GAME THREAD: BULLS @ BLAZERS - 11/22/13, FRIDAY, 7 PM, CSNNW (1 Viewer)

[magnifier661]

In sorry but Taj is a damn good player. I don't care what advanced stats you try and toss my way. I would love to have him on this club!

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not telling you that you are wrong. I just disagree that Taj is very good, let alone worth $7.5 mil. Chicago didn't have a choice with the Toxic contract of $15 mil in the 3rd year. I believe it had everything to do with Deng, Boozer, Rose, and Noah, and their contracts, not with Gibson.

What makes you say "Their record with him on the team is best in the NBA, or close to it [because off Taj Gibson]"? THAT is a bold statement. Yikes. There were 7 Bulls that averaged more points per game last season, and 5.3 rebounds was tied for 4th on the team. As a bench player, it's fair to say a significant portion of his minutes were against bench players.

When you've got a great center in Noah, I think the redundancy at PF is more important. Portland is in the same boat with a Lopez, and Freeland/TReb. Even a team like Houston, who has the luxury of 2 legit centers, is looking for suitors for Asik, because the redundancy at center is less important than being able play small ball. There just isn't a lot of time on the court for both Howard and Asik, and 2 centers on the court just isn't a great line-up for any significant stretch on the court.

41-41, 62-20, 50-16, 45-37 since he joined the team. Feel free to find a team with a better record over that time frame. He is good enough to contribute to the team's W/L.

The Bulls are already paying the LT. Paying for Asik's one year $15M was an excuse to not sign him. The $5M cap hit to the Bulls for 2 seasons was way cheaper than paying Taj.

I think Asik was a fine backup C, but is very one dimensional. Taj has an offensive game beyond scoring on the offensive rebounds not fumbled OB (Asik).

 

[magnifier661]

I'm not telling you that you are wrong. I just disagree that Taj is very good, let alone worth $7.5 mil. Chicago didn't have a choice with the Toxic contract of $15 mil in the 3rd year. I believe it had everything to do with Deng, Boozer, Rose, and Noah, and their contracts, not with Gibson.

What makes you say "Their record with him on the team is best in the NBA, or close to it [because off Taj Gibson]"? THAT is a bold statement. Yikes. There were 7 Bulls that averaged more points per game last season, and 5.3 rebounds was tied for 4th on the team. As a bench player, it's fair to say a significant portion of his minutes were against bench players.

When you've got a great center in Noah, I think the redundancy at PF is more important. Portland is in the same boat with a Lopez, and Freeland/TReb. Even a team like Houston, who has the luxury of 2 legit centers, is looking for suitors for Asik, because the redundancy at center is less important than being able play small ball. There just isn't a lot of time on the court for both Howard and Asik, and 2 centers on the court just isn't a great line-up for any significant stretch on the court.

But Noah actually can play PF too. I've seen him do it. Having Aldridge, T. Rob, Lopez, and Noah would be sick!

 

[Denny Crane]

But Noah actually can play PF too. I've seen him do it. Having Aldridge, T. Rob, Lopez, and Noah would be sick!

Noah guarded LMA last night. Boozer guarded Lopez.

 

[magnifier661]

Noah guarded LMA last night. Boozer guarded Lopez.

No matter what anyone tried telling me. Noah is a fucking stud. He gets it and plays team ball. He passes well, rebounds, defends and isn't afraid of anyone. And yes, he guarded Aldridge as well many times. It would be a solid pick up

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

But Noah actually can play PF too. I've seen him do it. Having Aldridge, T. Rob, Lopez, and Noah would be sick!

Yes to Noah. No argument there, for exactly the reason that Noah can play PF and is a solid passer. Asik could have played and stayed in Chi, but the issue was the other giant contracts the Bulls had already (Boozer, Deng, Rose, Noah).

 

[magnifier661]

Yes to Noah. No argument there, for exactly the reason that Noah can play PF and is a solid passer. Asik could have played and stayed in Chi, but the issue was the other giant contracts the Bulls had already (Boozer, Deng, Rose, Noah).

They are keeping Rose. If they trade us Noah, it cuts into that. Only Deng and Boozer are left. I think Deng has a lot of value. A team like Golden State would trade for him or maybe even Boozer.

