Game Thread GAME# 2: SPURS @ BLAZERS - OCTOBER 20, 2018 - SATURDAY, 7:00 PM (PDT), NBCSNW

[BonesJones]

My point is Zach was pretty much awful on offense most of last year his percentages were all bad. This year he scores 6 points and 11 points and all of a sudden people are talking about him like hes an offensive savant, and I just think we should slow down and let things play out to see if his offense is coming around or not. I know his defense is good, and to some extent I understand the thought process behind the Ed Davis stuff. Just all this talk of his “offensive skillset” to me is like well lets play some more games before we determine what his skillset is, they havent even played a roadgame...

He was a rookie... A 2nd year jump is expected... you can't base this season off of last years.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

He was a rookie... A 2nd year jump is expected... you can't base this season off of last years.

Well some guys dont make it. Some guys make smaller jumps than others. Again its been two games, you cant base how he’ll play for the next 80 based on how he did in two games...

 

[hoopsjock]

My point is Zach was pretty much awful on offense most of last year his percentages were all bad. This year he scores 6 points and 11 points and all of a sudden people are talking about him like hes an offensive savant, and I just think we should slow down and let things play out to see if his offense is coming around or not. I know his defense is good, and to some extent I understand the thought process behind the Ed Davis stuff. Just all this talk of his “offensive skillset” to me is like well lets play some more games before we determine what his skillset is, they havent even played a roadgame...

But when people mention offensive skillset they aren't talking about percentages. Much like the Aminu discussion the percentages don't always tell the whole story. What can't Zach do on offense potentially? His form is good and his motion is such that it can be duplicated time and time again even when tired.

He's also showed some flashes of post moves, including a Dirk style one footer, and even the ability to put the ball on the floor and create. He's also able to hit mid range shots. Then add in his passing ability too.

The best part of all of that? Whatever he develops into on offense is all just a bonus anyway if he becomes a dominant defender.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

But when people mention offensive skillset they aren't talking about percentages. Much like the Aminu discussion the percentages don't always tell the whole story. What can't Zach do on offense potentially? His form is good and his motion is such that it can be duplicated time and time again even when tired.

He's also showed some flashes of post moves, including a Dirk style one footer, and even the ability to put the ball on the floor and create. He's also able to hit mid range shots. Then add in his passing ability too.

The best part of all of that? Whatever he develops into on offense is all just a bonus anyway if he becomes a dominant defender.

Well heres some food for thought, Do you think anyone has game planned for him yet? My guess would be no, on either end of the court he’s not even close to on the other teams radar.
Lots of guys have good shooting form, it really only matters if it goes in the basket.
We havent seen him dribble much or be forced too. I just think its premature to act like Zachs good or BAD. To me we know he’s got potential to be good and that on defense he’s been consistantly pretty good.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I dont really understand why its viewed as Im like anti Zach, because I want to see more games of him being consistantly good before I really judge how good he is or isnt.

I realize I hated the pick and was vocal about it, but its not like Im saying he sucks, and will be out of the league once his rookie contract is up. Im just saying I want to see the type of play he’s had for a longer stretch of time than the last two games.

 

[H.C.]

Well heres some food for thought, Do you think anyone has game planned for him yet? My guess would be no, on either end of the court he’s not even close to on the other teams radar.
Lots of guys have good shooting form, it really only matters if it goes in the basket.
We havent seen him dribble much or be forced too. I just think its premature to act like Zachs good or BAD. To me we know he’s got potential to be good and that on defense he’s been consistantly pretty good.

It's hard to gameplan for a bench player.
Unless that bench player is Williams, Gordon, Terry, Harden, Manu, etc.
Zach plays within himself and while he might not ever become a 20ppg scorer. He's easily Portland's third best big.(2nd if you don't consider Aminu a big)
I'd take him over a hustle player like Ed Davis all day.

 

[Orion Bailey]

How is Swanigan, in any way, a paint presence?

And I'm not sure he can even rebound at as high of a level as some people think he can.

Biggie shouldn't play though, that I'm sure of.

Bones, I never said he was a paint presence as in a factor. I'm simply saying if you are looking for someone to bang in the paint, I think Swanigan is the lesser of two evils over Jake. You are saying you would rather have Jake down low battling other C's in the paint over Swanigan? If Collins, Nurk and Meyers are all out of the game, who are you playing at C. Swanigan, or Layman?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

It's hard to gameplan for a bench player.
Unless that bench player is Williams, Gordon, Terry, Harden, Manu, etc.
Zach plays within himself and while he might not ever become a 20ppg scorer. He's easily Portland's third best big.(2nd if you don't consider Aminu a big)
I'd take him over a hustle player like Ed Davis all day.

