Game Thread GAME# 71: MAVERICKS @ BLAZERS - MARCH 20, 2019 - WEDNESDAY, 7:00 PM, NBCSNW

[kjironman1]

You replied twice to posts Scalma and I had discussing Blake Griffin, that's how it got to Detroit.

As for Brogdon, please tell me what in my post was an assumption? You tend to do this kind of stuff every once in awhile where you call out a post but then don't really back up why that person is wrong.

Well lets start with these.....

I said "virtually impossible").

First off two years ago you never said "Virtually" but i have no way to prove that. And really that was all the response was about. I was giving you credit but you simply could not catch that someone might be being nice on this board.

4 year deal for $20 million per year.

Next. This is the very definition of an assumption.

let Aminu, Curry, and Hood walk. Keeping Layman would be tricky if he signed an offer sheet before we got Brogdon to sign. Kanter would be gone as well.

This is also so many assumptions i don't know where to start? Beings my original post was simply saying at lest you were saying there is a way.

So it would require somehow dumping Turner, Harkless, and Leonard for nothing in return too. Or trading CJ and Turner for nothing.

At this point your post has dropped about 5 or 6 different assumptions but here is the funny part. You have Aminu, Curry, Hood, Possibly Layman, Kanter, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard off the team to acquire Brogdon. A total of $55-56 Million on the current payroll. Even i can count that. And of course I AM just a fan.

Brogdon will be a restricted free agent but I'll play along

This is the part that really puzzles me. What are you playing along on? Nobody anywhere disagreed with you? Certainly not me. Even my original post was " I think he will get paid". Meaning The Bucks will keep him.

Please don't give me a drawn out response because this is already tiring and not entertaining at all. You asked for what i feel are assumptions and i gave you an answer just to be polite. I did it because i do believe if you are going to make the statement then back it up or at least explain the reason i said "So many Assumptions".
Take care Hoops. No stress my friend.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Sure it's possible. But how many times have you actually called a trade or a move a team makes before it's common knowledge? When you make 20 or 30 different possibilities and say "That's one of the scenarios i was talking about" after Woj breaks the story then it kind of loses it's luster. Look everyone was sure Davis was going to LA. Didn't happen YET! Will it happen? Sure maybe. Could it be somewhere else? Sure. But to say i called that if he signs with Boston would be a little weak at this point. Unless you go on record saying that is what will happen and there ain't no other option. Seriously. Would Detroit be in the mix for Davis? Could they be?

Im not really sure what you’re trying to say...

 

[kjironman1]

What? You are confusing knowledge of the cap and directions of franchises with being a journalist who breaks stories. I've known you for a long time, when have I ever tried to give myself props for calling a trade like that? I was one of the people who thought what the Lakers were offering was crap and I wouldn't have taken it either.

Take the Brogdon thing for example, as I laid out it is almost impossible for the Blazers to acquire him this summer. That doesn't mean that the Blazers don't want him or that they couldn't pursue him at the deadline next year or that he ends up with another team. I'm not trying to brag about being right about it, but that is pretty much a fact not an assumption. I also don't think it's speculation that the #1 team in the East wouldn't want to give away one of their best players for a bunch of crappy players on expiring contracts and draft picks so it's weird to just dismiss that opinion.

Not at all. I just used it as an example. Don't take it literally.

 

[kjironman1]

Im not really sure what you’re trying to say...

Well you have to go back about 20 freaking posts and 16 different threads so i can understand that.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Well you have to go back about 20 freaking posts and 16 different threads so i can understand that.

Ive read this thread, and most threads, just seems confusing. Maybe Im just tired.

 

[kjironman1]

Ive read this thread, and most threads, just seems confusing. Maybe Im just tired.

Seriously. It gets way tiring. I don't even know where to go with it at this point. Like three times i've said i don't even disagree with the entire notion hoops has come up with. Brogdon would be a great get but it would be very very unlikely to be able to even think about getting him.

 

[hoopsjock]

Ive read this thread, and most threads, just seems confusing. Maybe Im just tired.

You're not tired, KJ occasionally likes to argue and then not back up his points.

 

[kjironman1]

You're not tired, KJ occasionally likes to argue and then not back up his points.

Alright bro. Whatever. I'm gonna back up the point that i agreed with your very point from the beginning other than you are a Detroit Piston insider which i didn't know. Sorry. I'll be better next time.

 

[hoopsjock]

Well lets start with these.....

First off two years ago you never said "Virtually" but i have no way to prove that. And really that was all the response was about. I was giving you credit but you simply could not catch that someone might be being nice on this board.

