Fuck this healthcare Reform...

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See the bolded part:

I saw. But I think you understand the sophistry of saying "I think his policies smack of socialism and fascism, but I don't think he's a socialist or fascist."

It's a "I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'" type of thing.
 
I saw. But I think you understand the sophistry of saying "I think his policies smack of socialism and fascism, but I don't think he's a socialist or fascist."

It's a "I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'" type of thing.

Not at all the same thing. I'm saying something along the lines of "the moderators at the other forum are fascist when they do X to people."

Are the moderators actual fascists? They're probably democrats.
 
Same thing, obviously.

So you ARE admitting you think Obama is a fascist.

I don't think he's fascist. I think he's part delusional, part incompetent, and very dangerous with a democratic majority.
 
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._events/healthcare/march_2010/health_care_law

Health Care Law

63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

Monday, May 24, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement

Support for repeal of the new national health care plan has jumped to its highest level ever. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 63% of U.S. voters now favor repeal of the plan passed by congressional Democrats and signed into law by President Obama in March.

Prior to today, weekly polling had shown support for repeal ranging from 54% to 58%.

Currently, just 32% oppose repeal.

The new findings include 46% who Strongly Favor repeal of the health care bill and 25% who Strongly Oppose it.

While opposition to the bill has remained as consistent since its passage as it was beforehand, this marks the first time that support for repeal has climbed into the 60s. It will be interesting to see whether this marks a brief bounce or indicates a trend of growing opposition.

Thirty-three percent (33%) of voters now believe the health care plan will be good for the country, down six points from a week ago and the lowest level of confidence in the plan to date. Fifty-five percent (55%) say it will be bad for the nation. Only three percent (3%) think it will have no impact.

The Political Class continues to be a strong supporter of the plan, however. While 67% of Mainstream voters believe the plan will be bad for America, 77% of the Political Class disagree and think it be good for the country.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on May 22-23, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Sixty-three percent (63%) of all voters expect the health care plan to increase the federal deficit. Just 12% expect the bill to push the deficit down, while 13% say it will have no impact.

Fifty-five percent (55%) say the plan will make the quality of health care in the country worse. Twenty percent (20%) expect it to improve the quality of health care, and 18% think quality will stay about the same.

Fifty-five percent (55%) also expect the health care plan to drive up the cost of health care rather than achieve its stated goal of causing those costs to go down. Only 18% believe health care costs will indeed go down because of the plan’s passage. Another 16% expect costs to stay about the same.

Male voters remain more critical of the health care plan than female voters.

While sizable majorities of Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party continue to favor repeal of the plan, most Democrats remain supportive.

Please sign up for the Rasmussen Reports daily e-mail update (it's free) or follow us on Twitter or Facebook. Let us keep you up to date with the latest public opinion news.
 
Right-wing drivel. RAT-mussen is more like it. They show their bias with this quote:
While sizable majorities of Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party continue to favor repeal of the plan, most Democrats remain supportive.

Okay, sarcasm over. Seriously, I don't like the last blurb I quoted very much. What is it about the plan that makes "most Democrats" support it? Is it that they can see through the bias of everyone else and recognize this is a good thing, not something for a fearmongerer to latch on to? Is it that they are blindly following whatever their leaders put out there? Is it that Democrats are usually liberal or progressive and see socialized health care as a good thing? Someone help me out here.
 
Are the moderators actual fascists? They're probably democrats.

I don't think the democrats would accept me. And honestly, there's something to be said for the whole "mandatory military service, uniforms at schools, regimented training and playtime for children" thing...
Love him or hate him, Hitler did get the Hitler Youth thing right for awhile. Right?
 
This can't be true. I've been told by posters in this-here forum that much of the opposition to the Health Care reform was because it didn't include a public option.
 
I don't think the democrats would accept me. And honestly, there's something to be said for the whole "mandatory military service, uniforms at schools, regimented training and playtime for children" thing...
Love him or hate him, Hitler did get the Hitler Youth thing right for awhile. Right?

The president's physical fitness program, union pensions, and public old age retirement as well.
 
It seems things may not be going according to the Democrats' plan:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704289504575312610438320480.html

ObamaCare and the Independent Vote
Voter opposition hasn't changed, and it could be decisive in November.


By David Brady, Daniel Kessler And Douglas Rivers

The Democrats made a strategic choice to pass health reform even though they knew it did not have majority support. They assumed passage would generate a positive initial response from the media—which it did. They also hoped that, with time, voters would see reform in a more favorable light, and that health care would not pose an issue in the midterm elections. Were the Democrats right? If our polling is correct, they were not.

In January, we asked voters in 11 states that could have competitive Senate races in November—Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Louisiana, Missouri, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio and Pennsylvania—how they felt about health reform and how they were likely to vote. The polls were conducted by YouGov using a panel of Internet users selected to represent registered voters in each state. We found widespread opposition to reform—and to the Democratic senators who voted in favor of it.

Last month, we went back to the same voters and asked the same questions. We found that public opinion about health reform is roughly stable, and opposition to reform appears to be an important determinant of voting intention in the midterm elections—particularly for political independents.

In January, a majority in each of the 11 states opposed health reform. Not surprisingly, public opinion was more favorable in the more liberal states. Voters in Connecticut opposed reform by a margin of 55% to 45%, whereas voters in Louisiana opposed reform 63% to 37%. In key battleground states like Colorado and Ohio, voters opposed reform 58% to 42%.