I think he might be their best big if he continues the pace and keeps getting better. Its not like I think its impossible for him to get there, I just want to see it consistantly for a while.
I said earlier this summer I wouldnt mind him starting at PF next to Nurk, but with the small ball going on that may not work very well.

 

[hoopsjock]

Well heres some food for thought, Do you think anyone has game planned for him yet? My guess would be no, on either end of the court he’s not even close to on the other teams radar.
Lots of guys have good shooting form, it really only matters if it goes in the basket.
We havent seen him dribble much or be forced too. I just think its premature to act like Zachs good or BAD. To me we know he’s got potential to be good and that on defense he’s been consistantly pretty good.

All I care about with a guy like that is if he's making an impact on the game. So far that has been the case. Nothing he is doing is a fluke in my opinion because his skillset is the type that translates into being consistent every night. You can't really gameplan for a defensive big because the real impact is when players are afraid to attack the basket inside.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

All I care about with a guy like that is if he's making an impact on the game. So far that has been the case. Nothing he is doing is a fluke in my opinion because his skillset is the type that translates into being consistent every night. You can't really gameplan for a defensive big because the real impact is when players are afraid to attack the basket inside.

Well you can game plan for a defensive big, it’s why you see teams run several players up for screens until they get match ups they want. Houston does it a lot, where they try to get guys like Gobert out on the perimeter to free up the paint. The game plan is literally how can we get them out of the paint so we can attack the basket. Also with Zach, I could see teams attacking him in certain ways because he’s been foul prone.

I dont know, I said even last year I saw flashes of potential with him, and I still see it. I think with continual improvement he’ll eventually be better than Nurkic (especially because Nurkic apparently is just not going to go up strong...).

 

[hoopsjock]

Well you can game plan for a defensive big, it’s why you see teams run several players up for screens until they get match ups they want. Houston does it a lot, where they try to get guys like Gobert out on the perimeter to free up the paint. The game plan is literally how can we get them out of the paint so we can attack the basket. Also with Zach, I could see teams attacking him in certain ways because he’s been foul prone.

I dont know, I said even last year I saw flashes of potential with him, and I still see it. I think with continual improvement he’ll eventually be better than Nurkic (especially because Nurkic apparently is just not going to go up strong...).

The foul prone thing is a good point. Crafty veterans will try to get him and Nurk out of the game.

I will say that this is why I like Zach though. He's quick enough to guard the perimeter thus making it much more difficult to take him out of the paint. I mean he was guarding Kuzma a lot during the Laker game and still had 6 blocks.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The foul prone thing is a good point. Crafty veterans will try to get him and Nurk out of the game.

I will say that this is why I like Zach though. He's quick enough to guard the perimeter thus making it much more difficult to take him out of the paint. I mean he was guarding Kuzma a lot during the Laker game and still had 6 blocks.

I think part of the reason he got 6 blocks was the Lakers played extremely small and kept going into the paint because they cant really shoot. He’s going to be great against small balllike that. -Not trying to take anything away from the 6 blocks -.

Really the only question to me about Zach at this point is will his offense be good enough that he’s a starter level player (or better) or will his role be just a defensive specialist.

Again, I dont hate Zach. I just want to see more before I make much of a judgement on his offensive game. Yeah weve seen some great “flashes” on offense but in my mind he hasnt been consistant on that end of the floor.

 

[hoopsjock]

I think part of the reason he got 6 blocks was the Lakers played extremely small and kept going into the paint because they cant really shoot. He’s going to be great against small balllike that. -Not trying to take anything away from the 6 blocks -.

Really the only question to me about Zach at this point is will his offense be good enough that he’s a starter level player (or better) or will his role be just a defensive specialist.

Again, I dont hate Zach. I just want to see more before I make much of a judgement on his offensive game. Yeah weve seen some great “flashes” on offense but in my mind he hasnt been consistant on that end of the floor.

I'm probably interpreting it wrong but what is bad about being a defensive specialist? You keep posting like he can't be a starter if he's only good at defense.

You can tell he has more offensive ability than say a Joel Pyrzbilla who was a complete nothing on offense.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm probably interpreting it wrong but what is bad about being a defensive specialist? You keep posting like he can't be a starter if he's only good at defense.

You can tell he has more offensive ability than say a Joel Pyrzbilla who was a complete nothing on offense.

Well I guess nothing is neccessarily wrong with it, could he be a starter with just that? probably, but it does create complications as to who has to be on the floor with him. I think in today’s NBA playing two guys who dont do much on offense at the same can spell trouble, especially come playoff time.

Say Zach is basically the 7 foot version of Tony Allen in the paint, do you want to play him and Aminu together a ton? You might have really good defense but Dames job is gonna be really, really hard...

