Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (2 Viewers)

[MARIS61]

Published May 28, 2022 12:37pm EDT
West Virginia woman with pistol shoots, kills man firing at graduation party: 'Saved several lives'

Charleston police said no partygoers were hurt in the incident

By Julia Musto | Fox News

A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man Wednesday night who had begun firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of dozens.

Charleston Police identified the man as 37-year-old Dennis Butler.

The people were attending a birthday and graduation party outside a Renaissance Circle apartment complex.

Butler had been at the apartment complex earlier in the evening in a vehicle and was warned to slow down because children were playing, according to authorities.

He left but later returned and parked in front of the complex before shooting.

The woman was attending the West Virginia party. She drew a pistol and fired on Butler.

No one attending the party was injured.

The woman then waited for police to arrive, and she and several witnesses have cooperated with the investigation.

"Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night," Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told news outlets Thursday.

Hazelett said no charges would be filed against the woman.

In an interview with MetroNews' "Talkline" Thursday, Police Chief Tyke Hunt said Butler was a convicted felon who had "been to prison a few times."

Hunt said Butler illegally possessed the gun he fired, adding the matter was still under investigation.

WSAZ said the Kanawha County Prosecutor’s Office is investigating.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Period
Point
Blank
Mic
Drop

Yeah, when you join the military you no longer have the same rights as other Americans...

You agree to that when you sign up.

I am all for educating civilians and offering training. And even paying civilians to go. I think that's a great idea.

We've covered what "well regulated" means in the constitution (with links to expert analysis) and why the Supreme Court has upheld it. It means capable, well functioning. Because that was the intention at the time of signing.

This guy should probably do some research on the constitution before he starts trying to educate people on it.

 

[calvin natt]

Yeah, when you join the military you no longer have the same rights as other Americans...

You agree to that when you sign up.

I am all for educating civilians and offering training. And even paying civilians to go. I think that's a great idea.

Feels like the point went over your head and you’re too smart for that.

 

[Shaboid]

Tried to take a couple days off from this thread for my mental health, and I'm not sure if it worked. Especially since I just got totally caught up. On my lunch on Friday, I was minding my own business in my car eating my burrito and some drugged out psycho stared me down for a full 45 seconds and then made the 'fingers across his throat sign'. WHY? Couldn't tell you. That fucked me up a bit, but I got the hell outta there and made the proper report, not that anything is going to happen.

All that to say, he could probably buy nearly any type of firearm and follow through on whatever thoughts he was having. That scares the shit outta me and nobody should have to have that unneeded thought, especially a child. Something needs to change.

Yea, mental health is struggling lately. Thank god I at least have semi-decent health coverage to take care of myself, but a lot of this country doesn't.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Feels like the point went over your head and you’re too smart for that.

No I got his point. But I don't agree with restricting the rights of American citizens as though they are military drones.

While that's easy for the government in an autocracy like the military, it's not how democracy should work.

 

[MARIS61]

Border patrol agents who went in and took out the Uvalde shooter defied local police chief who told them to keep waiting outside the classroom

Doc Holliday
May 28th, 2022 11:47 am
This horrific story keeps getting more and more tragic and baffling.

NBC is now reporting that the dozens of local police and federal agents on the scene of the shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, TX were under orders from the chief not to enter the classroom — for over an hour — even though the shooter was still active and shooting kids inside. Somehow these orders were obeyed by dozens of armed officers on the scene.

Border patrol agents in tactical gear arrived at the scene and initially fell in line. But after a half hour of sporadic shooting and God only knows how many more kids dying from shots and lack of medical attention, the federal officers decided to disobey and storm the classroom, where they took fire and killed the shooter. From NBC:

Feds entered school to kill gunman after local cops asked them to wait
Two senior federal law enforcement officials said the federal agents decided after about 30 minutes not to wait any longer and entered the school to find gunman Salvador Ramos.
WWW.NBCNEWS.COM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...police-initiall-rcna30941?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Federal agents who went to Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday to confront a gunman who killed 19 children were told by local police to wait and not enter the school — and then decided after about half an hour to ignore that initial guidance and find the shooter, say two senior federal law enforcement officials.