I can't just let you do that and then not respond.

Two years ago I absolutely said virtually. We even got into an argument over what the word virtually meant, lol.

Next. This is the very definition of an assumption.

This is the part that really puzzles me. What are you playing along on? Nobody anywhere disagreed with you? Certainly not me. Even my original post was " I think he will get paid". Meaning The Bucks will keep him.

Well if you put it that way. No player that would be a good fit would be realistic so why even discuss it? It's why i don't look into it very much.

I guess my point is we really don't know who is "Realistic" or "Not Realistic". We are fans. We watch games and try to be entertained.

I guess I don't understand making comments like this when we do know that Brogdon is unrealistic. He's a restricted free agent so the Bucks can match and we have no cap room. Would it be an assumption to think that if we signed him to the MLE that the Bucks would simply match? No that isn't an assumption it's pretty much guaranteed. So we do know that Brogdon is NOT realistic this summer.

This is also so many assumptions i don't know where to start? Beings my original post was simply saying at lest you were saying there is a way.

At this point your post has dropped about 5 or 6 different assumptions but here is the funny part. You have Aminu, Curry, Hood, Possibly Layman, Kanter, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard off the team to acquire Brogdon. A total of $55-56 Million on the current payroll. Even i can count that. And of course I AM just a fan.

You are showing a complete lack of knowledge of the cap and trying to argue with someone who you know understands it pretty well. The Blazers have $126 million in guaranteed contracts next year. That number doesn't include Curry, Hood, Aminu, Layman, and Kanter. The cap is expected to be around $109 million. That means we'd have to get under $109 million not only the amount of whatever we offered Brogdon, but also minus all the cap holds for our draft pick and each roster spot under 12 players that we'd have at that point. In my example if Brogdon signed for $20 million we'd have to get down to at the very least $89 million and I estimated the holds at that point if we got that low to be about $3 million (which is probably lower than it would be, but Layman doesn't have a huge cap hold). 126-89-3=40. So yes I was 100% correct that it would take dumping an additional $40 million after releasing those free agents to get enough cap space to maybe even have a chance to meet with Brogdon to possibly sign him and hope that the Bucks wouldn't match.

 

[hoopsjock]

Alright bro. Whatever. I'm gonna back up the point that i agreed with your very point from the beginning other than you are a Detroit Piston insider which i didn't know. Sorry. I'll be better next time.

This is the post I'm referring to KJ.

I guess my point is we really don't know who is "Realistic" or "Not Realistic". We are fans. We watch games and try to be entertained.

 

[kjironman1]

I can't just let you do that and then not respond.

I know you can't. That is one of my points when i say. This place is about entertainment.
You have to understand at some point i have never said you were wrong hoops. You do understand that i said. BROGDON IS PROBABLY GONNA GET PAID. Try.... Just Try to understand that nobody anywhere is arguing with you.

Calm down. Take a deep breath and try to enjoy a game tomorrow. It's against Detroit. So i assume you are excited about watching.

 

[kjironman1]

This is the post I'm referring to KJ.

Sure. I figured you were a fan also. I didn't know you had a inside connection to an NBA team. Like i said i will not make that assumption again.

 

[hoopsjock]

Sure. I figured you were a fan also. I didn't know you had a inside connection to an NBA team. Like i said i will not make that assumption again.

See you can't just acknowledge that posts like that can't just be said without backing up how in this case it would be realistic.

This is bullshit KJ.

 

[hoopsjock]

I know you can't. That is one of my points when i say. This place is about entertainment.
You have to understand at some point i have never said you were wrong hoops. You do understand that i said. BROGDON IS PROBABLY GONNA GET PAID. Try.... Just Try to understand that nobody anywhere is arguing with you.

Calm down. Take a deep breath and try to enjoy a game tomorrow. It's against Detroit. So i assume you are excited about watching.

It's about entertainment but we can't make any comments because we're stupid fans that know nothing and just speculate. Got it.

 

[kjironman1]

See you can't just acknowledge that posts like that can't just be said without backing up how in this case it would be realistic.

This is bullshit KJ.

KJ, you don't know if I have some sort of connection to the Detroit front office or not so you can dismiss me as just a Blazer fan.....

