Game Thread GAME# 1: NUGGETS @ BLAZERS - OCTOBER 23, 2019 - WEDNESDAY, 7:00 (PDT), ESPN & NBCSNW

[BBert]

Seems to me that we just need to guard the 3pt line better. Our interior defense is legit.

This.

The Blazers are going to have the best interior defense in the league, in an era when the three point shot rules the day.

The problem was that, even when the Blazers defenders were within guarding distance of Denver players around the arc, the defensive pressure on the shot was soft as Charmin, with the same result. Not to mention too late.

 

[BBert]

Front court defense is not our problem in case you haven't noticed...

I agree. Front court defense is not one of our problems. But playing Tolliver meaningful minutes is.

 

[blazerfan11]

I know it might not be fair to say but Whiteside leaves a lot to be desired. He gets crazy stats, but when you actually focus on him you can spot mistakes on almost every defensive set. Sometimes he was like "Now i should guard Jokic? But if I go there how do i get the rebound? I ll just stay in the free throw line". And if there was no chance to block sometimes he doesn't even lift his hand. You could also see that he was a step late after catching the ball in the pick and roll, he was late to decide what to do with it. Maybe I got too much used to Nurkic's playmaking and defensive awareness, but it looked bad to me. And then you see 16 points, 19 rebounds and you say oh wtf he was a god, but Nurkic could get 14 points and 10 rebounds and his positive impact would be mugh higher.
Of course I'm not blaming the loss to Whiteside, this was not on him. Just a comparison with Nurkic and how the team is so much different and everybody needs time to get the chemistry.

I have voiced my concers for Simons and the lack of a playmaker in the 2nd unit and I fear this will haunt us all season long as the kid lacks experience and it shows. I was never a Hezonja believer as well. On the bright side Skal was amazing and Zach was solid although his outside shot needs a lot of work, that airball was shocking.

But after all we lost to a GREAT team that finished 2nd last season in the West and they brought back their entire team while we changed half of it,including 3 starters. The loss was to be expected and it doesn't mean we are that bad, I just hope we can get it together soon enough and not to lose much ground.

Man, I feel like I was watching a different game. Skal had a couple of nice defensive plays but overall didn't have a lot of impact beyond what you saw in the stats. He and Tolliver were just occupying space.

Whiteside (and Collins, to be fair) clearly had an impact on what Denver was doing, particularly in the first half. The interior was pretty much closed off when he was out there.

Portland couldn't figure out how to challenge three pointers, and that's why they lost. If Nurk were playing last night he doesn't do any better of a job guarding the three point line. We don't ask out centers to switch to the three point line (except for opposing centers at times). The Jokic threes were legit gripes, I think, but hey, he hit them at 30% last year so I didn't really have a problem with Whiteside's strategy of letting him fly.

My key points:

1. Stotts needs to use his 1 coaching challenge every single game in the first quarter on whatever ticky tack bullshit gets called on Zach. We should call it the Collins Challenge from now on. Use it to fucking embarrass refs. If you blow a questionable call on Zach YOU WILL GET CALLED ON IT. The strategy of holding onto it until the 4th quarter is a waste of time. By then the foul damage is done. Zach deserves a better rep in the league than he has, and the coach has an actual tool in his hands he can use to make that happen. (I'm going to start a new thread with this point just because I feel it so strongly.)

2. It's kind of annoying that we got Hood to sign with us by promising a starter's job. Because clearly Bazemore is a better fit for defending the perimeter and hustling, while Hood makes more sense scoring off the bench.

3. Portland is going to blindside a lot of teams this year with them thinking they can stroll to the rim like they do against most teams. Word is going to get around that if you hit a lot of threes, you'll win. If you don't, you won't. Because it's fucking hard to score with all those arms in the middle.

4. Neither Ant nor CJ were second banana tonight. Portland needs a second banana guard. Both guys seem to be trying new things (Ant = playing, CJ = take more threes) and I'm hoping they get used to it.

5. We picked a bad time to lose a home opener. There are a lot of road meals ahead. Kind of nervous.

I also worry about Bazemore in the 2nd unit. I have doubts about his shooting ability and with the 2nd unit he could just jack up shots because there aren't really any scorers there anyway and he's not been a passer in the past. He's going to take bad shots out of any flow.

 

[blazerfan11]

To me both Dame and CJ looked like they were gassed from the start. They certainly did not looked to be in mid season form. This was not a fine tuned machine out there.

But what frustrated me most was once again, our center can't guard other 3 pt shooting centers on the perimeter. Nurk can't do it and Hassan can't do it. You can't take them out because then Jokic would just pound inside, which Hassan did a great job defending against. You can't switch him on Millsap because he can also shoot 3's as well and is more mobile. There has to be a better solution.

