Game Thread GAME# 15: BLAZERS @ PELICANS - NOVEMBER 19, 2019 - TUESDAY, 5:00 PM, NBATV & NBCSNW

[Blazers1977]

Aminu and Harkless being here right now wouldn't change a damn thing. We might be a bit better defensively but we'd have even less assists than we do now and we're already last in the league. The talent you have out on the floor matters. But, so does the game plan. We legitimately don't have one on either end of the floor.

“A bit better defensively”

lol. Aminu is leading the league in defensive efficiency.

 

[wizenheimer]

If you wanna say the transactions in the off season sucked, remember Lillard co-signed all of the transactions this off season. He didn’t demand that the team resign Aminu, Kanter, Mo, or Meyers when we could have done so, and the team would have listened to him. You won’t here anyone here criticizing Lillard for not going to bat for his former teammates, though.

Did Lillard really appreciate, for example, the defense Aminu brought to the team? Or, has his superstar life style thrown off his perception a bit? There has definitely been a shift in his attitude since he got his insanely big contract in the direction of cockiness. His music has changed and is noticeably less humble. He considers himself more of a celebrity now.

I remember Lillard saying “we got better” after many of the transactions had just occurred in the off-season. He didn’t really pay any respect to the departing players during this interview and he dismissed concerns about the talent the team lost with Aminu etc.

it’s not all on Olshey and Stotts. The whole team is responsible for the success of the team, and Lillard deserves some significant blame as the leader of our team for our current woes.

I say this in many threads, and I'll say it again:

I'm not going to pretend like I know what happens behind closed doors. What coaches and players (like Lillard) say to the media after a transaction should always be taken with a grain of salt. I think the likilhood of Dame coming out to the media and saying he thought any trade made us worse is zero, for obvious reasons. I don't know if Dame considers himself more of a celebrity or not, but again, that doesn't matter to me. I feel Dame is a better player this year than he was last year, so him being a constant from a WCF team, I don't think whatever change he has made could be the main reason for the win % to fall that far.

We do agree that all parties involved share some responsibility for the succes of the team; not all posters on here seem to feel that way. In terms of roster make-up, Olshey is responsible for that, as that is his job. There are only two people in the organization above him that I suppose you could add in (McGowen & Jody Allen). If we had proof Dame said he wanted to trade Harkless/Meyers for Whiteside, then I guess we could try and hold him accountable, but I do not have those facts. I do recall Dame saying something along the lines that if he had it his way, the team would never change, but again, I don't know if that is truly how he feels or not.

I think your take on Dame is way off. It wasn't his idea to retool the team that just got to the WCF. If you think it was him, where is your proof? I think that if he weren't injured right now and if we were winning these games you wouldn't be bashing Dame. This is how it starts, fair weather fans turning on this team's best player and ambassador.

that's an interesting progression of posts

the first thing to remember is that Blazer1977 is a giant CJ honk who can't stand any criticism at all of CJ. Apparently, he's decided the best way to defend CJ is to consistently trash Dame and blame him for everything. It's crazy town

accordingly, Dame is now responsible for the roster construction; I guess because he toed the party line after all the changes. Which by the way he's done every time there has been a roster change. He'll tout the virtues and his affection for the players leaving, then express optimism for the players coming in. That Dame...what an ass

but obviously, in the CJ-centric mind of Blazer1977 that means that Dame was calling the shots for the team this summer. It was Dame's idea that trading Turner for Bazemore was going to work out great. Dame was on the phone to Miami and designed the Whiteside trade and brought it to the front office. It was Dame that identified Tolliver as the big get and got it done 3 days before the moratorium ended...hey Dame, what was the big rush? It was Dame that wanted Hezonja and when Olshey spent about 10 minutes telling everybody how "incredibly talented" Hezonja was, he was reading Dame's press release. And of course, it was Dame who went for Gasol less than 2 months after the 39 year old C had surgery for a stress fracture of the foot. For chrissakes Dame, didn't you learn a lesson from when you signed Ezeli? guess not

pretty soon we'll find out that Dame was the one who dislocated Zach's shoulder. He's a voodoo child

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

somebody has to guard Giannis

I think that is why we signed Melo.