According to the officials, agents from BORTAC, the Customs and Border Protection tactical unit, and ICE's Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) arrived on the scene between noon and 12:15 p.m. on Tuesday. Local law enforcement asked them to wait, and then instructed HSI agents to help pull children out of the windows.

The BORTAC team, armed with tactical gear, at first did not move toward the gunman. After approximately 30 minutes passed, however, the federal agents opted of their own volition to lead the "stack" of officers inside the school and take down the shooter.

Steven McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said Friday that Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, had stopped at least 19 officers from breaking into the school as the gunman opened fire for at least an hour.

This is absolutely maddening.

So if the details don't change AGAIN, here is the new timeline, as compiled by NBC and the Wall Street Journal:

• 11:28 a.m.: The shooter crashed his grandmother's truck into a ditch next to Robb Elementary School. He had just shot her in the face at her house. He exits the vehicle and begins firing at people at a funeral home across the street.
• 11:30 a.m.: A 911 call was placed by someone reporting the shots. The shooter then climbed a chain-link fence onto school grounds and began firing outside the school.
• Either 11:33 (NBC) or 11:40 (WSJ): The shooter entered the school unimpeded via a back door that was propped open and began shooting in classrooms 111 and 112, which were connected.
• Just 2 minutes after the shooter entered the school: At least three police officers entered the same door the gunman did.
• Just 10 minutes after the shooter entered the school: As many as 19 officers had arrived and were in the hallway outside the active shooting scene.
• Between noon and 12:15 p.m.: Federal border patrol agents, armed with tactical gear, arrived on scene. They are told by the local police chief not to enter the classroom. They obey for approximately half an hour.
• Either 12:40 p.m. (WSJ) or 12:50 p.m. (NBC): The border patrol agents defy orders from the local police chief and stormed the classroom after, confusingly, having to find a staff member with a key to the door. They exchanged fire with the gunman and killed him.

You are not reading that timeline incorrectly.

Numerous police were at the scene, within feet of the shooter, just 2 minutes after he entered the school and began firing. Dozens of police were at the scene just 8 minutes later. About 20 minutes after that, federal agents armed with tactical gear were on the scene. And it wasn't until another half hour later that they entered the classroom to engage the shooter.
Not one armed officer entered the classroom where little kids were being massacred until over an hour after they began arriving at the scene.
The gunman fired over 100 shots and murdered 19 little kids and 2 teachers.

None of this makes any sense and we need answers.

 

[calvin natt]

No I got his point. But I don't agree with restricting the rights of American citizens as though they are military drones.

While that's easy for the government in an autocracy like the military, it's not how democracy should work.

Hm. Funny but I don’t feel like we should shoot at kids like they are military drones

 

[MARIS61]

This federal agent grabbed his barber's shotgun when his wife texted "help" from the Uvalde school, then got his lady, their daughter, and dozens of students to safety
Facebook / Jacob Albarado

Jesse James
May 27th, 2022 11:35 am
When your wife texts "help," it activate's something in a man's brain that nothing can stop.

You dudes know what I'm talking about. If your wife and kids are in danger, you will stop that danger. Period.

Case in point: This federal agent who literally jumped out of his barber's chair and stormed the school to save his wife and daughter.

Heroic officer rushed into Uvalde school with barber’s shotgun to save daughter, wife
“There’s an active shooter,” she wrote. “Help,” she sent before sending a chilling: “I love you.”
NYPOST.COM

https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/cbp-o...school-with-barbers-shotgun-to-save-daughter/

Jacob Albarado had just sat down for a haircut when he received the horrifying message from his wife, Trisha, a fourth-grade teacher at the Uvalde, Texas, elementary school, he told the New York Times.

"There's an active shooter," she wrote. "Help," she sent before sending a chilling: "I love you."