We beat them in the conference semi-finals. How did that happen? Obviously there was a solution (enough) that worked then. To me, it was just horrible shooting by our team and terrible perimeter defense. That has little to do with the center position. We won with Enes Kanter starting at center. Was he the difference? He can do "it" but Nurk and Hassan can't?

 

[kjironman1]

Wait, so for the Warriors last year, the 50 wins and the playoffs wouldve been the "baseline"? What? This team based off the roster alone should win around 50 games. Winning 50 games and making the playoffs isnt an accomplishment anymore.

Teams in the top third talent-wise expect to be in the top third...

So you are going to pick the returning Champions with 4 returning All-Stars for your example? How about this year? Lets take that further. How about the Lakers last year or Pels? Maybe we should look at the Raptors? 50 wins has always and will always be the benchmark for a successful season. An NBA season is a marathon and there are many factors to making it a success. As the old saying goes "It why they play the games".
This Blazer team has changed drastically. Chemistry, Fit, Injuries, Contracts, Travel, the rest of the Western Conference are all issues that will have an impact. Just my opinion here but a 50+ win season will be very successful. It's why my season prediction was 47 and 6th seed. 6th seed last year had the Thunder at 49 wins. Eastern Conference had the nets at 42 wins. It seems like you are expecting this team to win 53 games or more and make 3rd seed again. I don't know off hand what you predicted? But if you predicted 53-55 wins then i would be prepared to be disappointed. Right now Vegas has a total of 3 teams winning more than 53 games. Bucks, Clippers and Philly. A total of 7 teams winning over 50 games. Blazers are set at two different lines 46 1/2 and 47 1/2. Lets say as you have said many times. "Stotts is fine in Regular season". How many more wins are you honestly willing to give the Blazers over 47 wins? I understand they never give the Blazers as much respect as they should but are you really going as many as 9 games over? I would love to see it happen but doing it would just cement my case the Stotts is a way better coach than many give him credit for. If they win 50+ games he has beaten Vegas pretty much every season he has coached here.
Again This is my opinion and i'm going to stick with it. 50+ wins and a solid playoff showing will be a successful season in my book.

 

[kjironman1]

Wow, no kidding...

I can't quite make out what he yelled? Does anyone know?

 

[STOMP]

Front court defense is not our problem in case you haven't noticed...

I specifically noticed it was a problem when he was in. Open court half court, Tolliver just gets lost.

Rattle this simple thought around. He's a career 38% 3pnt shooter, which is better then Lillard. Yet even on a slew of bad teams he hasn't been able to carve out a significant role. Is it possible that his various Head Coaches have noticed the same problem I have?

STOMP

 

[BonesJones]

So you are going to pick the returning Champions with 4 returning All-Stars for your example? How about this year? Lets take that further. How about the Lakers last year or Pels? Maybe we should look at the Raptors? 50 wins has always and will always be the benchmark for a successful season. An NBA season is a marathon and there are many factors to making it a success. As the old saying goes "It why they play the games".
This Blazer team has changed drastically. Chemistry, Fit, Injuries, Contracts, Travel, the rest of the Western Conference are all issues that will have an impact. Just my opinion here but a 50+ win season will be very successful. It's why my season prediction was 47 and 6th seed. 6th seed last year had the Thunder at 49 wins. Eastern Conference had the nets at 42 wins. It seems like you are expecting this team to win 53 games or more and make 3rd seed again. I don't know off hand what you predicted? But if you predicted 53-55 wins then i would be prepared to be disappointed. Right now Vegas has a total of 3 teams winning more than 53 games. Bucks, Clippers and Philly. A total of 7 teams winning over 50 games. Blazers are set at two different lines 46 1/2 and 47 1/2. Lets say as you have said many times. "Stotts is fine in Regular season". How many more wins are you honestly willing to give the Blazers over 47 wins? I understand they never give the Blazers as much respect as they should but are you really going as many as 9 games over? I would love to see it happen but doing it would just cement my case the Stotts is a way better coach than many give him credit for. If they win 50+ games he has beaten Vegas pretty much every season he has coached here.
Again This is my opinion and i'm going to stick with it. 50+ wins and a solid playoff showing will be a successful season in my book.

I love how you're referencing Vegas as if its a valid measurement of how good the team is, depsite consistently underrating the roster.

You posted a lot for nothing, because I'm simply saying I'm not going to base a coach as doing a "good job" on if he wins 50 games with a roster with 50-win talent. Not that complicated.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I love how you're referencing Vegas as if its a valid measurement of how good the team is, depsite consistently underrating the roster.