 

[Blazers1977]

that's an interesting progression of posts

the first thing to remember is that Blazer1977 is a giant CJ honk who can't stand any criticism at all of CJ. Apparently, he's decided the best way to defend CJ is to consistently trash Dame and blame him for everything. It's crazy town

ad hominem.

Accordingly, Dame is responsible for the roster construction

Strawman.

never said Dame “constructed our roster,” I said he didn’t go to bat for his teammates from last year, and that if he had done so, Olshey would have kept more of last years roster. You can’t counter this obvious fact, so you’re resorting to insults and putting words in my mouth.

I never said dame should have gone to bat for his old teammates, but to act like he didn’t endorse the roster moves is absurd.

 

[Shaboid]

he didn’t go to bat for his teammates from last year, and that if he had done so, Olshey would have kept more of last years roster.

How do you know this?

 

[blazerkor]

you mean if we were winning then I wouldn’t be pointing out that dame is partly to blame for losing? Duh

the proof is common sense. The team asks Dame about every move and he has veto power - as do most stars of his caliber. There’s no chance that Olshey would have done these moves if Lillard protested.

I don't think Dame has any decision making power. I also don't think there are many, if any, situations in the league where a player has veto power or even gets a heads up on every move. I think Dame finds out from the front office once a deal is done and Dame is the type of player that then praises the new additions.

 

[Blazers1977]

How do you know this?

Do you honestly think the blazers would have traded/not-signed aminu if Dame told them not to?

 

[Blazers1977]

I don't think Dame has any decision making power. I also don't think there are many, if any, situations in the league where a player has veto power or even gets a heads up on every move. I think Dame finds out from the front office once a deal is done and Dame is the type of player that then praises the new additions.

It was just reported that Dame had to approve of whether Carmelo signed or not. Pretty sure he’d have veto power over more consequential decisions to.

 

[BBert]

He did this against Whiteside. Not exactly sure how he pulled that off?

Whiteside sucked from the opening tip. As did Melo.

 

[BBert]

I missed the game. Someone give me a run-down of why we lost. Or are the Pelicans that much better than we are?

Yes. Also crows, ravens, and red tailed hawks.

 

[wizenheimer]

Do you honestly think the blazers would have traded/not-signed aminu if Dame told them not to?

oh for fucksakes...will you just stop with the trolling already?

Dame didn't have any say in that decision. Either Hezonja or Tolliver is costing Portland around 4 million in salary and tax. Aminu would have cost 26-28 million more in salary and tax than either of those scrubs. This was a financial decision like so many were this summer. More punishment for the massive miscalculations of 2016

 

[BBert]

I wasn't against moving Aminu, Harkless, Turner, or Meyers. But the object is to get better, not go from conference finals to lottery in one season.

The buck stops with Neil Olshey.

 

[hoopsjock]

I wasn't against moving Aminu, Harkless, Turner, or Meyers. But the object is to get better, not go from conference finals to lottery in one season.

The buck stops with Neil Olshey.

Without Nurk though a guy like Whiteside was just a temporary filler until we could trade him, same with Bazemore. The opportunity to make trades and get better still exists.

 

[Shaboid]

Do you honestly think the blazers would have traded/not-signed aminu if Dame told them not to?

Burden of proof

I can do this too.

 

[wizenheimer]

Without Nurk though a guy like Whiteside was just a temporary filler until we could trade him, same with Bazemore. The opportunity to make trades and get better still exists.

sure...the opportunity might be there. I'd wonder if the will is there considering the financial constraints

The Blazers have 91M in guaranteed salary scheduled...for 7 players (Dame-CJ-Nurkic-Zach-Simons-Little-Trent)

for giggles let's assume the China thing hurts just a little and the tax line hangs around 130M. Let's also assume thhere is a wink-n-nod agreement with Hood to max his salary next season. So he opts out, Portland uses early-bird right and signs him to a deal with a starting salary of around 10M

so now, the Blazers have 101M for 8 players. About 30M, maybe less away from the tax.