He immediately leaped out of his seat, grabbed the barber's shotgun and sped off toward the school.

THAT IS HOW YOU DO IT.

The other officers at the scene need to take note.

Texas officer says police didn't go in to Uvalde school right away because they "could have been shot." THAT'S YOUR JOB, BRO!
If you wear the badge, you represent the law. If you represent the law, you put your body between the innocent and the criminals who would wish to hurt them.
NOTTHEBEE.COM

https://notthebee.com/article/texas...-they-could-have-been-shot-thats-your-job-bro

The Uvalde police department is located four minutes from Robb Elementary, so why did it take police 15 MINUTES to respond to the first reports of a gunman?
The details surrounding the Uvalde shooting continue to get more and more bizarre by the hour. We learned today, for instance, that the shooter fired off shots outside of the school for a whopping 12 minutes before he walked inside:
NOTTHEBEE.COM

https://notthebee.com/article/the-u...s-to-respond-to-the-first-reports-of-a-gunman

Albarado is a US Customs and Border Protection agent. The school was not in his jurisdiction. He didn't take time to get armor, squads of men, or fancy weapons. He grabbed his barber's shotgun (most Texas thing ever) and WENT TO WORK.

His daughter, a second-grader, was locked inside a bathroom while his wife hid under desks with her students, the Times reported.

When Albarado got there, the officers were milling about trying to figure out how doors work or something like that, so Albarado came up with a plan to get other students out while they took point on taking down the shooter.

He said he entered the wing of the school where he knew his daughter was located, and as he searched for her, began "clearing all the classes in her wing," he told the Times.

Two officers with guns drawn provided cover while two others guided dozens of "hysterical" children and teachers out to the sidewalk, he said.

Everything in this story screams "leader" to me. This guy had a just a shotgun and came from getting his hair cut, but he took point with two officers covering him.

When Albarado finally saw his 8-year-old daughter, Jayda, they embraced, but he kept moving forward to bring more students to safety.

"I did what I was trained to do," Albarado told the paper.

That's a hero.
In a Facebook post just after midnight Wednesday morning, Albarado said one of his daughter's teammates and friends was among the 19 students who were killed.

"I'm so angry, saddened and grateful all at once. Only time will heal their pain and hopefully changes will be made at all schools in the U.S. and teachers will be trained & allowed to carry in order to protect themselves and students," he wrote.

There's still so many details swirling about what happened. We know so little about the chain of events.

But as we wait for the truth to come out, I'm glad that a man like Albarado was there.

 

[riverman]

In response to two posts where it was implied that I was just trying to muddy the water and didn't care about the kids? After I have been trying to have policy based discussions on this the entire time and have encouraged other thoughts and ideas?

But I get tired of being called out and retaliate to an attack, you immediately jump to the defense of the person who attacked and insulted me multiple times?

And you don't have a political agenda? Really?

I made a post about that with a possible explanation above, with a chart and dates.

You might try reading it rather than just dismissing my attempts at polite conversation the way you have also done so far.

I didn't jump to the defense of anyone...I took issue with YOUR post about what YOU said concerning empathy and the left and I have read your posts and posted about the process of addressing gun laws just like you have.....what you said about people using death to promote their political agenda....I agree about most of your political views regularly here but this one I think you've gotten a bit off track here and yes.....I think you're showing little interest at least what I have to say about the subject...you're welcome to that opinion as I am welcome to mine. This topic is a trigger for you I'd guess and pardon the pun. Just get this clear....nobody here wants kids to die so they can pass laws.....they want to pass laws so kids don't die

 

[MARIS61]

Do not rely on the police.

You must arm yourself and be prepared to defend your family.

It is your responsibility.

AnnieOakley
May 27th, 2022 4:45 pm
On Friday, we learned the awful truth of what many of us had suspected all week: That law enforcement in Uvalde, Texas, waited around unconscionably while a psychopathic gunman was given free reign over a classroom full of 10-year-olds.