You posted a lot for nothing, because I'm simply saying I'm not going to base a coach as doing a "good job" on if he wins 50 games with a roster with 50-win talent. Not that complicated.

Im actually trying to think if I agree they have 50 win talent, every year thats a moving goal post as to what “50-win talent” means. I think they have 50 win talent if Simons and Zach live up to expectations by the franchise, if not Im not sure. I think one of my biggest concerns roster wise this year is Simons, the franchise has built him up so much this summer that if he’s anything less than a star people will be disappointed, and he’s 20, with an extremely small sample size of experience, and they dont have much in terms of back up guard play... They need him to be that and its hard to know if he’s ready.

 

[BBert]

Im actually trying to think if I agree they have 50 win talent, every year thats a moving goal post as to what “50-win talent” means. I think they have 50 win talent if Simons and Zach live up to expectations by the franchise, if not Im not sure. I think one of my biggest concerns roster wise this year is Simons, the franchise has built him up so much this summer that if he’s anything less than a star people will be disappointed, and he’s 20, with an extremely small sample size of experience, and they dont have much in terms of back up guard play... They need him to be that and its hard to know if he’s ready.

On offense I think Simons will be fine and will improve throughout the season. His defense however consists mainly of chasing his man around the court. At 20 years old and having not attended college, he has clearly never had to guard NBA talent or offensive schemes. With his offensive talent, I doubt he's ever played with the mindset of being a lock down defender. Defense will be his mental challenge.

 

[Pinwheel1]

We beat them in the conference semi-finals. How did that happen? Obviously there was a solution (enough) that worked then. To me, it was just horrible shooting by our team and terrible perimeter defense. That has little to do with the center position. We won with Enes Kanter starting at center. Was he the difference? He can do "it" but Nurk and Hassan can't?

My concern has nothing to do specifically with Denver. It has to do with defending teams who have 3 pt shooting bigs. It has been a weak spot for years.

Relying on CJ to hit clutch shot after clutch shot like he did last year in the playoffs is not the solution I want to rely on every time.

 

[B-Roy]

If anyone wants something positive we can take away from this game: We actually outscored Denver by 32 points in the paint. That's crazy. We scored 54 points vs Denver's 22. They shot 62% on threes, even if every shot was wide open that's an anomaly. I think if both teams shoot anything near their normal percentages this is a going away win for the Blazers.

We averaged 48 PIP last year. Denver 52. Denver won the paint battle in our playoff series, so did the Warriors (by a significant margin).

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I appreciate Lillard acknowledging the team's and his mistakes.

 

[kjironman1]

I love how you're referencing Vegas as if its a valid measurement of how good the team is, depsite consistently underrating the roster.

You posted a lot for nothing, because I'm simply saying I'm not going to base a coach as doing a "good job" on if he wins 50 games with a roster with 50-win talent. Not that complicated.

If Vegas isn't a valid measurement then why does pretty much everyone consider them every year, summer after summer? The reason they underrate the Blazers is because of Stotts and Lillard if you read and listen to most analysts. I agree it's not complicated at all.
Like i said i don't know your prediction but if you are 8-9 games over Vegas you will be disappointed to say the least.

 

[kjironman1]

Im actually trying to think if I agree they have 50 win talent, every year thats a moving goal post as to what “50-win talent” means. I think they have 50 win talent if Simons and Zach live up to expectations by the franchise, if not Im not sure. I think one of my biggest concerns roster wise this year is Simons, the franchise has built him up so much this summer that if he’s anything less than a star people will be disappointed, and he’s 20, with an extremely small sample size of experience, and they dont have much in terms of back up guard play... They need him to be that and its hard to know if he’s ready.

I'm kind of torn on this also. Not sure they have 50 win talent without Nurk and with Whiteside as a replacement. I also wonder what effect Gasol will have? Baze didn't hit shots in preseason or against Denver the way i had hoped. Stotts seems to be searching for a good rotation? I wonder how long that lasts? I also wonder if Whiteside will sulk if he gets pulled and the same goes for Hood?
The West is tough. Winning 50 might be very hard to accomplish no matter how good they are playing.
Point was above. 50 wins has always been considered successful. 50+ would be great in my book. If you are expecting well over 50 with this roster and against the teams in the west you might be a bit delusional about exactly how much talent this team has?

 

[Reep]

If our guards made 40% of their average numbers this is a win. It was a bummer to lose, but given how poorly we shot and all the times the ball cleaned the rim, this felt like one of those games that just wasn't going to go our way no matter what. If we were on we would have been them by 20.

 

[Natebishop3]

I heard a crazy stat on the radio yesterday and I can't remember the specifics but it was something like 40% of the Nuggets made shots were without a blazer within 4 feet of them. Did anyone else hear this? I'm not sure where to even look that up.

