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Phatguysrule said:
Then somebody can challenge those restrictions and risk the Supreme Court ruling on favor of children and dangerous people having the right to bare arms as well.

That's not my thing.
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Maybe we should.

Make it so fucking ridiculous that we'll have to pass a new amendment.
 
Phatguysrule said:
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Keep and bear is not the same as make your own. Bear means to carry. There is no definition of keep or bear that means to manufacture.
 
Phatguysrule said:
How could you prove they made it? There would be no markings. And they can't restrict your right to manufacture your own, as that would be violating the 2nd ammendment.

People think this stuff is so easy, but it's just not. It is incredibly hard to do any kind of effective gun control without violating the 2nd ammendment, or looking like you intend to do so.

And that isn't going to change without a constitutional convention and a 2/3 vote. And nobody wants a constitutional convention because then everything in the constitution can be changed... It's too risky.
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Do you realize what a constitutional amendment stands for? We have 33 of them in the constitution. Who says "nobody" wants to amend the constitution ....? Gun owners? Nothing is riskier to society than 400 million weapons and mountain of ammunition being stockpiled by anyone who wishes to hoard them.
 
Phatguysrule said:
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Not a 2nd amendment expert by any means, but where does it state keep and bear any arms you want? They could outlaw all guns but 9mm. You still have the right to keep and bear arms. In my opinion a lot of the people who are so concerned with their 2nd amendment rights seem to think it says to Keep and Bear any arms and style of arms I want. Just because say the Government made the AR platform illegal, it in no ways prohibits anyone one from the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
That's a good one, but I'm not sure if a difference of 120 deaths per year is going to be compelling enough to convince enough people to reinstate an assault weapons ban or magazine capacity limit.

In fact, I'm pretty sure it won't be... Particularly when the states with the most mass shootings (California and Illinois) already have those laws...
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2021 there were 636 deaths from mass shootings....409 without suspects apprehended. You can buy a gun in Texas and drive to California and shoot people....where it happens has little to do with state laws because....people can drive from state to state without issue. Without the laws they have....more may have occured. The escalation in violent shootings has gone way up since people were locked down in the bubble as well plus 48 million people lost jobs and over a million lost family members from the pandemic....stress has been an issue for people who aren't stable enough to endure it. Regular people who aren't clinically diagnosed with mental illnesses are just as capable of flipping out under duress as anyone else. It's a complex society.
 
twobullz said:
Not a 2nd amendment expert by any means, but where does it state keep and bear any arms you want? They could outlaw all guns by 9mm. You still have the right to keep and bear arms. In my opinion a lot of the people who are so concerned with their 2nd amendment rights seem to think it says to Keep and Bear any arms and style of arms I want. Just because say the Government made the AR platform illegal, it in no ways prohibits anyone one from the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
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I don't know for sure, however, prohibiting all but a single type would certainly seem to be infringing on the rights of people.

As I understand the 2nd amendment, it was intended to make the population capable of being the most functional ("regulated") infantry ("militia") possible. So the idea would be to protect the rights of the people to own and practice with weapons equivalent to those a standard infantry soldier.

So knives, handguns, and rifles, of similar capability. Explosives, tanks, and nuclear subs would require additional training of the standard infantry soldier, and so the rights to own and operate those would not be covered by the 2nd amendment.

That makes the most sense to me.
 
riverman said:
2021 there were 636 deaths from mass shootings....409 without suspects apprehended. You can buy a gun in Texas and drive to California and shoot people....where it happens has little to do with state laws because....people can drive from state to state without issue. Without the laws they have....more may have occured. The escalation in violent shootings has gone way up since people were locked down in the bubble as well plus 48 million people lost jobs and over a million lost family members from the pandemic....stress has been an issue for people who aren't stable enough to endure it. Regular people who aren't clinically diagnosed with mental illnesses are just as capable of flipping out under duress as anyone else. It's a complex society.
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I agree, and I'm sure your numbers are accurate.

However, I don't agree with or support removing the rights of all people because they might someday commit a crime. I think in specific circumstances I can support red flag laws, if a persons closest relations or medical professionals deem it necessary. But aside from that I don't believe in restricting rights until somebody has actually committed a crime.

The way to mitigate those problems are focusing on universal healthcare (included health), improving our education system and making it universal through college, and improving our social safety net. And probably trying to get a handle on internet propaganda.
 
Chris Craig said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ats-bipartisan-effort-gun-violence/index.html


Looks like Mitch "Turtle" McConnell has asked Texas Senator John Cornyn to work with Democrats on a bipartisan solution to gun violence. Let's hope it amounts to something.
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This will be interesting... the only option for an open carry state to prevent these would be universal healthcare and vastly improved education system... and likely a generous safety net...

Maybe Texas can come up with something else...
 