 

[magnifier661]

If Chicago is going full rebuild, I can see a three team trade involving Portland, Golden State and Chicago.

Portland trades: t. Rob or freeland, Claver, Barton, and Leonard.
They receive: Noah and parts from Golden state to make it work.

GoldenState trades: Barnes, Lee and parts
They receive: Deng, Barton and boozer

Chicago trades: boozer, deng and Noah
Chicago receives: Lee, Barnes, Leonard, claver and T. Rob or Freeland.

Chicago goes rebuild with a shit ton of youth and contract cuts. Golden state gets a low post player and defense upgrades. Portland gets Noah

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Noah guarded LMA last night. Boozer guarded Lopez.

Boozer can't defend. Lopez is the least of any threat to score. Yet Lopez dominated on the glass. Career high in rebounding (16). Noah can play center and PF, Asik cannot play PF. Asik clearly works better for Chi than Houston, the money was the deal breaker for Chi. The Bull were thinking long term for those 4 players, and you are talking about the short term. The fit is the issue in Houston, not the money. Two different reasons for why Asik is the odd man out.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, and I'm not trashing your opinions. Attributing Chicago's record to Taj Gibson is a HUGE stretch. HUGE. "The east coast teams stink" is a far more compelling argument, although it parallels in vagueness. I was asking for support for your opinion out of interest, not to argue or change your opinion. Chicago's record is hardly support that would lend credence to Taj Gibson being anything more than an average, at best, 1st or 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench. If you want to disregard the actually statistics I provided, that's OK. They aren't exactly definitive or a comprehensive as to Gibson as a player, but nevertheless do provide support for my opinion. If you don't have more support, that's OK too. I was just asking why you believed what you do.

 

[BBert]

Technically Noah could also play PF. That is a nice 3 man rotation. There is always a risk factor when you trade 3-1 if the one guy you are trading for gets hurt. But I would roll the dice with that.

That was my thought. Noah could play both positions. That's a trade that would make us better. Even without seeing CJ in a single game, I might prefer to trade Williams instead, once CJ comes back.

 

[jlprk]

What's this? The Bulls are blowing up their team?

Wait a minute, is this from one of Denny's sources?

 

[Strenuus]

If Chicago is going full rebuild, I can see a three team trade involving Portland, Golden State and Chicago.

Portland trades: t. Rob or freeland, Claver, Barton, and Leonard.
They receive: Noah and parts from Golden state to make it work.

GoldenState trades: Barnes, Lee and parts
They receive: Deng, Barton and boozer

Chicago trades: boozer, deng and Noah
Chicago receives: Lee, Barnes, Leonard, claver and T. Rob or Freeland.

Chicago goes rebuild with a shit ton of youth and contract cuts. Golden state gets a low post player and defense upgrades. Portland gets Noah

I think GS would balk at that a bit. They do like Lee there a lot. And Deng and Boozer are nice, but Barnes is going to be real good, IMO, for that team.

 

[Strenuus]

What's this? The Bulls are blowing up their team?

Wait a minute, is this from one of Denny's sources?

Have you looked at the Bulls board in the last 12 hours. It's nothing but :MARIS61: over there. If Rose is out for any significant time, they pretty much have to tank.

 

[magnifier661]

What's this? The Bulls are blowing up their team?

Wait a minute, is this from one of Denny's sources?

Depends on the results of Rose's MRI

 

[Pinwheel1]

They are keeping Rose. If they trade us Noah, it cuts into that. Only Deng and Boozer are left. I think Deng has a lot of value. A team like Golden State would trade for him or maybe even Boozer.

Deng is a good player but he makes 14 million and is a free agent after this year. Not sure how Chicago can benefit from trading him. They won't get much. They are better off re-signing him for much less. Or just letting him go.

 

[magnifier661]

Deng is a good player but he makes 14 million and is a free agent after this year. Not sure how Chicago can benefit from trading him. They won't get much. They are better off re-signing him for much less. Or just letting him go.

Only to tank is the reason. And just as you pointed out, he's a damn good player and would not stand to tank. They would be in mediocre. They need a top 5 this summer. Again, only if Rose is out for a long time...