The professional implications of this inaction alone are almost unthinkably huge. One should anticipate, in any event, that a great many public servants in Uvalde, Texas are on the verge of losing their jobs and potentially facing legal consequences of some kind.

Beyond that, however, the comprehensive failure of law enforcement in this scenario has underscored yet again one of the basic and incontestable facts of life: You cannot depend upon the police to save your life in a life-threatening emergency. You must take care of yourself, and those around you, yourself.

We live in a strange time where that sort of principle is regarded as dangerous, reckless and foolish, and that we should not expect the average American citizen to be prepared to defend himself outside of calling the police and huddling in the corner.

It is not clear how, or why, we have arrived at this point, where courage is discouraged and practical cowardice is hailed as a virtue. The end result of that worldview, of course, was on full display in Uvalde this week, as nearly two dozen cops crouched in a hallway while a madman killed child after child with impunity.

Here is some practical advice: Do not expect the police are able, or even all that willing, to save you. Police are valuable parts of any civilized society, but they are neither saints nor angels and they should not be treated as either. It is not unreasonable to assume the best while planning the worst: That the police will fail to protect you in a life-threatening situation, either through incompetence or cowardice, and that you will die.

In fact, America's Founding Fathers never had police in mind when they wrote the Second Amendment. The best way to prevent crime and tyranny was to have a well armed and well trained citizenry, just as the best way to protect against government corruption in the judiciary is to be judged by a jury of one's peers.

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole [police] are armed" – Not Noah Webster

"The [police] are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them."- Not Zachariah Johnson

In fact, this is what George Mason had to say:

I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.

The next step is clear: Buy a handgun. Learn how to use it safely and well. Train regularly at the shooting range. Get a concealed carry permit. Push for constitutional carry laws. Keep the gun with you wherever you can. Get bigger and better blasters as needed. Practice unimpeachable gun safety 100% of the time.

Recognize that you will probably never have need to draw your weapon, let alone use it—but be prepared, always prepared, to do both to defend your lives and the lives of those around you.

The alternative, of course, is to be defenseless, to hope for the best, and—if a gunman should show up—to call the police and hope they show up in time.

Maybe they will and maybe they won't—and maybe they'll just end up hanging out in the hallway either way.

 

[MARIS61]

Lifeguard Waits An Hour For Backup Before Jumping In To Save Struggling Swimmer
U.S.
May 27th, 2022 - BabylonBee.com

SAN FERNANDO, CA—A lifeguard at the San Fernando Community Pool reportedly refused to jump in and save a drowning child who was fighting for his life in 6 feet of water because it would constitute risking his life. The lifeguard in question, Peter Stroll, claimed to be following standard lifeguarding procedure.

"Are you kidding? I can't save you right now. I might drown!" said Stroll as he picked up the phone to call for help. "According to the procedure, I will block all access to the pool and call for highly trained Coast Guard rescue divers to arrive."

The child's father attempted to jump into the pool and save his kid but was prevented by the determined lifeguard.

"Sir, I can't let you risk your own life. Let me do my job!" Stroll reportedly said in between whistle blows.

"Then do your job! Save him!" pleaded the parent.

"Sir, please. It's a liability for me to risk my life. Do you know how much the city would have to pay my family? Hundreds of dollars!"

The child was eventually rescued when a group of parents overpowered the masculine lifeguard and braved the dangerous chlorinated waters. Authorities arrived on the scene shortly after to assess the child's health and arrest everyone who tried to save the child.

"This is a pool of law and order!" Sheriff Witherdrew told reporters at the scene. "We can't just have people bypassing our sacred lifeguard institutions to take rescues into their own hands. Millions could be saved! It'd be total anarchy!"

At publishing time, lifeguard Peter Stroll was awarded a key to the city by Mayor Rankowicz for extreme bravery in following procedure to keep the city free of liability.

