Fuck this healthcare Reform...

[chris_in_pdx]

This country is batshit crazy. It's a wonder anything gets done in this polarized hellhole of a political system we have. 10% of the country is at the other 10%'s throat, and the 80% in the middle just shake their heads and concede that no one's listening to anyone anymore except to their own rabid base cheerleaders. Maybe we should just rescind the results of the Civil War: let all of the conservative bible-thumpers inhabit the South, the tree-hugging granola-eating liberals the West, and the snobby elitist wine-snifters the North. Make three seperate countries, and see how long it takes to devolve into anarchy.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This country is batshit crazy. It's a wonder anything gets done in this polarized hellhole of a political system we have. 10% of the country is at the other 10%'s throat, and the 80% in the middle just shake their heads and concede that no one's listening to anyone anymore except to their own rabid base cheerleaders. Maybe we should just rescind the results of the Civil War: let all of the conservative bible-thumpers inhabit the South, the tree-hugging granola-eating liberals the West, and the snobby elitist wine-snifters the North. Make three seperate countries, and see how long it takes to devolve into anarchy.

 

[Eastoff]

Just to clarify, we are the only industrialized country that does not have universal healthcare.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

And we're the #1 country in the world.

 

[Minstrel]

And we're the #1 country in the world.

Homer.

 

[Eastoff]

being #1 must have a lot to do with healthcare!

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

This country is batshit crazy. It's a wonder anything gets done in this polarized hellhole of a political system we have. 10% of the country is at the other 10%'s throat, and the 80% in the middle just shake their heads and concede that no one's listening to anyone anymore except to their own rabid base cheerleaders. Maybe we should just rescind the results of the Civil War: let all of the conservative bible-thumpers inhabit the South, the tree-hugging granola-eating liberals the West, and the snobby elitist wine-snifters the North. Make three seperate countries, and see how long it takes to devolve into anarchy.

I was reffering to an economic ideology, i never referenced anything about religion or social issues, just economic ideology of the current regime

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

oooohhhhhhhh SCAAAAAAARY WOOOOOOOORDS



I know FOX news works on you, but it doesn't work on all of us.

Dont watch much fox news, just an anti-communist, I immigrated from a country destroyed by communsm to be a part of the greatest country in the world, one that thrived on the american dream and capitalism, where hard work is the difference between me and the next guy

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Dont watch much fox news, just an anti-communist, I immigrated from a country destroyed by communsm to be a part of the greatest country in the world, one that thrived on the american dream and capitalism, where hard work is the difference between me and the next guy

well, if the next guy sucks, you'll just pay for him now!

 

[e_blazer]

Except for the fact that this "insurance on their own" idea of yours doesn't exist.

Pretty sure that any healthy 26 year old won't have any problem finding a private plan to cover them. All they have to do is apply and start paying the premiums.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Its so easy!

If anything it keeps mom and dad on the hook for 5 more years!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

If parents are still paying for their kid's healthcare up to 26, can they still claim them as "dependants"?

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

well, if the next guy sucks, you'll just pay for him now!

This is what the main problem is.... let me be me, the next guy should get off his ass and start working


My parents came to this country with nothing, a few dollars, they worked there asses off for over 30 years with work most people would never do, but now they can say they have been succesful and created a great future for their kids and for their retirement

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

That America will not exist in the future. It does not exist now.

Change!

 

[julius]

This is what the main problem is.... let me be me, the next guy should get off his ass and start working


My parents came to this country with nothing, a few dollars, they worked there asses off for over 30 years with work most people would never do, but now they can say they have been succesful and created a great future for their kids and for their retirement

so..what about the parents who worked for 30 years but lost everything, including their health insurance with the economic collapse of the last 3 years?

They worked their asses off too, and they were successful and created a great future for their kids and for their retirement. But were both laid off, and now work jobs that don't provide them with health care.

Fuck them too, huh?

Because that's obviously communism! Cept that it's not. But hey, if words can scare people, use em!

 

[Minstrel]

That America will not exist in the future. It does not exist now.

Change!

Things are always changing. Life is transitory. Permanence is illusory.

Hope that helps.

 

[blazerboy30]

We're going to pay ~$4000/year/person for healthcare. I'm all for providing a safety-net so that people don't experience financial ruin due to cancer, but $4000/year is providing much, much more than a safety net. Either that or there will be a LOT of waste and inefficiency.

Congrats on a expensive bill.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Who's paying $4k?

Not me, my healthcare is covered by my employer. I think its around $500 a month they said? Will I have to pay extra on top of that? fuck that son!

 

[julius]

We're going to pay ~$4000/year/person for healthcare. I'm all for providing a safety-net so that people don't experience financial ruin due to cancer, but $4000/year is providing much, much more than a safety net. Either that or there will be a LOT of waste and inefficiency.

Congrats on a expensive bill.

Is it actually going to cost a person 4000 a year?

iirc, HCP said he pays 1000 a month. I'm sure he'd rather pay 4000 a year for insurance.

 

[¹²³]

To understand the scope of the President’s victory last night, it’s helpful to listen to honest conservatives as they grapple with the crushing reality of their defeat. David Frum, a former adviser to president Bush, has been shooting straight since the beginning of this debate, and he nails it:

[I'd link to the source blog, but Frum's servers are already crying uncle.]

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing… This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only… this time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? … We do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. [emphasis added] The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s…

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? … Too late now…

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? …

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

Link

 

[OddEnormous]

one that thrived on the american dream and capitalism

Oh right, the good old "I work harder than the next guy!" thing.