That's your post plain as day hoops. Now what is it that is bullshit hoops? Is it that you are a Detroit Piston insider? Or is it that you cannot possibly know what is going on with the Pistons and their owner?
Now i'm tired of the rickety rack twisted communication games. You want to make a point make it. I give zero fucks. If you want to tell people you are some NBA insider and have knowledge others don't so be it. I give zero fucks again.
There are a number of things i am indeed an expert at. When i say i know you can sure as well bet i know. When i say i don't you can again sure as well know i don't. As far as what an NBA team will do when it comes to making personnel decisions i am definitely not an expert. I am a fan and i do not have inside knowledge. So all i can do is hope for the best.
Enjoy your evening. Glad the Ducks got a win. I did not expect it but again we hope for the best.

 

[hoopsjock]

That's your post plain as day hoops. Now what is it that is bullshit hoops? Is it that you are a Detroit Piston insider? Or is it that you cannot possibly know what is going on with the Pistons and their owner?
Now i'm tired of the rickety rack twisted communication games. You want to make a point make it. I give zero fucks. If you want to tell people you are some NBA insider and have knowledge others don't so be it. I give zero fucks again.
There are a number of things i am indeed an expert at. When i say i know you can sure as well bet i know. When i say i don't you can again sure as well know i don't. As far as what an NBA team will do when it comes to making personnel decisions i am definitely not an expert. I am a fan and i do not have inside knowledge. So all i can do is hope for the best.
Enjoy your evening. Glad the Ducks got a win. I did not expect it but again we hope for the best.

Why do you say you don't know how we got on Detroit but keep fucking bringing it back to Detroit? You're the one who said there is no way any of us could possibly know what is realistic and what isn't. So no, I'm not just gonna let you slide on that one. Until you show how getting Brogdon is realistic, that post is bullshit. Go ahead and keep repeating the same stupid fucking line about us being fans but it doesn't mean shit or turning this into a different argument about the Pistons. It's the same shit you've done before with myself and Bones about coach Stotts. You can't back up shit you say and can only resort to acting like it isn't a big deal that you fucking call someone out about not knowing all the information and just being a fan.

 

[tester551]

This is the part that really puzzles me. What are you playing along on? Nobody anywhere disagreed with you? Certainly not me. Even my original post was " I think he will get paid". Meaning The Bucks will keep him.

Getting paid does not mean Bucks will keep him. Those two statements are not synonymous.

Any number of teams could pay him. However, Portland will not be in a position to be one of those teams

 

[kjironman1]

Getting paid does not mean Bucks will keep him. Those two statements are not synonymous.

Any number of teams could pay him. However, Portland will not be in a position to be one of those teams

It does. At least the way i understand it. He is restricted so they can match. Whatever a team offers the Bucks will most likely cover. But no, i would not be the person to ask about how much that would be. Try @hoopsjock . He might come up with a better answer.

 

[kjironman1]

Why do you say you don't know how we got on Detroit but keep fucking bringing it back to Detroit? You're the one who said there is no way any of us could possibly know what is realistic and what isn't. So no, I'm not just gonna let you slide on that one. Until you show how getting Brogdon is realistic, that post is bullshit. Go ahead and keep repeating the same stupid fucking line about us being fans but it doesn't mean shit or turning this into a different argument about the Pistons. It's the same shit you've done before with myself and Bones about coach Stotts. You can't back up shit you say and can only resort to acting like it isn't a big deal that you fucking call someone out about not knowing all the information and just being a fan.

But you see i never said it was "realistic".
This is my original statement that you busted in on.

Brogdon is gonna get paid i think? I looked up Milwaukee's Payroll. They are not in a terrible position.

Then i went on and said i didn't think they would bring Mirotic back. Then i wondered weather they would be in the market for a player like Meyers?
Bones said he would not be realistic.
I said i guess we don't really know who is and who isn't? I still feel that.
Why do you have such a problem with that?

 

[tester551]

It does. At least the way i understand it. He is restricted so they can match. Whatever a team offers the Bucks will most likely cover. But no, i would not be the person to ask about how much that would be. Try @hoopsjock . He might come up with a better answer.

Yes, he is restricted and the Bucks can match any contract. But its a big assumption that the Bucks WILL match.

 

[kjironman1]

Yes, he is restricted and the Bucks can match any contract. But its a big assumption that the Bucks WILL match.

Fair enough. Still he is gonna get paid if they don't.

 

[hoopsjock]

But you see i never said it was "realistic".
This is my original statement that you busted in on.

Then i went on and said i didn't think they would bring Mirotic back. Then i wondered weather they would be in the market for a player like Meyers?
Bones said he would not be realistic.
I said i guess we don't really know who is and who isn't? I still feel that.
Why do you have such a problem with that?