 

[wizenheimer]

I heard a crazy stat on the radio yesterday and I can't remember the specifics but it was something like 40% of the Nuggets made shots were without a blazer within 4 feet of them. Did anyone else hear this? I'm not sure where to even look that up.

I don't know what the percentage was but it sure seemed like the Nuggets had a ton of open shots, especially the three's.

now, with a bunch of new faces, I suppose it's expected that the defensive rotations were bollixed. But there's also been a lot of legitimate concern about a downgrade in perimeter defense. Portland is replacing the perimeter defense of Aminu-Harkless-Turner-Hood-Curry-Layman with Zach-Hood-Bazemore-Simons-Hezonja-Tolliver. Just look at the starting forwards: Zach is a good interior defender but he's not the perimeter defender Aminu is. And Harkless is a better defender than Hood. Bazemore may be a better defender than Turner, but that's about the only exchange where Portland doesn't appear to have downgraded the perimeter defense

 

[tlongII]

It's too early to judge our defense. Defense takes communication and that takes time with all the new guys we have. I think they'll figure it out.

 

[B-Roy]

I don't know what the percentage was but it sure seemed like the Nuggets had a ton of open shots, especially the three's.

now, with a bunch of new faces, I suppose it's expected that the defensive rotations were bollixed. But there's also been a lot of legitimate concern about a downgrade in perimeter defense. Portland is replacing the perimeter defense of Aminu-Harkless-Turner-Hood-Curry-Layman with Zach-Hood-Bazemore-Simons-Hezonja-Tolliver. Just look at the starting forwards: Zach is a good interior defender but he's not the perimeter defender Aminu is. And Harkless is a better defender than Hood. Bazemore may be a better defender than Turner, but that's about the only exchange where Portland doesn't appear to have downgraded the perimeter defense

Probably from second spectrum. Someone on realGM said that the Nuggets got 16 open threes and hit 10 of them for 60%. Portland got 8 and hit one of them for 12.5%. Now I don't know if these stats are exactly accurate but from the eye test they seem about right. If both teams shot 50% on their open 3s this would have been a Blazer win.

Still, it doesn't say much about HOW they got those shots. The Nuggets definitely moved the ball better and generated more of those open looks.

 

[BonesJones]

If Vegas isn't a valid measurement then why does pretty much everyone consider them every year, summer after summer? The reason they underrate the Blazers is because of Stotts and Lillard if you read and listen to most analysts. I agree it's not complicated at all.
Like i said i don't know your prediction but if you are 8-9 games over Vegas you will be disappointed to say the least.

Vegas consistently underrates us by a number of games. This is common knowledge. Yet you're acting like they're accurate. They're not.

Why the hell should I read and listen to analysts that barely watch the team? Makes no sense. You're gauge for expectations is based of Vegas and analysts and they've been consistently wrong.

This is a 50-win roster. Period.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm kind of torn on this also. Not sure they have 50 win talent without Nurk and with Whiteside as a replacement. I also wonder what effect Gasol will have? Baze didn't hit shots in preseason or against Denver the way i had hoped. Stotts seems to be searching for a good rotation? I wonder how long that lasts? I also wonder if Whiteside will sulk if he gets pulled and the same goes for Hood?
The West is tough. Winning 50 might be very hard to accomplish no matter how good they are playing.
Point was above. 50 wins has always been considered successful. 50+ would be great in my book. If you are expecting well over 50 with this roster and against the teams in the west you might be a bit delusional about exactly how much talent this team has?

Who is expecting "well over 50 (wins)"? You complained about the roster all season last year. So they finally get rid of the guys you can't stand and replace them with the types of players you said you wanted, and now the roster is worse than last years? It's like you want to bash the roster so that you can say Stotts is doing a great job if they do well.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Who is expecting "well over 50 (wins)"? You complained about the roster all season last year. So they finally get rid of the guys you can't stand and replace them with the types of players you said you wanted, and now the roster is worse than last years? It's like you want to bash the roster so that you can say Stotts is doing a great job if they do well.

I'm definitely glad to not see Moe + Aminu as our starting forwards, and ET + ML gone doesn't hurt either. I was mostly good with the moves this off-season Tolliver was probably the most questionable one IMO. I guess for me I'm just mainly worried about their young talent Zach and Simons, and also the west has so many talented teams.

 

[kjironman1]

Who is expecting "well over 50 (wins)"? You complained about the roster all season last year. So they finally get rid of the guys you can't stand and replace them with the types of players you said you wanted, and now the roster is worse than last years? It's like you want to bash the roster so that you can say Stotts is doing a great job if they do well.

Here we go. Whatever.
Enjoy the game tonight.