 

[MARIS61]

Beto Interrupts Press Conference To Remind Everyone He's A Giant Turd
Politics
May 26th, 2022 - BabylonBee.com

AUSTIN, TX—As leadership in Texas held a press conference to give updates on the tragic school shooting in Uvalde, candidate for governor Beto O'Rourke took the time to drop by and remind everyone he's a giant turd.

"Governor Abbott and people of Texas, my name is Robert Francis, and I am a massive turd," he began. "I am not just a turd but a tool, and a wanker as well! Vote for me this November!"

The bizarre weirdo then began to pass out "VOTE FOR BETO!" campaign literature to the stunned members of the audience.

Several Texas officials angrily stood up and informed O'Rourke that a school shooting press conference was not an appropriate place to remind everyone that he sucks.

"Listen, Beta, we all know you suck, but can we talk about this later? This isn't a good time," said Governor Abbott.

"NO! We shall talk about this RIGHT NOW!" cried O'Rourke, shaking his finger in the air. "The world must know just how much of a steaming pile of crap I am! I will NOT be silent! I'm garbage, I tell you, PURE GARBAGE! And I can do skateboard tricks! Watch!"

O'Rourke then performed a kickflip on a skateboard he had brought with him.

"Wow! A real live turd!" replied several Democrat members of the audience. "Finally, a candidate who tells it like it is!"

At publishing time, O'Rourke's public confrontation cost him dearly among independent voters but increased his popularity by 23% on the Left.

 

[riverman]

Do not rely on the police.

You must arm yourself and be prepared to defend your family.

It is your responsibility.

AnnieOakley
May 27th, 2022 4:45 pm
On Friday, we learned the awful truth of what many of us had suspected all week: That law enforcement in Uvalde, Texas, waited around unconscionably while a psychopathic gunman was given free reign over a classroom full of 10-year-olds.

The professional implications of this inaction alone are almost unthinkably huge. One should anticipate, in any event, that a great many public servants in Uvalde, Texas are on the verge of losing their jobs and potentially facing legal consequences of some kind.

Beyond that, however, the comprehensive failure of law enforcement in this scenario has underscored yet again one of the basic and incontestable facts of life: You cannot depend upon the police to save your life in a life-threatening emergency. You must take care of yourself, and those around you, yourself.

We live in a strange time where that sort of principle is regarded as dangerous, reckless and foolish, and that we should not expect the average American citizen to be prepared to defend himself outside of calling the police and huddling in the corner.

It is not clear how, or why, we have arrived at this point, where courage is discouraged and practical cowardice is hailed as a virtue. The end result of that worldview, of course, was on full display in Uvalde this week, as nearly two dozen cops crouched in a hallway while a madman killed child after child with impunity.

Here is some practical advice: Do not expect the police are able, or even all that willing, to save you. Police are valuable parts of any civilized society, but they are neither saints nor angels and they should not be treated as either. It is not unreasonable to assume the best while planning the worst: That the police will fail to protect you in a life-threatening situation, either through incompetence or cowardice, and that you will die.

In fact, America's Founding Fathers never had police in mind when they wrote the Second Amendment. The best way to prevent crime and tyranny was to have a well armed and well trained citizenry, just as the best way to protect against government corruption in the judiciary is to be judged by a jury of one's peers.

"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole [police] are armed" – Not Noah Webster

"The [police] are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them."- Not Zachariah Johnson

In fact, this is what George Mason had to say:

I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.

The next step is clear: Buy a handgun. Learn how to use it safely and well. Train regularly at the shooting range. Get a concealed carry permit. Push for constitutional carry laws. Keep the gun with you wherever you can. Get bigger and better blasters as needed. Practice unimpeachable gun safety 100% of the time.

Recognize that you will probably never have need to draw your weapon, let alone use it—but be prepared, always prepared, to do both to defend your lives and the lives of those around you.

The alternative, of course, is to be defenseless, to hope for the best, and—if a gunman should show up—to call the police and hope they show up in time.

Maybe they will and maybe they won't—and maybe they'll just end up hanging out in the hallway either way.

