Fuck this healthcare Reform...

[maxiep]

The place with the best doctors I'd assume. The United States.

Good news. None of us will have to travel.

You may not have to travel, but you'll have to wait if you're allowed to see them at all. You're making two assumptions: 1) You assume doctors will stay doctors just to work for less and take orders from bureaucrats; 2) You assume that the best and the brightest will still wish to become doctors. Countries that transition to socialized medicine demonstrate neither is the case.

 

[Denny Crane]

I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion.

Are you under the assumption that Doctors will stop caring about money? Are you under the impression that American doctors are the only ones who innovate? Fame, ego and money will not being going anywhere in the medical industry.

Secondly, lets say I agree with you. What difference would it make to me if doctors are innovative if I can't be treated by the innovations because I can't afford it?

Walgreens is the latest chain pharmacy to stop taking medicare payments/patients. Do you need more evidence that doctors will stop seeing people? Or they'll get out of the business altogether and get into banking or stocks where the govt. throws real money at them.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_14734180

The medical community is relatively split on the issue, though the American Medical Association and other groups endorsed the legislation. Dr. Tom LaGrelius, a Torrance physician, helped organize a revolt against legislators and AMA officials who supported reform.

LaGrelius says the legislation will drain the U.S. economy and do nothing to improve health care. He resigned from the AMA on Friday.

"I am in mourning for the near destruction of my profession," LaGrelius said. "I'm still in shock. This is a catastrophe."

He is opposed to the government forcing people to buy insurance, and worries in particular about the looming doctor shortage and the financial toll that subsidized health care will take on the federal budget.

"You're not going to find any primary care doctors to take care of all these patients," he said. "Doctors are smart, resourceful people, and they know they can't afford to do this. They're going to close shop and do something else."

If half the doctors (it says the profession is split!) quit, there's going to be an even more serious shortage of doctors than there already are. If you think waiting at the clinic takes a long time now, it's got to get 10% worse (we're insuring 10% more people).

 

[RR7]

They might be split, but that doesn't mean half of all doctors are going to just quit. Sensationalize much. Come on.

 

[Denny Crane]

They might be split, but that doesn't mean half of all doctors are going to just quit. Sensationalize much. Come on.

If 10% quit, it's a big hit.

We need 10% more, statistically.

 

[Ed O]

I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion.

Are you under the assumption that doctors will stop caring about money? Are you under the impression that American doctors are the only ones who innovate? Fame, ego and money will not being going anywhere in the medical industry.

Doctors aren't the ones that innovate. Corporations do, by funding research.

And I believe that it's quite likely that the supply of doctors will go down because the profit motive would be markedly reduced. The brain drain from other countries will slow and doctors who are motivated by money rather than merely helping people will do other things.

With the reduction in doctor supply but the cap on costs and the fixed demand, a shortage seems inevitable.

So everybody waits... which is one of the pretty consistent unintended consequences of socialism.

Secondly, lets say I agree with you. What difference would it make to me if doctors are innovative if I can't be treated by the innovations because I can't afford it?

I don't care about you as much as I care about the world overall. Further, I'm healthy in large part because of steps I take myself to remain so. I accept that some people aren't going to be covered and that's too bad, but it's not worth destroying the system that works well for the rest of the world.

Ed O.

 

[RR7]

If 10% quit, it's a big hit.

We need 10% more, statistically.

Whew, 40% decided to stick around in the last minute. Good to hear. Have you heard 10% of doctors polled saying they're going to quit? Try their hand on wall street instead, perhaps.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Doctors aren't the ones that innovate. Corporations do, by funding research.

And I believe that it's quite likely that the supply of doctors will go down because the profit motive would be markedly reduced. The brain drain from other countries will slow and doctors who are motivated by money rather than merely helping people will do other things.

With the reduction in doctor supply but the cap on costs and the fixed demand, a shortage seems inevitable.

So everybody waits... which is one of the pretty consistent unintended consequences of socialism.

Ed O.

Lol and i thought you were a leftie, (which you might very well be)

 

[Ed O]

Lol and i thought you were a leftie, (which you might very well be)

Right/left is too easy for people to throw around.

I definitely have elements of either, depending on the issue. Sometimes right/left doesn't apply...

Ed O.

 

[Denny Crane]

Whew, 40% decided to stick around in the last minute. Good to hear. Have you heard 10% of doctors polled saying they're going to quit? Try their hand on wall street instead, perhaps.

http://www.whig.com/story/news/Local-Health-Care-032310

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Those are the best type of people

 

[RR7]

http://www.whig.com/story/news/Local-Health-Care-032310

Where in that article were doctors saying they were going to quit?

 

[OddEnormous]

Doctors aren't the ones that innovate. Corporations do, by funding research.

Who do they fund?

I don't care about you as much as I care about the world overall.
Ed O.

Do you mean like Kevin from Norway?

"I" am the world overall. It's made up of a bunch of "I's"

 

[Denny Crane]

Where in that article were doctors saying they were going to quit?

It talks about the shortage of doctors and the disincentives for treating people whose care is partly paid for by the govt.

It does say this:

If the new health care means lower reimbursement rates or bulky administrative structures making hospitals and providers wait for payments, that could "amplify" the shortage by discouraging young people from entering the profession, Billings said.

