Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

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Chris Craig said:
Why wouldn't they? Magazines, ads, and such marketing play a big role in young people buying these guns. Ooh assault rifle...ooh that looks the gun I used in call of duty...ooh assault rifle....what makes that gun so dangerous is the perceptions put around it and the culture that creates. All of this marketing has created that.

There was ad above somewhere of a kid with one of these. Start them early was it's message. That is fucking reprehensible.
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Yeah, misinformation is definitely a problem. But I don't believe Bigfoot exists just because I saw it on a magazine.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
You all see what I mean?
Let’s just muddy that water some more and then we can all get a good nights sleep.


Except for those in Oklahoma now…
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Why do you think being specific is mudying the water? Why is calling out misinformation a bad thing on this topic?

You can't just ignore the details if you actually want to address societal problems.
 
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riverman said:
Oh I know.....my second son hunts boar with an AR15 and belongs to the NRA and is a MAGA fan as well....I love him but we have this conversation all the time. He reminds me of mags but is respectful of me even though we disagree......he went hunting recently and shot hundreds of rounds and came home with one old boar that wasn't edible...I teased him about that..my younger brother is the same. I grew up hunting in Iowa and as I've stated....a good hunter won't shoot more than twice at wild game because after it's bolted it's adrenaline spoils the taste of the meat...a good hunter will take them when they are calm and still....not running My father got his limit on elk and deer every season with a bolt action 30 06 that didn't hold multiple rounds...professional snipers use single shot rifles usually. I'm not someone unfamiliar with the culture but I don't think modern AR guns were designed with good hunting practices in mind..they are designed to maximize the ability to make multiple kills and yeah...that's what they do.
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I understand, but wild pigs are a menace, they are trying to kill as many as possible and the vast majority of the meat is not for human consumption.

They are going out in many of these states not trying to get one. They are trying to kill the whole herd of dozens....
 
Chris Craig said:
Alot of people do.
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True, but you don't make a public policy to hunt Bigfoot.

You need real information to base public policy on.

This is where education comes in. We should be putting our efforts into helping people identify misinformation rather than trying to get rid of everything misinformation points us at.
 
Hoopguru said:
How about assault look alike paint ball guns? Rat a tat tat....I played with Fanner 50's in the 50's.
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Just like the Camel Cigarette Camel being forced into retirement, I think all marketing to kids and toy replicas should be banned. There can still be cartoon-like toy guns but not toy replicas of actual weapons.
 
Hoopguru said:

Toy Foam Blasters & Guns - Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com › Toy-Foam-Blasters-Guns
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HPE04pg.jpg
 
If only freeways had doors this could have been prevented.


 
Fairly-Hard said:
I actually decided to read the beginning of this thread.
Yeah I tend to agree we have become extremely desensitized to the killing of school children and those who teach them.

I agree it’s very sad.
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Agreed. It's cruel to label any place as a "gun free zone" to be targeted without proper security or the ability to defend themselves.

It's incredibly sad.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
If only freeways had doors this could have been prevented.


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If only we had laws that made this kind of thing illegal this could have been prevented.

After all, the Hells Angels are renowned for their diligence in following the law...
 
Well 20 pages in and still everything that can help is acceptable except Gun Control.

I know that still seems to be the case today so I’m gonna just stop there.

It’s truly sad that anything and everything including locking children in schools and keeping them in a prison is an acceptable alternative rather than maybe put forth some common sense gun laws. Never mind fire danger and a multitude of other safety issues.
Heck some people want teachers packing guns so they can be the first line of defense. Maybe we can start every class of every grade with a gun safety course and make it part of the curriculum?
We could even arm the sergeant at arms for every class. He can draw some of the fire from the school shooter that broke a window and got in anyway. Oh that’s right we put bars on the windows. No need to worry about that?
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Well 20 pages in and still everything that can help is acceptable except Gun Control.

I know that still seems to be the case today so I’m gonna just stop there.

It’s truly sad that anything and everything including locking children in schools and keeping them in a prison is an acceptable alternative rather than maybe put forth some common sense gun laws. Never mind fire danger and a multitude of other safety issues.
Heck some people want teachers packing guns so they can be the first line of defense. Maybe we can start every class of every grade with a gun safety course and make it part of the curriculum?
We could even arm the sergeant at arms for every class. He can draw some of the fire from the school shooter that broke a window and got in anyway. Oh that’s right we put bars on the windows. No need to worry about that?
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That's what Mao did....arm the children and arrest their parents and teachers who wouldn't tow the Red Army line...send them to re-education camps..burn any books that didn't follow the party line either.
 
riverman said:
That's what Mao did....arm the children and arrest their parents and teachers who wouldn't tow the Red Army line...send them to re-education camps..burn any books that didn't follow the party line either.
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Well you know we do have a tremendous Wild feral swine problem. We certainly can’t cut back on assault rifles because the pigs will trample the crops.
 