If you want to arm yourself and protect your family join the police force or become a security guard .....personally I hope when you do, some hormonal rage filled kid doesn't take your gun and go to school to y'know...."show them" We're the same age.....I'm guessing our guns have never protected our families....and yes...I have guns. Fact is we don't need them and if bad people couldn't get them easily we'd need them even less. I'm a responsible father and husband and grandfather whether I'm armed or not.....I'll defend my family with or without a gun...the gun isn't the insurance....it's the risk

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Yes, and if the doors were locked that wouldn't be a problem.

You don't know this. You have no idea if he could have gotten in anyway.

If the police were responsive that wouldn't be a problem.

Children were being killed before the police were even called. Again you don't know this.

If we had healthcare and education watching for signs of troubled kids like this that wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Troubled kids? Mass shooting happen at all ages. Did you happen to forget Las Vegas?
I agree mental health issues must be addressed.

Making snide comments about how stupid people are for not agreeing with you

Nobody anywhere made a snide comment except you with your "look scary" and trying to set up people with "Gotcha" pictures of rifles that happen to fired in much of the same way. Buy the way the M1 fires a .30-06 round which is more powerful than the AR15 5.56 round but doesn't have quite the velocity. So they are equally deadly.
Also go back and read again. I said the question is stupid. I at no time said you were stupid.

People who do that are every bit as much of a problem as the other side.

The only person here talking about sides is you. Children at schools know no sides. They just want to feel safe in school and their parents should feel safe sending them there. This problem is not about right and left. It's about right and wrong. When you start to understand that the conversation can actually start.

 

[RR7]

I feel like size or strength of the bullet discussion seems a little silly to me who, admittedly doesn't know much about guns, because those measures seem like they would matter a lot more when hunting deer and elk, and not 10 year olds.

 

[calvin natt]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I feel like size or strength of the bullet discussion seems a little silly to me who, admittedly doesn't know much about guns, because those measures seem like they would matter a lot more when hunting deer and elk, and not 10 year olds.

But it seems like that is all he was worried about. He literally posted pictures of the two weapons and asked the question.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

But I get tired of being called out and retaliate to an attack, you immediately jump to the defense of the person who attacked and insulted me multiple times?

No No No. Go back and read the thread. I simply said-

Yeah one of those options is common sense guns laws that would require better background checks and banning of certain types of guns that are nothing more than military style assault rifles made for killing people. Another law that could help would be holding people accountable for the way they store their guns and ammunition.

It's pretty simple.

Then you went off and started posting pictures of guns and acting like people were just afraid of guns because they were black.

So we're going to ban the black one because it is black? Do you think that makes it more dangerous?

Do you even read the comments you make?

Then you make this statement.

Expanding background checks isn't going to happen.

Well that's part of the problem don't you think?

You are not the victim here. The Kids and their families are.

I'm truly sorry background checks and making people accountable for their storage of the guns and ammunition is a hot button issue for you but many of us gun owners feel it's a very important part along with mental awareness and security in schools to curb this growing problem.

 

[calvin natt]

 

[crandc]

Annie Oakley was a target shooter. Unlike the sexist movie Annie Got Her Gun, where she throws a match, intentionally losing to a man with whom she had fallen in love, because "you don't get a man with a gun", in real life she won the match, he acknowledged her superior skill, they were married and he became her manager. So far as I know, Annie Oakley never shot a person.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[riverman]

Annie Oakley was a target shooter. Unlike the sexist movie Annie Got Her Gun, where she throws a match, intentionally losing to a man with whom she had fallen in love, because "you don't get a man with a gun", in real life she won the match, he acknowledged her superior skill, they were married and he became her manager. So far as I know, Annie Oakley never shot a person.