Why do I have a problem with that?

Since your post is a direct response to Bones it is implied that you are questioning his stance about it not being realistic. Adding that we're all just fans (just like your argument that we aren't coaches) implies that Bones is just guessing. He isn't. His statement is well informed and while it isn't a 100% fact it is indeed a realistic opinion.

I go on to explain exactly why he is correct about Brogdon and you dismiss my whole post as "assumptions" and show your lack of knowledge to the cap situation. Why even make your original comment that we don't know what is realistic and what is unrealistic if you agreed that it was unrealistic? If you make a comment like that I expect you to be able to back up why we can't speculate that it is unrealistic. Why bring the professional statuses of posters into it?

 

[BonesJones]

Well if you put it that way. No player that would be a good fit would be realistic so why even discuss it? It's why i don't look into it very much.

We can have two conversations. Who could we realistically add, and what type of player we need.

Brogdon is the answer for the 2nd question. I don't know what that has to do with other players being realistic or whatever. He's a FA this summer, so that's why he's not realistic.

 

[kjironman1]

Why do I have a problem with that?

Since your post is a direct response to Bones it is implied that you are questioning his stance about it not being realistic. Adding that we're all just fans (just like your argument that we aren't coaches) implies that Bones is just guessing. He isn't. His statement is well informed and while it isn't a 100% fact it is indeed a realistic opinion.

I go on to explain exactly why he is correct about Brogdon and you dismiss my whole post as "assumptions" and show your lack of knowledge to the cap situation. Why even make your original comment that we don't know what is realistic and what is unrealistic if you agreed that it was unrealistic? If you make a comment like that I expect you to be able to back up why we can't speculate that it is unrealistic. Why bring the professional statuses of posters into it?

Well i pointed out the many assumptions so that is covered. Hope it is to your satisfaction.
As far as "We are all just fans"? I will formally rephrase that hopefully to your liking. "I am just a fan". You on the other hand as well as Bones might be better than the rest of us "Just Fans"
If you feel you need more than that i guess you can try another poster.

As for me? You will just have to accept the fact that i believe You and Bones are just fans and you do not have any more ability or knowledge than the rest of us "Just Fans" have. That is until you prove otherwise which i doubt will ever be the case.
The reason i have these beliefs is because i know someone who is not a "Just Fan". Matter of fact he is quite a bit more than just a fan. I have had many conversations with him. He has given me some fairly drastic insight into the Association. You see, I am now of the opinion that you and posters like you think you know and understand but you don't. As a matter of fact I was just like you at one time. I'm sorry if this crushes you in some way. It's not meant to. But basketball is an Entertainment industry. The game is a business and an vehicle that makes money. Money is the only thing that is driving this association. Because of that nothing is certain. The rules you understand do not always count. Championships do not count. Teams and cities do not count. People do not count. Assists for playgrounds is all a big ruse. I mean figure it out. 22 asts a game for 82 games is a little over 36K. They know this before the season ever starts. So Moda builds a small playground and goes all year with the feel good story. Do this for 30 teams in 30 cities and you have a wonderful look for the advertisers. That is only one example but there are many if you take off the blinders and look.
C'mon man. Are you really this gullible? Do you think i am?
Now i will continue to enjoy my Blazers the way i want to. I hope you do the same. Peace hoops. Take care.

 

[kjironman1]

We can have two conversations. Who could we realistically add, and what type of player we need.

Brogdon is the answer for the 2nd question. I don't know what that has to do with other players being realistic or whatever. He's a FA this summer, so that's why he's not realistic.

Sure.

 

[hoopsjock]

Well i pointed out the many assumptions so that is covered. Hope it is to your satisfaction.
As far as "We are all just fans"? I will formally rephrase that hopefully to your liking. "I am just a fan". You on the other hand as well as Bones might be better than the rest of us "Just Fans"
If you feel you need more than that i guess you can try another poster.