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Fairly-Hard said:
Well you know we do have a tremendous Wild feral swine problem. We certainly can’t cut back on assault rifles because the pigs will trample the crops.
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Sad I have to say this, but how many children would die from the decrease in crop production.. oh, likely none? Interesting. Can't wait to hear all the other reasons the ferel hog population is more important to eradicate than these children's lives.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Well 20 pages in and still everything that can help is acceptable except Gun Control.

I know that still seems to be the case today so I’m gonna just stop there.

It’s truly sad that anything and everything including locking children in schools and keeping them in a prison is an acceptable alternative rather than maybe put forth some common sense gun laws. Never mind fire danger and a multitude of other safety issues.
Heck some people want teachers packing guns so they can be the first line of defense. Maybe we can start every class of every grade with a gun safety course and make it part of the curriculum?
We could even arm the sergeant at arms for every class. He can draw some of the fire from the school shooter that broke a window and got in anyway. Oh that’s right we put bars on the windows. No need to worry about that?
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It's interesting that you have to keep misrepresenting my position in order to engage. Doesn't that make you question how strong your case is?

Never once have I suggested locking children in school. You bring up the fire issues, even though that has been discussed at length, and proven not to be a relevant concern (same number of exits, but only one entrance). Doors locking only from the outside, but easily opening from the inside is technology we've had for a long freaking time.

You claim there are a multitude of other safety issues, but haven't mentioned any.

You again claim that I am opposed to gun control in general, even though I have suggested forms of gun control.

I've never suggested bars on windows... I'm not sure where you dreamed that up.

If this is all you have it's no wonder nothing ever gets done. The inconsistencies in these positions are numerous and blatant.

So people like you will stick stubbornly to the belief that you aren't the problem, even though you're just as much a part of the stalemate as anyone.

So nothing will get done and violent crime and murder of children and other innocent people will continue at much higher rates than necessary. We'll have to wait decades or longer for the improvements in education and Healthcare which will actually help the problem.

It's quite disgraceful how dishonest your position has been, and how eager others have been to support it. Even though you've been proven wrong at nearly every turn.

Are you going to start claiming the 7.62 and 30-06 are aren't similar again, like you know so much about guns? Even though they are universally considered equivalent calibers?

I was hoping for honest conversation here and I must say I've lost some respect for you on that front.

It's a shame, but it does point out exactly why kids will keep dying unnecessarily.

However, I'll still be here hoping for polite conversation on the topic.
 
Shaboid said:
Sad I have to say this, but how many children would die from the decrease in crop production.. oh, likely none? Interesting. Can't wait to hear all the other reasons the ferel hog population is more important to eradicate than these children's lives.
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How many children would be saved by the proposals that have been made in here? Care to show me the numbers?

Because the numbers I've shown on changes pre and post gun control other countries have been no better than the improvements we've had by ending the assault weapons ban here in the US. Yes, violent crime and murder rates dropped even though the assault weapons ban expired.

The numbers on gun control in this country have been miserable. Not even impacting intention homicides in nearly every case.

Mass murders started happening more as social media started expanding (I posted a chart on that as well), increasing the dispair in so many people in this country. And we don't have the healthcare system, education system, or social safety net to deal with that.

The other countries really lowered their violent crime and murder rates after WW2, when they were largely forced to institute universal health care and universal education, and generous social safety nets.

We've not done that, so of course we have much higher violent crime and murder rates. However, the greatest gains we've ever made on violent crime and murder rates, including gun crime, has been when our economy is good, and the environment is improving (ending leaded fuel), and the people are less desperate. Like from the 90s to 2008.

The UK and Brazil both saw violent crime and murder rates increase after instituting gun control. As has Mexico. Russia has fewer guns than the UK, yet violent crime and murder rates 4x ours here in the US. Sure, there are large crime elements in some of these countries, but the US has like 3 of the top 10 crime syndicates in the world operating here as well.

It's nice to think we could just snap our fingers and blame a specific type of gun and the problem would be solved. Or just pretend we can convince 80 million people to give up 400 million guns... But it's just not that easy.

That'll take generations. Which means one side pushing to restrict the rights of all Americans while the other side refuses to allow that will likely result in many more of these kinds of killings.