 

[RR7]

So, it doesn't say any doctors are thinking of quitting? Gotcha. Thanks for the read I guess.

 

[Denny Crane]

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

 

[OddEnormous]

You may not have to travel, but you'll have to wait if you're allowed to see them at all. You're making two assumptions: 1) You assume doctors will stay doctors just to work for less and take orders from bureaucrats; 2) You assume that the best and the brightest will still wish to become doctors. Countries that transition to socialized medicine demonstrate neither is the case.

Love the retro scare tactics. It's so 2006.

 

[Ed O]

Who do they fund?

Why is that relevant if they don't have money to pay them?

That's like you asking what language they have their research published in... it doesn't matter.

Do you mean like Kevin from Norway?

"I" am the world overall. It's made up of a bunch of "I's"

Bull. It's made up of systems and knowledge and people.

Systems and knowledge exist outside of the collection of individual "I's".

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

That's neither 10% nor 50%.

Clearly you are wrong, Denny.

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

For better or for worse, we now have healthcare reform. Something had to be done with healthcare in the US. I'm not in any position to know if this was a good or bad for the healthcare system, but I do know Obama has done what a line of presidents couldn't do. This is history being made and we are living in it.

I'm sure whether you opposed it or were for it, at this stage we are all hoping it works.

GO USA!

 

[The_Lillard_King]

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

I consider quitting my job every day . . . I have yet to do it.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

For better or for worse, we now have healthcare reform. Something had to be done with healthcare in the US. I'm not in any position to know if this was a good or bad for the healthcare system, but I do know Obama has done what a line of presidents couldn't do. This is history being made and we are living in it.

I'm sure whether you opposed it or were for it, at this stage we are all hoping it works.

GO USA!

If you can't see what's happening here, its classic Marxist theory. The proletariat (unprotected class) has revolted.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

If you can't see what's happening here, its classic Marxist theory. The proletariat (unprotected class) has revolted.

I guess my point is there is nothing that can be done to stop the healthcare legislation at this point, so why not hope it works out?

But, no I'm not a history buff and can't see what is going on here other than a president trying to solve a problem that probably can't be solved.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I guess my poiny is there is nothing that can be done to stop the healthcare legislation at this point, so why not hope it works out?

Work out to what?

The seeds are planted, we are on the path to sweeping new socialist policies, all in the name to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

 

[Ed O]

I guess my point is there is nothing that can be done to stop the healthcare legislation at this point, so why not hope it works out?

"Working out" is ambiguous.

The people who want to redistribute wealth have different priorities than others. What works for one will not necessarily work for the other... and it might be close to a zero-sum game.

If everyone is covered but there's a doctor shortage and the US no longer has AAA bond ratings (partly due to this massive expenditure that will continue in perpetuity) is that "working out"?

From the perspective of the champions of the previously uninsured: yes.

But should we all hope for that?

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Work out to what?

The seeds are planted, we are on the path to sweeping new socialist policies, all in the name to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

I want it to work out so that I don't hear stories anymore of elders having to choose between health care and eating. Between paying for perscription pills or paying rent.

I guess we can find fault in the people (the hundreds of thousands if not millions of them)for putting themselves in that situation and tell then to fuck off and die. Or we can try to help these citizens get decent healthcare.

If helping these people is being a socialist, then paint this country red and stamp socialist on the flag because this country is about to help the sick in a monumental way.

 

[OddEnormous]

Why is that relevant if they don't have money to pay them?

They fund doctors is the correct answer.

Bull. It's made up of systems and knowledge and people.

Your asking a lot of people to care about innovation they can not partake in.



BTW I have health care though work so I'm not speaking in selfish terms.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I want it to work out so that I don't hear stories anymore of elders having to choose between health care and eating. Between paying for perscription pills or paying rent.

I guess we can find fault in the people (the hundreds of thousands if not millions of them)for putting themselves in that situation and tell then to fuck off and die. Or we can try to help these citizens get decent healthcare.

If helping these people is being a socialist, then paint this country red and stamp socialist on the flag because this country is about to help the sick in a monumental way.

certainly the path we are headed down.

Pretty soon, we'll all get our soma.

next up....what if you can't pay your rent or housing? time for the government to take care of you now! EDIT: WAIT, we were already there.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

"Working out" is ambiguous.

The people who want to redistribute wealth have different priorities than others. What works for one will not necessarily work for the other... and it might be close to a zero-sum game.

If everyone is covered but there's a doctor shortage and the US no longer has AAA bond ratings (partly due to this massive expenditure that will continue in perpetuity) is that "working out"?

From the perspective of the champions of the previously uninsured: yes.

But should we all hope for that?

Ed O.

You're right, it is ambigious. Working out to me is that everyone has healthcare and it doesn't bankrupt this country or decrease the level of healthcare for all.


Again, probably an impossible task, but that is what I hope works out.

 

[OddEnormous]

If you can't see what's happening here, its classic Marxist theory. The proletariat (unprotected class) has revolted.

Sweet, We've come full circle.

Ahem...

SCAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYY WOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRDS....

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

its very easy to see where this will lead: Behavioral Control.