Game Thread GAME# 14: SPURS @ BLAZERS - JANUARY 18, 2021 - MONDAY, 12:00, NBCSNW

[julius]

Hard to get excited about a team that routinely has to climb out of 15+ point deficits.

You can do it on an off game or two... but in the playoffs you'll get run out of the building by better teams in a series.

We've seen that it doesn't even have to be better teams. Just 5 warm bodies seem to be able to outplay and out shoot the Blazers now.

 

[Tince]

So, suddenly Popovich became a crap coach? He has done more with less talent than any other coach in the league.

Your point is silly.

I don't think he was saying he's a crappy coach, just pointing out that with only 1 all-star on average over the last 6 years, he's had as much success as we have.

 

[Tince]

We've seen that it doesn't even have to be better teams. Just 5 warm bodies seem to be able to outplay and out shoot the Blazers now.

Don't you think a fully healthy Spurs roster is better than Portland minus CJ, Nurk, and Collins?

 

[julius]

So, suddenly Popovich became a crap coach? He has done more with less talent than any other coach in the league.

Your point is silly.

He might have gotten more out of less talented players, but it doesn't hurt when you have Duncan, Robinson, Leonard, Parker and Ginobili to help those players look good.

Who has he made better because of his coaching?

I mean, for fucks sake, Stotts was able to get bums like Harkless, Aminu, Crabbe and to a less degree, Conngington and Laymen pass for players in the NBA.

 

[maxiep]

I don't think he was saying he's a crappy coach, just pointing out that with only 1 all-star on average over the last 6 years, he's had as much success as we have.

I would argue that we have significantly more talent and depth than the Spurs. Switch coaches, and we blow them out.

 

[julius]

Don't you think a fully healthy Spurs roster is better than Portland minus CJ, Nurk, and Collins?

not 20 points better, no.

 

[James lamphear]

They aren't coming off much ball movement.

Check where we are/were in assists per game.

I'll teach you the game but I will request funds. Venmo works best.

We never have ball movement or player movement. If you notice when we do screens it's like walk through instead full speed. It's has caught up with them the way they played. I predict this team is a 500 ball club but they might not even get that.

 

[Natebishop3]

He has done more with less talent than any other coach in the league.

WHAT?!?!?!!?

Explain this to me. When has he had "less talent" exactly?

He won his first title with fucking David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

He won his next few titles with Tony Parker, Manu, and Duncan.

He couldn't, however, win with Kawhi and LMA, and his team has looked VERY mediocre with LMA and DeRozan.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I didn't make up the data nor did I come to the conclusion. I was originally surprised myself, but the facts are facts. Well, I guess there are people who say the data is rigged when it doesn't match their desired outcome.

If you have a large data set that backs up your theory, please share it with us, I have an open mind.

You made a claim without showing any of your work and it's MY responsibility to prove otherwise?

Okay, Tucker Carlson. Lol

 

[Sheldon Shape]

We never have ball movement or player movement. If you notice when we do screens it's like walk through instead full speed. It's has caught up with them the way they played. I predict this team is a 500 ball club but they might not even get that.

According to some here, ball movement and coaching is irrelevant.

They must be thinking of another sport.

 

[maxiep]

not 20 points better, no.

When you include the head coach, yes I do.

 

[hoopsjock]

Trying again

 

[julius]

When you include the head coach, yes I do.

so the Jazz must be really really good, since they destroyed the Spurs by 21 points.

 

[maxiep]

WHAT?!?!?!!?

Explain this to me. When has he had "less talent" exactly?

He won his first title with fucking David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

He won his next few titles with Tony Parker, Manu, and Duncan.

He couldn't, however, win with Kawhi and LMA, and his team has looked VERY mediocre with LMA and DeRozan.

You mentioned his stars. He MADE Parker, Manu and Kawhi. He has made more crap players look good or mediocre than any other coach in history.

Of course, you seem to be forwarding the argument that Popovich is just an okay coach. Good luck with that.

 

[Natebishop3]

You mentioned his stars. He MADE Parker, Manu and Kawhi.

I think their mothers would disagree with that point.

Popovich had arguably the best power forward of all time on his team. He was the #1 overall pick. Pop didn't make Robinson or Duncan. It's really easy to look like a genius when you have arguably the best player ever at his position. Just ask Phil Jackson.

 

[Tince]

I would argue that we have significantly more talent and depth than the Spurs. Switch coaches, and we blow them out.

Certainly disagree. I have no interest in trying to say Pop is a bad coach though, he's great. Like most, he needs elite talent to be a title contending coach.

 

[maxiep]

I think their mothers would disagree with that point.

Popovich had arguably the best power forward of all time on his team. He was the #1 overall pick. Pop didn't make Robinson or Duncan. It's really easy to look like a genius when you have arguably the best player ever at his position. Just ask Phil Jackson.

Did I mention Duncan or Robinson? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Popovich may have helped Duncan reach those heights?