By the end of May, opposition had generally declined, although the declines were small and not statistically significant. Notably, health reform's biggest gains have come in the most liberal states, where election outcomes are less in doubt. Opinion about reform in Connecticut is now evenly split at 50/50; opinion in Louisiana went more negative, to 64% against and 36% for. In battleground states, opposition to reform has hardly budged. Voters in Colorado and Ohio still oppose reform 56% to 44% and 57% to 43%, respectively.

To determine how this is likely to affect the midterms, we used a statistical model to isolate the independent impact of people's opinion about health reform, one factor among many of their candidate preferences. In our model, we controlled for people's party identification; their self-reported ideology and 2008 presidential vote; their current opinion about President Obama; and an extensive set of demographic characteristics, including age, gender, race, income, education, state of residence and health-insurance status.

In both January and May, opinion about reform had a statistically significant and electorally important impact on intention to vote against the Democratic candidate for Senate. Voters who opposed health reform were around 20 percentage points more likely to vote for the Republican candidate.

We also asked the standard generic ballot question, "If the 2010 elections for the House of Representatives were held today, would you vote Democrat or Republican?" If anything, the effect of health reform on House races is even larger than the 20 point effect on Senate races. In January, voters who opposed health reform were 24 points more likely to vote Republican; by May, they were 44 points more likely. This is consistent with Charles Franklin's analysis in Pollster.com showing that, for the first time since 1994, Republicans lead in the generic ballot.

These estimates mask important differences among voters and among states. Back to Colorado and Ohio. Even if Mr. Obama could convince every self-identified Republican in these states to favor his health-reform plan, our model predicts that he would not switch many votes. The same holds for Republicans. Even if they could convince every self-identified Democrat to oppose health reform, very few Democrats would change their mind at the ballot box.

In contrast, independents' views about health reform have a much greater effect on their vote intention. If, in either Colorado or Ohio, the president could swing independents' opinion about health reform in his favor, our model predicts that the Democratic candidate for Senate could pick up as much as six additional percentage points of the independent vote.

In Colorado, this would mean that independents would split 56% to 44% for the Democrat rather than 50/50; in Ohio, it would mean that independents would split 52% to 48% rather than 57% to 43% for the Republican. In a close race, this could be enough to put the Democrat in the lead. Given the stability of public opinion in close states, our analysis suggests that the president faces an uphill battle.

Mr. Brady is a professor of political science at Stanford University and deputy director of the Hoover Institution. Mr. Kessler is a professor of business and law at Stanford and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. Mr. Rivers is a professor of political science at Stanford, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, and president of YouGov Polimetrix.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10971283

Survey: Individual Health Insurance Premiums Jump
Kaiser foundation survey finds steep jump in individual health insurance premiums

By TOM MURPHY
The Associated Press

INDIANAPOLIS

People who buy their own health insurance have been hit lately with premium hikes that far exceed increases in premiums for employer-sponsored coverage, according to a new survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

The nonprofit foundation, which is separate from health insurer Kaiser Permanente, said recent premium hikes requested by insurers for individual coverage averaged 20 percent. Some customers were able to switch plans and pay less, so people paying on their own actually wound up paying 13 percent more on average.

That tops last year's average 5 percent annual increase for employer-sponsored family coverage and almost unchanged premiums for employer-sponsored single coverage, though foundation Vice President Gary Claxton said the comparisons come with qualifications.

The individual insurance survey asked respondents for their most recent premium increases, and those can happen more or less frequently than the annual increases mostly seen in the group market, he noted.

In the online poll, Kaiser queried 1,038 randomly selected people who pay for their own coverage.

Individual health insurance premiums generally rise faster than group coverage rates. They can be affected by variables like a person's age. They also can be affected by rising medical and drug costs and are more vulnerable when a bad economy makes healthy people drop coverage.

That can leave an insurer with a higher concentration of sick people who keep coverage because they need it more and thus generate more claims.

The market also appears to be cyclical, with a big increase following a couple years of smaller ones, said Robert Laszewski, a health care consultant and former insurance executive who wasn't involved with the Kaiser study.

But even with a sizable average increase, individual premiums still span a wide range from no increases to huge hikes.

"There is no real consistency," Laszewski said.

Guy Gooding of Sobieski, Wis., who is 59, said premiums for his and his wife's health coverage have risen 73 percent from 2007. They now pay about $646 per month, compared with $374 in 2007.

He said he has kept up with the increases because he doesn't want to sacrifice the quality of his coverage. But he'd like more of an explanation from his insurer, Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield.

"They're very vague on why the increases have been as much as they have been," he said.

Insurers drew heavy criticism earlier this year after requesting premium increases of 20 percent or more from their individual customers in several different markets. Analysts who follow the insurance industry say reports of those increases helped re-ignite the health care reform debate.

Congress then passed in March a reform bill that aims to offer health coverage to millions of uninsured people and help people buy individual coverage through exchanges that will be launched in 2014.

About 14 million Americans under age 65 receive health insurance through the non-group or individual market, according to the foundation. In contrast, about 157 million U.S. residents get their coverage through an employer.

Kaiser conducted the survey in March and April. The results had a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

———

Online:

http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/8077.cfm
 
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Bunch of old people in this thread, apparently.

barfo
 

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