As for me? You will just have to accept the fact that i believe You and Bones are just fans and you do not have any more ability or knowledge than the rest of us "Just Fans" have. That is until you prove otherwise which i doubt will ever be the case.
The reason i have these beliefs is because i know someone who is not a "Just Fan". Matter of fact he is quite a bit more than just a fan. I have had many conversations with him. He has given me some fairly drastic insight into the Association. You see, I am now of the opinion that you and posters like you think you know and understand but you don't. As a matter of fact I was just like you at one time. I'm sorry if this crushes you in some way. It's not meant to. But basketball is an Entertainment industry. The game is a business and an vehicle that makes money. Money is the only thing that is driving this association. Because of that nothing is certain. The rules you understand do not always count. Championships do not count. Teams and cities do not count. People do not count. Assists for playgrounds is all a big ruse. I mean figure it out. 22 asts a game for 82 games is a little over 36K. They know this before the season ever starts. So Moda builds a small playground and goes all year with the feel good story. Do this for 30 teams in 30 cities and you have a wonderful look for the advertisers. That is only one example but there are many if you take off the blinders and look.
C'mon man. Are you really this gullible? Do you think i am?
Now i will continue to enjoy my Blazers the way i want to. I hope you do the same. Peace hoops. Take care.

Wow serious, what in the actual fuck are you talking about?

 

[hoopsjock]

Well i pointed out the many assumptions so that is covered. Hope it is to your satisfaction.
As far as "We are all just fans"? I will formally rephrase that hopefully to your liking. "I am just a fan". You on the other hand as well as Bones might be better than the rest of us "Just Fans"
If you feel you need more than that i guess you can try another poster.

As for me? You will just have to accept the fact that i believe You and Bones are just fans and you do not have any more ability or knowledge than the rest of us "Just Fans" have. That is until you prove otherwise which i doubt will ever be the case.
The reason i have these beliefs is because i know someone who is not a "Just Fan". Matter of fact he is quite a bit more than just a fan. I have had many conversations with him. He has given me some fairly drastic insight into the Association. You see, I am now of the opinion that you and posters like you think you know and understand but you don't. As a matter of fact I was just like you at one time. I'm sorry if this crushes you in some way. It's not meant to. But basketball is an Entertainment industry. The game is a business and an vehicle that makes money. Money is the only thing that is driving this association. Because of that nothing is certain. The rules you understand do not always count. Championships do not count. Teams and cities do not count. People do not count. Assists for playgrounds is all a big ruse. I mean figure it out. 22 asts a game for 82 games is a little over 36K. They know this before the season ever starts. So Moda builds a small playground and goes all year with the feel good story. Do this for 30 teams in 30 cities and you have a wonderful look for the advertisers. That is only one example but there are many if you take off the blinders and look.
C'mon man. Are you really this gullible? Do you think i am?
Now i will continue to enjoy my Blazers the way i want to. I hope you do the same. Peace hoops. Take care.

What does the NBA being a business for profit have to do with Brogdon being an unrealistic option this summer?

 

[kjironman1]

Wow serious, what in the actual fuck are you talking about?

If you can't read it then i don't know what to tell you.
I rephrased a statement. Hopefully that will suffice. I am just a fan vs We are just fans.

 

[BonesJones]

Okay. I guess i'll just assume you have a connection to the Detroit Pistons and we will leave it at that. Honestly i'm not really sure how this got on Blake Griffin because i personally don't think he would fit here anyway. But I AM just a fan so what do i know? Originally this was about CJ and finding a player that might work in his stead. @BonesJones brought up Brogdon and i really like that idea but what i posted was i think he is gonna get paid. I think you agreed with that? But again I AM just a fan so what do i know? This is exactly why i don't even post here in the off season. The conversation never stays on topic and the results of the conversation never yield anything "Entertaining". From now on i will assume you have ties to the Detroit Pistons and you are completely in tune with that organization. So that would mean you probably are not allowed to be privy to what is going on with the Blazers as that would be like corporate espionage or something. Pretty sure Olshey doesn't want the Pistons knowing all his info. Pretty safe to assume Woj isn't in your back pocket either right?
Seriously though just keep on doing what you do. It's fun to read sometimes.

Kjironman is a fan of @hoopsjock !!!

You're argument was we don't know if he's realistic or not, because we're fans. HoopsJock then went through about 10 different logistical obstacles, and it'd be virtually impossible to clear them all. He was using the Pistons as an example of being able to be informed as a fan. It's all connected.

And you're saying the conversation isn't staying on topic but now you're talking about why you don't post in the off-season, how he doesn't have Woj in his back pocket, corporate espionage... all because he used an example relevant to the conversation that was being had.

I love Brogdon, and wish we could add him... but it's not possible due to the number of factors HJ listed. I don't see where the disagreement is... How is it possible to add Brogdon? I'm not even sure you're arguing that...?

 

[kjironman1]

What does the NBA being a business for profit have to do with Brogdon being an unrealistic option this summer?

So now you want to change back to me never saying he was realistic in the first place? Or do you want to go back to we are just fans and don't really know?