I just read a history channel article about her and it was fascinating....she married that guy Frank something and they stayed married for 50 years and died within a few weeks of each other in 1926...She offered to train a women's militia of sharp shooters to help with the war effort but was refused....the thing that baffled me is that she would not stand behind the women's lobby to vote. She won the Wimbledon shooting competition as well...she was an entertainer and according to history one of if not the greatest sharp shooters ever....the competition between her future husband and her he started with 24 of 25 shots perfect...she then shot all 25 ...Sitting Bull adopted her with a Native name that translated as Little Sure Shooter

 

[MARIS61]

Annie Oakley was a target shooter. ... in real life she won the match, he acknowledged her superior skill. So far as I know, Annie Oakley never shot a person.

A common outcome of being armed and a publicly proficient shooter.

It's literally the sole reason America has never been invaded.

 

[riverman]

A common outcome of being armed and a publicly proficient shooter.

It's literally the sole reason America has never been invaded.

Pearl Harbor says hello...Texas I guess wasn't a state when Santa Anna attacked the Alamo...but then again...white people in mass invaded the Americas and brought guns germs and slaves...and slaughtered innocent natives to take over the country. Let's not pretend they sprouted out of the soil here to begin with...we are a land of colonists and land grabbers...who killed for power and wealth It's common for white folks to gloss over the genocide that put them in power here to begin with. ..you say you like history...you should be able to acknowledge our own bad behavior throughout it. Anne Oakley didn't stop people from killing the buffalo and robbing people of their source of food, clothing and shelter in the winter...that's what her friends did...for bounty..starving out elderly people, women, children and the men of the tribes...crimes against humanity America is guilty of over the course of our own history.....101

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It's literally the sole reason America has never been invaded.

England.

They burned our capital down.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[riverman]

England.

They burned our capital down.

America was also invaded by the Confederacy...yet the flags are still around all these years later

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos' sister is serving in the US Navy and rushed home to be with their grandmother in hospital after he shot the 66-year-old in the face

• Marisabelle Ramos, 21, is three years older than her dead brother Salvador, who was responsible for Tuesday’s massacre at Robb Elementary School
• ‘My granddaughter Marisabelle is in the Navy and currently stationed in San Diego, California’ grandfather Rolando Reyes exclusively told DailyMail.com
• Reyes said Marisabelle rushed back to San Antonio to be with her grandmother Celia after receiving the tragic news
• ‘She’s with her grandmother in the hospital and staying in San Antonio for the time being’
• Celia is in a San Antonio hospital after being shot in the face by grandson, Salvador, just before he gunned down 21 people at Robb Elementary
• Celia’s daughter Natalie has set up a GofundMe account her mother that has only drawn $250 in donations as of Saturday evening

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-serving-Navy-came-home-comfort-grandma.html

 

[Phatguysrule]

In past conversations you have iterated that Ar15s are not as dangerous.

They are just as dangerous in that they both kill, but Ar15s are more dangerous because of what they represent.

If we ban AR15's or somehow make them too expensive to buy people will start making them on the black market, and they will be fully automatic (it's far easier to make a fully automatic than a semi-automatic, and they are in higher demand).

Or they will choose to use a semi-automatic 30-06, which while it does travel at a very slightly slower speed, impacts with around twice the force and a larger mass. It will destroy anybody it hits, and if they are small and in a line it'll probably destroy the next 3 people in line. You can buy or make extended magazines for these, or you can just bring multiple magazines. It takes about half a second to change magazines with an afternoon of practice.

I don't see any way that this would be anything other than incredibly counterproductive. And it would take decades to achieve. And the political capital will be wasted which could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives as well as improved the lives of millions.

What happens when the military changes to the new XM-5? Another decades long fight to ban another model? Or is there a specific feature you're looking to ban?

The law has to be specific. What feature is banned? The magazine? The ammunition? Barrel length? The lower receiver? What specific aspect of these parts make them qualify to be banned? How do you ban this highly adaptable almost lego-like style of weapon without banning nearly all other hunting models?

That's the point. And that's what will make this take forever, and likely fail in the end. Because there is nothing specific to these guns that makes them more dangerous or different than most hunting rifles that have been sold for the last 100 years. They are quite literally less capable of killing than most hunting rifles.