so let's say the Blazers trade Whiteside and their 1st for Love. Whiteside is an expiring but Love has a 31M salary next season, so Portland is 1-2M over the tax line and they only have 9 players. Maybe they have included Hezonja in the Love trade. If not, he could opt in putting Portland 4M over the tax line with only 10 players. And might have even worse big man depth than this season.

worse then all that is it would make Portland a taxpayer for the 3rd straight season, meaning they'd be in repeater tax danger in the first year of Dame and CJ's new contracts. It may be that the expiring contracts of Whiteside and Bazemore have more value to Portland than anybody else. And all this would change if the China thing did drop BRI by a significant amount

And all of this might be happening after Portland's worst season in years. How much stomach would Jody Allen have for another big tax bill? My hunch is if Portland does make a trade it will probably be an exchange of expiring contracts. I just have a hard time imagining something like this over the next 3 years:

Dame - $31,626,953 $43,750,000 $47,250,000
CJ - $29,354,152 $30,864,198 $33,333,333
Love - $31,258,256 $31,258,256 $28,942,830

........92M......106M......110M......yeeeeesh

 

[tester551]

sure...the opportunity might be there. I'd wonder if the will is there considering the financial constraints

The Blazers have 91M in guaranteed salary scheduled...for 7 players (Dame-CJ-Nurkic-Zach-Simons-Little-Trent)

for giggles let's assume the China thing hurts just a little and the tax line hangs around 130M. Let's also assume thhere is a wink-n-nod agreement with Hood to max his salary next season. So he opts out, Portland uses early-bird right and signs him to a deal with a starting salary of around 10M

so now, the Blazers have 101M for 8 players. About 30M, maybe less away from the tax.

so let's say the Blazers trade Whiteside and their 1st for Love. Whiteside is an expiring but Love has a 31M salary next season, so Portland is 1-2M over the tax line and they only have 9 players. Maybe they have included Hezonja in the Love trade. If not, he could opt in putting Portland 4M over the tax line with only 10 players. And might have even worse big man depth than this season.

worse then all that is it would make Portland a taxpayer for the 3rd straight season, meaning they'd be in repeater tax danger in the first year of Dame and CJ's new contracts. It may be that the expiring contracts of Whiteside and Bazemore have more value to Portland than anybody else. And all this would change if the China thing did drop BRI by a significant amount

And all of this might be happening after Portland's worst season in years. How much stomach would Jody Allen have for another big tax bill? My hunch is if Portland does make a trade it will probably be an exchange of expiring contracts. I just have a hard time imagining something like this over the next 3 years:

Dame - $31,626,953 $43,750,000 $47,250,000
CJ - $29,354,152 $30,864,198 $33,333,333
Love - $31,258,256 $31,258,256 $28,942,830

........92M......106M......110M......yeeeeesh

Simple solution... Trade CJ for Love (or preferably Blake).

 

[Blazers1977]

oh for fucksakes...will you just stop with the trolling already?

Dame didn't have any say in that decision. Either Hezonja or Tolliver is costing Portland around 4 million in salary and tax. Aminu would have cost 26-28 million more in salary and tax than either of those scrubs. This was a financial decision like so many were this summer. More punishment for the massive miscalculations of 2016

It’s widely known that superstars approve of major trades the team makes. It is naive to think Dame couldn’t prevent Aminu from leaving. (Again, I’m not saying he should have. But if you’re gonna start the blame game and throw this season all on Olshey you should stop denying reality and admit Lillard co-signed Olshey’s ideas e.g. was very high on whiteside.)

also funny how you’re blaming salary cap issues when Dame has one of the biggest contracts in NBA history. Was he not capable of taking less money so his team would be better? Is this another one of those things that many athletes do that is somehow impossible for lillard?

 

[Blazers1977]

Burden of proof

I can do this too.

burden of proof is on you, genius.

 

[hoopsjock]

I should know better than to argue with lillard cultists. It’s widely known that superstars approve of major trades the team makes. You’re extremely naive if you think Dame couldn’t prevent Aminu from leaving.

How do you explain Ed Davis leaving then for dirt cheap? Dame was pissed, but I guess that was fake?

 

[Scalma]

God bless the ignore button.

 

[Blazers1977]

God bless the ignore button.