It's a shame that both sides accept it and are just happy to point fingers across the isle...
 
Phatguysrule said:
How many children would be saved by the proposals that have been made in here? Care to show me the numbers?

Because the numbers I've shown on changes pre and post gun control other countries have been no better than the improvements we've had by ending the assault weapons ban here in the US. Yes, violent crime and murder rates dropped even though the assault weapons ban expired.

The numbers on gun control in this country have been miserable. Not even impacting intention homicides in nearly every case.

Mass murders started happening more as social media started expanding (I posted a chart on that as well), increasing the dispair in so many people in this country. And we don't have the healthcare system, education system, or social safety net to deal with that.

The other countries really lowered their violent crime and murder rates after WW2, when they were largely forced to institute universal health care and universal education, and generous social safety nets.

We've not done that, so of course we have much higher violent crime and murder rates. However, the greatest gains we've ever made on violent crime and murder rates, including gun crime, has been when our economy is good, and the environment is improving (ending leaded fuel), and the people are less desperate. Like from the 90s to 2008.

The UK and Brazil both saw violent crime and murder rates increase after instituting gun control. As has Mexico. Russia has fewer guns than the UK, yet violent crime and murder rates 4x ours here in the US. Sure, there are large crime elements in some of these countries, but the US has like 3 of the top 10 crime syndicates in the world operating here as well.

It's nice to think we could just snap our fingers and blame a specific type of gun and the problem would be solved. Or just pretend we can convince 80 million people to give up 400 million guns... But it's just not that easy.

That'll take generations. Which means one side pushing to restrict the rights of all Americans while the other side refuses to allow that will likely result in many more of these kinds of killings.

It's a shame that both sides accept it and are just happy to point fingers across the isle...
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I commented what I was hoping to happen in a different post and you liked it but did not offer a comment. You've shown some stats on nothing I've mentioned that I can remember besides how these laws won't work in countries that are not America. Are they not working in individual states? Those studies would interest me more than the studies done comparing us to other countries and their gun control laws. I'm searching for answers and hopefully more laws to stop the senseless murder of our citizens and especially children.

My last post was about how I think the "we need them at our current rate because they help us shoot hogs and varmint" is a stupid argument. Nothing more, nothing less. Didn't even claim you were the one making the argument, although you did bring it up. I can see why you would want to rebut with the same arguments you've been bringing forth in this thread but those have been discussed and acknowledged by me already..
 
Shaboid said:
My last post was about how I think the "we need them at our current rate because they help us shoot hogs and varmint" is a stupid argument. Nothing more, nothing less. Didn't even claim you were the one making the argument, although you did bring it up. I can see why you would want to rebut with the same arguments you've been bringing forth in this thread but those have been discussed and acknowledged by me already..
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Nobody made that argument, but the claim was made that nobody uses them for hunting. And that the idea of anybody using an AR for hunting was preposterous.

I replied to that misinformation, that's it. They are used, and the people who use them to hunt prefer them for that purpose.

I do apologize for restating the same thing over and over, but it feels necessary as my stances keep getting wrongly stated by others. So I'm trying to be overly clear.

Much gun death in this country happens in states with strict gun control like California and Illinois. Where you actually do need a license to have a gun in your possession.

Oregon passed universal background checks, including private parties, in 2015. Murder rates have risen every year since then, and we're getting record highs right now...

https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...us-time-portland-oregon-sees-record-homicides
 
Mediocre Man said:
I own guns. HOWEVER, If guns were not permitted, I would have no reason to have a gun, and would be happy to sell them back to the country

NO ONE needs an AR style gun
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With other styles of guns, no one no one NEEDS any specific style of gun.

What makes an AR style gun more dangerous than other modern semiautomatic rifles? How would removing it from the equation save even 1 life over other styles available?

Regarding no guns, what about the 500,000 to 3 million defensive gun uses the CDC says happen every year in the USA? From wild animals to muggings, etc... Without guns small or sickly people would be at the mercy of larger people and animals.
 
Phatguysrule said:
With other styles of guns, no one no one NEEDS any specific style of gun.

What makes an AR style gun more dangerous than other modern semiautomatic rifles? How would removing it from the equation save even 1 life over other styles available?

Regarding no guns, what about the 500,000 to 3 million defensive gun uses the CDC says happen every year in the USA? From wild animals to muggings, etc... Without guns small or sickly people would be at the mercy of larger people and animals.
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If you are arguing for guns, we have nothing in common
 
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