Of course, you keep thinking Pop is lucky. I think that argument has real legs--keep making it.

 

[Tince]

You mentioned his stars. He MADE Parker, Manu and Kawhi. He has made more crap players look good or mediocre than any other coach in history.

Of course, you seem to be forwarding the argument that Popovich is just an okay coach. Good luck with that.

Kawhi seems to be doing just fine w/out Pop.

 

[Natebishop3]

Certainly disagree. I have no interest in trying to say Pop is a bad coach though, he's great. Like most, he needs elite talent to be a title contending coach.

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but the shine comes off real quick when he doesn't have a generational talent on his team anymore.

 

[Tince]

According to some here, ball movement and coaching is irrelevant.

They must be thinking of another sport.

Until there is data to prove otherwise, wouldn't it be silly to say anything else?

 

[maxiep]

Kawhi seems to be doing just fine w/out Pop.

You. Miss. My. Point.

What if Kawhi would have been drafted by the Kings? What would his habits, his understanding of the game, his fundamentals, etc., be? There's a reason he was drafted in the middle of the first round.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Until there is data to prove otherwise, wouldn't it be silly to say anything else?

Nobody in their right mind thinks less ball movement = more success.

Nobody.

 

[Natebishop3]

You. Miss. My. Point.

What if Kawhi would have been drafted by the Kings? What would his habits, his understanding of the game, his fundamentals, etc., be? There's a reason he was drafted in the middle of the first round.

And yet..... Kawhi couldn't wait to get out of there. Why?

 

[Tince]

You made a claim without showing any of your work and it's MY responsibility to prove otherwise?

Okay, Tucker Carlson. Lol

I've made multiple posts showing the data, but I will be happy to provide it again.

http://thebrooklyngame.com/nba-correlate-offensive-efficiency-winning/

• Assist ratio. This is a surprising one, but the ratio between points created by assists and points actually had a minimally negative correlation (-6.8) to offensive rating. It seems to run counter to basketball wisdom that ball movement makes an offense good, but three of the top eight offenses ranked in the bottom 10 of the percentage of their points created by an assist, and three of the worst seven offenses ranked among the best.
  
  More than anything else, a team needs scorers; it doesn’t matter what offense you run if you don’t have players that can finish the play. If you pass the ball around in a well-run offense, you get an open look a la the Spurs. If you throw it around until someone takes a bad shot, you get the Bucks.

This is from basketball-datascience.com:

"Assists and assists percentage alone are not good indicators of win-loss records because there are many other factors that can contribute to wins other than good movement." Citing assists as a measure of good/bad coaching is a lazy argument and the data backs that up.

Again, I'm open to you showing me otherwise, I would actually prefer your narrative be true. Please share your data now.

 

[James lamphear]

According to some here, ball movement and coaching is irrelevant.

They must be thinking of another sport.

On that I will hold my comments to myself.

 

[Tince]

Nobody in their right mind thinks less ball movement = more success.

Nobody.

I have seen no data to back up that less is better either. It's something that is meaningless in both directions.

 

[wizenheimer]

Don't you think a fully healthy Spurs roster is better than Portland minus CJ, Nurk, and Collins?

I know it wasn't your point, but we heard that excuse all last season. Now we're hearing it again. I'm thinking we're past the point where the injury excuse has become a real injury problem. Nurkic's health is not dependable. It's looking like the same is true for Collins. If the optimal Blazer team is basically depending on players that can't depended on, then that team doesn't exist

 

[James lamphear]

I think their mothers would disagree with that point.

Popovich had arguably the best power forward of all time on his team. He was the #1 overall pick. Pop didn't make Robinson or Duncan. It's really easy to look like a genius when you have arguably the best player ever at his position. Just ask Phil Jackson.

Them two players was great but one thing POP he also held them with accountable of there play. I watch on the side line jumping in Duncan ass or any other players he has. He inspect them to play as a team not individual players not like Stotts teams. This make Pop a top coach.

 

[Tince]

I know it wasn't your point, but we heard that excuse all last season. Now we're hearing it again. I'm thinking we're past the point when the injury excuse has become a real injury problem. Nurkic's health is not dependable. It's looking like the same is true for Collins. If the optimal Blazer teams is basically depending on players that can't depended on, then that team doesn't exist

All valid points, I agree. I wish we could either:

1) Build such a good roster we could handle injuries to multiple starters
2) Build a roster with players who have proven to be healthy.

 

[Tince]

Them two players was great but one thing POP he also held them with accountable of there play. I watch on the side line jumping in Duncan ass or any other players he has. He inspect them to play as a team not individual players not like Stotts teams. This make Pop a top coach.

Why do you think this hardass mentally hasn't worked as of late? Why did Kawhi leave? Why isn't Aldridge any better for the Spurs than he was for Portland? Why hasn't he had more success in the last 6 years than Dame in the playoffs? Why hasn't DaRozen quality of play changed drastically in the positive favor since coming from Toronto?