Aka the hive mind, ‘don’t trigger me with your opinion,’ button. HMU if you can respond to a single point I made and do something more than classless insulting.

Lillard is arguably my favorite player, but you guys carry his water like he’s a saint.

 

[Shaboid]

burden of proof is on you, genius.

Tu quoque

he didn’t go to bat for his teammates from last year, and that if he had done so, Olshey would have kept more of last years roster

 

[Blazers1977]

Tu quoque

(you don’t know what tu quoque means)

Here’s Lillard literally endorsing Whiteside as “the best shot blocker in the league” and talking Bazemore up. He also said “we got better. Change is good.” right after Aminu, Meyers and Harkless left.

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/...nd-trail-blazers-offseason-we-got-better.html

If you’re still denying Lillard endorsed the moves at this point you’re beyond reason.

 

[hoopsjock]

(you don’t know what tu quoque means)

sorry guys, I can see you aren’t capable of defending your opinions with any substantive arguments. I’ll stop bringing up facts about Lillard that trigger you. Carry on.

Except I dropped the mic with Ed Davis and you ignored that post.

 

[Shaboid]

(you don’t know what tu quoque means)

Here’s Lillard literally endorsing Whiteside as “the best shot blocker in the league” and talking Bazemore up. He also said “we got better. Change is good.” right after Aminu, Meyers and Harkless left.

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/...nd-trail-blazers-offseason-we-got-better.html

If you’re still denying Lillard endorsed the moves at this point you’re beyond reason.

Correlation/Causation

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

that's an interesting progression of posts

the first thing to remember is that Blazer1977 is a giant CJ honk who can't stand any criticism at all of CJ. Apparently, he's decided the best way to defend CJ is to consistently trash Dame and blame him for everything. It's crazy town

accordingly, Dame is now responsible for the roster construction; I guess because he toed the party line after all the changes. Which by the way he's done every time there has been a roster change. He'll tout the virtues and his affection for the players leaving, then express optimism for the players coming in. That Dame...what an ass

but obviously, in the CJ-centric mind of Blazer1977 that means that Dame was calling the shots for the team this summer. It was Dame's idea that trading Turner for Bazemore was going to work out great. Dame was on the phone to Miami and designed the Whiteside trade and brought it to the front office. It was Dame that identified Tolliver as the big get and got it done 3 days before the moratorium ended...hey Dame, what was the big rush? It was Dame that wanted Hezonja and when Olshey spent about 10 minutes telling everybody how "incredibly talented" Hezonja was, he was reading Dame's press release. And of course, it was Dame who went for Gasol less than 2 months after the 39 year old C had surgery for a stress fracture of the foot. For chrissakes Dame, didn't you learn a lesson from when you signed Ezeli? guess not

pretty soon we'll find out that Dame was the one who dislocated Zach's shoulder. He's a voodoo child

Thanks for posting that. I think a lot of us were thinking the same thing, but just didn't have the energy to think it through and write it.

 

[Blazers1977]

Correlation/Causation

I didn’t say Lillard caused the trades.

I said Lillard didn’t protest the trades. Then I sent you a link of Lillard explicitly endorsing the trades. You’re hopeless. If you carry Lillard’s water more maybe he will take a pay cut for the good of the team.

PS like half of you are on record here endorsing the trades too. But you wanna throw Olshey under the bus for making trades that all seemed logical at the time. Doesn’t get more absurd than this.

 

[Shaboid]

I didn’t say Lillard caused the trades.

I said Lillard didn’t protest the trades. Then I sent you a link of Lillard explicitly endorsing the trades. You’re hopeless.

I agree, you don't know what you said or are saying. I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out your fallacies. But yeah, I'm the one that doesn't understand words. Okay. IGNORED.

 

[Blazers1977]

I agree, you don't know what you said or are saying. I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out your fallacies. But yeah, I'm the one that doesn't understand words. Okay. IGNORED.

seems appropriate. Ignoring someone is as childish as your arguments.

 

[BonesJones]

seems appropriate. Ignoring someone is as childish as your arguments.

You know its bad when youre going against the ENTIRE forum, and then hypocritically blaming others and calling them childish for ignoring you.