We do and will continue to make guns that are better and easier killing devices. So we can never outlaw them because people have a right to the latest and best ways to kill people?
 
riverman said:
Do you realize what a constitutional amendment stands for? We have 33 of them in the constitution. Who says "nobody" wants to amend the constitution ....? Gun owners? Nothing is riskier to society than 400 million weapons and mountain of ammunition being stockpiled by anyone who wishes to hoard them.
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I do. We'll see how eager everybody is to get that done.
 
calvin natt said:
The majority of Americans want some type of gun reform
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Right, but we will not be able to get gun reform that prevents these kinds of things. If there are 400 million guns, many of which are unregistered, you can't prevent these heinous acts by controlling some of the guns.

So if that's how we intend to prevent these situations we're going to be incredibly disappointed. I am not interested in these half measures which will be "statistically insignificant", and would rather not waste the political capital on it. Doing so will cost us far more lives than if we focused on empowering the population and preventing the rich from robbing us blind.

It would be a distraction. A very emotional and expensive distraction.
 
Guns have become the leading cause of death for American kids


wNqCThM.jpg


Firearms were the leading cause of death for kids one and older for the first time in 2020, the most recent year for which CDC data is available.

Why it matters: The firearm death rate among children is steadily rising, as more kids are involved in gun-related homicides like Tuesday's mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas,as well as suicides and accidents.

By the numbers: Nearly two-thirds of the 4,368 U.S. children up to age 19 who were killed by guns in 2020 were homicide victims, per the CDC. Motor vehicle crashes, formerly the leading cause of death for kids one and older, killed nearly 4,000 children.

  • Another 30% of firearm-related child fatalities were suicides, 3% were accidental and 2% were of undetermined intent.
  • Male youths were significantly more likely to be killed by guns, while vehicle crashes claimed more females.
  • There were also stark racial disparities. The firearm death rate for Black children was more than four times that of white children, and white children were still more likely to be killed by motor vehicles than guns.
  • D.C. had the highest firearm death rate, followed by Louisiana, Alaska and Mississippi.
6VB8fFF.jpg

Of note: Among children younger than 1, congenital anomalies — or birth defects — were the leading cause of death in 2020, resulting in 4,043 fatalities, per the CDC.

What they're saying: "As the progress made in reducing deaths from motor vehicle crashes shows, we don’t have to accept the high rate of firearm-related deaths among U.S. children and adolescents," researchers recently wrote in a New England Journal of Medicine article that highlighted the trend.

  • The study noted that while the National Highway Safety Administration could take the lead addressing road-traffic fatalities, firearms are one of the few products whose safety isn't regulated by a designated federal agency.
  • It has taken 20 years to build a database of firearm-related deaths that includes data from all 50 states, the researchers wrote.
The bottom line: School shootings have become tragically common in the U.S., but constitute only a small fraction of gun deaths among children.

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/26/gun-deaths-children-america
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Guns have become the leading cause of death for American kids


wNqCThM.jpg


Firearms were the leading cause of death for kids one and older for the first time in 2020, the most recent year for which CDC data is available.

Why it matters: The firearm death rate among children is steadily rising, as more kids are involved in gun-related homicides like Tuesday's mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas,as well as suicides and accidents.

By the numbers: Nearly two-thirds of the 4,368 U.S. children up to age 19 who were killed by guns in 2020 were homicide victims, per the CDC. Motor vehicle crashes, formerly the leading cause of death for kids one and older, killed nearly 4,000 children.

  • Another 30% of firearm-related child fatalities were suicides, 3% were accidental and 2% were of undetermined intent.
  • Male youths were significantly more likely to be killed by guns, while vehicle crashes claimed more females.
  • There were also stark racial disparities. The firearm death rate for Black children was more than four times that of white children, and white children were still more likely to be killed by motor vehicles than guns.
  • D.C. had the highest firearm death rate, followed by Louisiana, Alaska and Mississippi.
6VB8fFF.jpg

Of note: Among children younger than 1, congenital anomalies — or birth defects — were the leading cause of death in 2020, resulting in 4,043 fatalities, per the CDC.

What they're saying: "As the progress made in reducing deaths from motor vehicle crashes shows, we don’t have to accept the high rate of firearm-related deaths among U.S. children and adolescents," researchers recently wrote in a New England Journal of Medicine article that highlighted the trend.

  • The study noted that while the National Highway Safety Administration could take the lead addressing road-traffic fatalities, firearms are one of the few products whose safety isn't regulated by a designated federal agency.
  • It has taken 20 years to build a database of firearm-related deaths that includes data from all 50 states, the researchers wrote.
The bottom line: School shootings have become tragically common in the U.S., but constitute only a small fraction of gun deaths among children.

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/26/gun-deaths-children-america
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Yep, and that will get worse as crime gets worse. And crime will get worse as the Gini Coefficient gets worse... Most of those deaths are gang related, with black market firearms.
 
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