I guess I see it like this, his ceiling to me is about where his offensive game goes, he doesnt need to average 25 ppg to be really effective, but if he gave the Blazers an efficient 12-15 ppg, and combined that with his defense he’d be not just a starter but a really good starter. Which would also make the Blazers in my mind a legit contender, teams wouldnt be able to sell out 2-3 guys on which ever guard has the ball.

Theres definitely a space for specialists in the NBA, but part of the point of “positionless” basketball is that everyones kind of expected to do several things.

 

[TBpup]

HCP you have tommorows game thread ready yet?

Mods....do your duty!!

 

[kjironman1]

He's playing on a crappy, losing team in the minor league (Eastern Conference)

I just love that you called the eastern conference the minor league.

 

[James lamphear]

My point is Zach was pretty much awful on offense most of last year his percentages were all bad. This year he scores 6 points and 11 points and all of a sudden people are talking about him like hes an offensive savant, and I just think we should slow down and let things play out to see if his offense is coming around or not. I know his defense is good, and to some extent I understand the thought process behind the Ed Davis stuff. Just all this talk of his “offensive skillset” to me is like well lets play some more games before we determine what his skillset is, they havent even played a roadgame...

Right now he shooting at 77 percent so he making the shoots count when he gets the opportunity score. He not going to put up 10 shots up majority time in games.

 

[kjironman1]

Serious question, has a center/big ever won 6MOY?

Uncle Cliffy!

 

[jlprk]

This thread went wrong when it stopped talking about Ed Davis. I have decided to make him my favorite Blazer of all time. How can I get this thread back to Ed Davis?

 

[THE HCP]

This thread went wrong when it stopped talking about Ed Davis. I have decided to make him my favorite Blazer of all time. How can I get this thread back to Ed Davis?

“WHO?”

 

[Driew]

“WHO?”

No wonder you were so distraught when Ed left. Only guy that kind of recognized you on the team. I'm sorry my friend.

 

[jlprk]

This team lost its spirit when it threw Ed Davis into the garbage. Boob and Bones should be ashamed for what they are doing to his reputation.

 

[BonesJones]

This team lost its spirit when it threw Ed Davis into the garbage. Boob and Bones should be ashamed for what they are doing to his reputation.

Troll troll troll your boat, gently down the thread

 

[jlprk]

So you admit you're wrong.

 

[BonesJones]

Bones, I never said he was a paint presence as in a factor. I'm simply saying if you are looking for someone to bang in the paint, I think Swanigan is the lesser of two evils over Jake. You are saying you would rather have Jake down low battling other C's in the paint over Swanigan? If Collins, Nurk and Meyers are all out of the game, who are you playing at C. Swanigan, or Layman?

Maybe you just worded it weird.

Enter Swannigan . I think your forgetting about him. not that he is likely to have a major impact, but when you are talking about in the paint and rebounding presence, I would hope that Stotts goes to Biggie and keeps laymen slashing on the wing.

To answer your question: in that rare instance you play Animu at C over Swanigan.

 

[BonesJones]

So you admit you're wrong.

Merrily merrily merrily merrily

 

[jlprk]

Collins' nickname should be Bones.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Maybe you just worded it weird.

To answer your question: I'm that rare instance you play Animu at C over Swanigan.

Right but the thought was layman at center and i think swanigan or yes, aminu would serve better if we are down to them.

 

[BonesJones]

Collins' nickname should be Bones.

You need to view a Rhyme Dictionary FAMS.

 

[hoopsjock]

Well I guess nothing is neccessarily wrong with it, could he be a starter with just that? probably, but it does create complications as to who has to be on the floor with him. I think in today’s NBA playing two guys who dont do much on offense at the same can spell trouble, especially come playoff time.

Say Zach is basically the 7 foot version of Tony Allen in the paint, do you want to play him and Aminu together a ton? You might have really good defense but Dames job is gonna be really, really hard...

I guess I see it like this, his ceiling to me is about where his offensive game goes, he doesnt need to average 25 ppg to be really effective, but if he gave the Blazers an efficient 12-15 ppg, and combined that with his defense he’d be not just a starter but a really good starter. Which would also make the Blazers in my mind a legit contender, teams wouldnt be able to sell out 2-3 guys on which ever guard has the ball.

Theres definitely a space for specialists in the NBA, but part of the point of “positionless” basketball is that everyones kind of expected to do several things.

Tony Allen was a career 28.2% 3 point shooter and was also a wing not a big man. Marc Gasol won a DPOY and shot just 18% on 3 pointers his first 8 seasons (granted he didn't shoot much 12/66). He was also 24 years old when he came to the NBA with a filled out body. The fact that Collins shot 31% as a 19 year old rookie is a positive sign to me if he puts in the work to improve. I think the point I'm trying to make is that I think Collins is starting with a higher floor offensively than most defensive specialists. I'm not sure what his ceiling could be if he puts it all together but he's not some stiff who can only score on dunks.