I agree with you. Poor people never work hard. They deserve to be poor.

Capitalism has caused just as much if not more destruction. It depends on the exploitation of human beings. There is no such thing as rich people in a vacuum. You need poor people in capitalism or it doesn't work.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

so..what about the parents who worked for 30 years but lost everything, including their health insurance with the economic collapse of the last 3 years?

They worked their asses off too, and they were successful and created a great future for their kids and for their retirement. But were both laid off, and now work jobs that don't provide them with health care.

Fuck them too, huh?

Because that's obviously communism! Cept that it's not. But hey, if words can scare people, use em!

Im sorry, that sucks, but if they are still able to work, they get a job and are covered by their company....

I shouldnt be forced to pay for someone else's misfortune, even though that may seem cruel

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Oh right, the good old "I work harder than the next guy!" thing.

I agree with you. Poor people never work hard. They deserve to be poor.

Capitalism has caused just as much if not more destruction. It depends on the exploitation of human beings. There is no such thing as rich people in a vacuum. You need poor people in capitalism or it doesn't work.

Nothing was given to me. I worked my ass off in high school so i can get accepted in a decent university, once i got to that university, i did not get any scholarship and i paid my way through school with loans, once i graduated i got a decent paying job, and currently im paying off my loans and making money.

Thats how it works. If you work hard, you make it in this country. I didnt get any handouts and my parents werent blessed enough to pay my way through. I went to a public school and university, pretty sure everyone in this country has that ability...

 

[Minstrel]

I shouldnt be forced to pay for someone else's misfortune, even though that may seem cruel

Why? Their existence made your being better off possible. If you don't believe that this is true, go to a deserted island and see how rich you become with no society. Society enables riches and opportunity and you have to pay something back in return. It is so very capitalistic a principle, after all, that there's no such thing as a free lunch. You should pay for anything you get, which includes the opportunity to succeed.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Why? Their existence made your being better off possible. If you don't believe that this is true, go to a deserted island and see how rich you become with no society. Society enables riches and opportunity and you have to pay something back in return. It is so very capitalistic a principle, after all, that there's no such thing as a free lunch. You should pay for anything you get, which includes the opportunity to succeed.

Thats true, and i do pay a lot to a certain extent (currently ~ 32% of my income). But when you start heading down a slippery slope, eventually I will be paying half of my paycheck to the govt, and that isnt capitalism anymore

 

[julius]

Im sorry, that sucks, but if they are still able to work, they get a job and are covered by their company....

if they were still covered, then my point wouldn't have been made.

I shouldnt be forced to pay for someone else's misfortune, even though that may seem cruel

you're already paying for it.

 

[OddEnormous]

Nothing was given to me. I worked my ass off in high school so i can get accepted in a decent university, once i got to that university, i did not get any scholarship and i paid my way through school with loans, once i graduated i got a decent paying job, and currently im paying off my loans and making money.

Thats how it works. If you work hard, you make it in this country. I didnt get any handouts and my parents werent blessed enough to pay my way through. I went to a public school and university, pretty sure everyone in this country has that ability...

I didn't say anything was given to you.

Let's just not pretend capitalism is fair and just.

It's an exploitive system that NEEDS poor people to exist. You should just be grateful some are willing to do shitty jobs for 5 bucks an hour their whole life and realize how lucky you may have been to be born with the smarts, family, drive, dna etc to exploit the system like many of us have.

 

[julius]

Nothing was given to me. I worked my ass off in high school so i can get accepted in a decent university, once i got to that university, i did not get any scholarship and i paid my way through school with loans, once i graduated i got a decent paying job, and currently im paying off my loans and making money.

Thats how it works. If you work hard, you make it in this country. I didnt get any handouts and my parents werent blessed enough to pay my way through. I went to a public school and university, pretty sure everyone in this country has that ability...

What, you think all the people who are either A: poor B: unemployed C: uninsured or D: whatever, are just lazy people who got everything handed to them on a silver platter?

God I hope you never lose your job and can't find one that has health insurance and you lose your house. You'd obviously only have yourself to blame, since "if you work hard, you make it in this country".

 

[OddEnormous]

Why? Their existence made your being better off possible. If you don't believe that this is true, go to a deserted island and see how rich you become with no society. Society enables riches and opportunity and you have to pay something back in return. It is so very capitalistic a principle, after all, that there's no such thing as a free lunch. You should pay for anything you get, which includes the opportunity to succeed.

Bingo.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

I didn't say anything was given to you.

Let's just not pretend capitalism is fair and just.

It's an exploitive system that NEEDS poor people to exist. You should just be grateful some are willing to do shitty jobs for 5 bucks an hour their whole life and realize how lucky you may have been to be born with the smarts, family, drive, dna etc to exploit the system like many of us have.

No econmic model is "Perfect" but capitalism is as close as it gets, thats why this country had been the greatest country in the world for over a hundred years.

About your point of the people who work shitty jobs etc.

My parents worked those jobs, berry picking, janitorial work, and whatever else work they can get. But eventually they were able to get out of that rut of a life and climb the ladder. Thats what im saying, anyone can do it with hard work, you dont have to be smart.

I worked at fred meyer for 1 year when i was 16 (I hate fred meyer after that job)
I worked another year for a janitorial firm when i was 17 overnight while going to school.

So again, i worked pretty shitty jobs too.