check system we'll ever be allowed to use. Especially with the current Supreme Court.
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Well if the govt targets all the gun owners they’ll just protect themselves with their guns and it’s all good
 
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calvin natt said:
Well if the govt targets all the gun owners they’ll just protect themselves with their guns and it’s all good
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Yeah, this seems like a fantastic scenario for all involved.

I'm sure you'd think it's real clever if your neighbor and the police got into a gunfight at 2am and your house were turned into swiss cheese...

I would personally prefer to avoid these scenarios, but to each their own...
 
calvin natt said:
What’s so horrible about a database of all gun owners?
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Why were they looking for a list of members? Perhaps looking for a "registry" of armed citizens?

That's why gun owners have a problem with a database of gun owners.
 
calvin natt said:
What’s so horrible about a database of all gun owners?
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Why were they looking for a list of members? Perhaps looking for a "registry" of armed citizens?

An example why gun owners have a problem with a database of gun owners.
 
Phatguysrule said:


Why were they looking for a list of members? Perhaps looking for a "registry" of armed citizens?

An example why gun owners have a problem with a database of gun owners.
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The problem with this is comparing Russia and the US. Are people concerned that the Democrats are going to hunt down (pun intended) gun owners like a bunch of Russians? Trumpers are the ones who idolize Putin and guns. It’s all backwards. The people who would be insane enough to go find people and take guns away…are the ones who have the guns.
 
calvin natt said:
The problem with this is comparing Russia and the US. Are people concerned that the Democrats are going to hunt down (pun intended) gun owners like a bunch of Russians? Trumpers are the ones who idolize Putin and guns. It’s all backwards. The people who would be insane enough to go find people and take guns away…are the ones who have the guns.
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It's not about Democrats and Republicans. At least, not historically. It's about if things go bad, having less leverage or fewer obstacles between armed and disarmed.

For example, Trump instituted more gun control than Obama did. I was far more worried about Trump than I ever was about Obama. Right now, Republicans scare me far more. Shit, some were/are openly calling for civil war...

There are a LOT of liberals and progressives who own firearms. They just don't feel the need to advertise it or engage in the toxic "in your face" gun culture. For them it's a responsibility.

Imagine 2 terms of Trump followed by 2 terms of Trump Jr or Tucker Carlson... It's terrifying to me, considering how far we fell after just a couple years of Trump.

Hell, he had feds kidnapping and terrorizing people in downtown Portland.

Imagine police refusing to do their job and Trump has no choice but to hire mercenaries... Hell he did exactly that to hunt down and kill Michael Reinoehl.

We were very close to slipping down a road to a terrifying reality under Trump... A road in which an armed population might be the only thing to make a mad authoritarian think twice.

A road in which civilians can put up enough of a defense or front to make police and military question the logic of what they are being ordered to do. And maybe contemplate switching sides...

I can see Trump giving those orders under the correct circumstances. I could see Trump comparing a database of gun owners with a database of voters and rounding up firearms first.

But I think it's far less likely those orders ever come with an armed population that doesn't have a face. It's just 100 million people who have the power to kill anybody Trump could send after them. The largest armed force on the planet by far.

And a corrupt leader can't target them. In order to use the awesome strength of the military they would have to target their own supporters as well.

It's terrifying to think about, but an armed population is a very strong disincentive. One that had Trump literally hiding in the white house in an underground bunker during protests. He wasn't hiding from Republicans.

How many times do you think Putin has hid from the Russians in underground bunkers?
 
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It seems a bit tin-foily to me. When it comes to left and right and guns, while both sides might have guns, it’s clearrlllllly more right than left. If you walked into an NRA convention and took a poll, it would be fairly obvious. 77% are Republicans. So if defending themselves against a non-Republican govt is a concern of theirs they need to chill out. Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg aren’t coming for their guns. As for Dems defending themselves, I would hope they aren’t delusional enough to think they have a chance in hell of fending off a bunch of gun enthusiasts and the federal govt. I just don’t see any situation where any of this is realistic or feasible.
 
calvin natt said:
It seems a bit tin-foily to me. When it comes to left and right and guns, while both sides might have guns, it’s clearrlllllly more right than left. If you walked into an NRA convention and took a poll, it would be fairly obvious. 77% are Republicans. So if defending themselves against a non-Republican govt is a concern of theirs they need to chill out. Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg aren’t coming for their guns. As for Dems defending themselves, I would hope they aren’t delusional enough to think they have a chance in hell of fending off a bunch of gun enthusiasts and the federal govt. I just don’t see any situation where any of this is realistic or feasible.
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Most liberal gun owners are embarrassed by the modern NRA. They used to be about education and safety. But yes, for sure, more on the right have guns. But millions on the left do as well.

It doesn't matter if democrats would stand a chance against Republicans and the government. The fact that we are armed makes the odds of testing that close to zero.

We don't have anywhere close to enough soldiers. And never could.
 
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calvin natt said:
What’s so horrible about a database of all gun owners?
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Think about that? It’s pretty much already happening. You have to pass a background check to buy most guns.
There are a bunch of non registered guns though and they also sell some at gun shows without checking.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
A licensed gun dealer has to do a background check before selling a gun at a gun show but many states still allow private parties to sell guns at gun shows without a background check.
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33 states have no background check required at gunshows.

But maybe if we work real hard and spend a lot of political capital we can get 10 of those changed in the next 20 years.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Debatable... But it's the least of our problems.
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No, it's going to worsen an already bad problem. Scores of people getting guns with no background checks.
 
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