 

[jlprk]

Have you looked at the Bulls board in the last 12 hours. It's nothing but :MARIS61: over there. If Rose is out for any significant time, they pretty much have to tank.

No. I'll check Denny's board. Are other Bulls sites in agreement?

http://sportstwo.com/forums/96-Chicago-Bulls?

 

[Boise Blazer]

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
Per sources, Derrick Rose tore his right meniscus and will need surgery.

 

[magnifier661]

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
Per sources, Derrick Rose tore his right meniscus and will need surgery.

Fuck. Sucks to be a Chicago fan right now

 

[Boise Blazer]

David Aldridge retweeted
19s
chicagobulls's avatar
Chicago Bulls @ChicagoBulls
Derrick Rose's MRI confirms medial meniscus tear to his right knee, which will require surgery: bit.ly/19RGWFy

 

[Strenuus]

OH SHIT! Fuckin A. Get better Rose.

Career Altering?

 

[magnifier661]

OH SHIT! Fuckin A. Get better Rose.

Career Altering?

No it's not that bad. It may fuck with his psyche though

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Pencil in 2 teams in the east with winning records this season?

 

[Strenuus]

No it's not that bad. It may fuck with his psyche though

Now having two bad knees, though... yeesh. Poor Chi town.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

3rd quarter Bull @ Blazers starting on comcast 37 in 10 min or so. Currently halftime.

 

[jlprk]

I was searching Bulls news and hit this twitter just as it posted the news 18 minutes ago. Good site.

https://mobile.twitter.com/chicagobullsbot

 

[jlprk]

That site says that Westbrook had the same, a torn meniscus, yet is already back playing. So Rose isn't done yet.

 

[magnifier661]

That site says that Westbrook had the same, a torn meniscus, yet is already back playing. So Rose isn't done yet.

For this season most likely. Westbrook was still out a few games. That's about 5 months.

 

[Denny Crane]

Boozer can't defend. Lopez is the least of any threat to score. Yet Lopez dominated on the glass. Career high in rebounding (16). Noah can play center and PF, Asik cannot play PF. Asik clearly works better for Chi than Houston, the money was the deal breaker for Chi. The Bull were thinking long term for those 4 players, and you are talking about the short term. The fit is the issue in Houston, not the money. Two different reasons for why Asik is the odd man out.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, and I'm not trashing your opinions. Attributing Chicago's record to Taj Gibson is a HUGE stretch. HUGE. "The east coast teams stink" is a far more compelling argument, although it parallels in vagueness. I was asking for support for your opinion out of interest, not to argue or change your opinion. Chicago's record is hardly support that would lend credence to Taj Gibson being anything more than an average, at best, 1st or 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench. If you want to disregard the actually statistics I provided, that's OK. They aren't exactly definitive or a comprehensive as to Gibson as a player, but nevertheless do provide support for my opinion. If you don't have more support, that's OK too. I was just asking why you believed what you do.

I haven't given my opinion.

Since you insist...

Taj is a top 3 backup PF. When you try to find 3 better, you'll see for yourself.

I don't think he'd be a great starter, but he wouldn't hurt the team.

Boozer? He rode the pine almost the whole second half. I don't know what was up with that. And sure, Noah is going to guard the better of the PF and C - that's just common sense.

Congrats to Lopez for grabbing all those boards against Nazr Mohammed. I think Nazr is 80 years old.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

I haven't given my opinion.

Since you insist...

Taj is a top 3 backup PF. When you try to find 3 better, you'll see for yourself.

I don't think he'd be a great starter, but he wouldn't hurt the team.

Boozer? He rode the pine almost the whole second half. I don't know what was up with that. And sure, Noah is going to guard the better of the PF and C - that's just common sense.

Congrats to Lopez for grabbing all those boards against Nazr Mohammed. I think Nazr is 80 years old.

Idk where you get these generalizations about Taj, but thank you for trying. Taj couldn't even post up Wes Matthews. He's 49th in PER, 47th in Value Added, and tied for 46th in Estimated Wins Added (which favors bigs who rebound and block shots)... for power forwards. And since this season is a small sample size, last season Taj was 47th in PER, 40th in VA, and tied for 39th in EWA... again for power forwards. He was also 26th for power forwards in TO ratio, 43rd in rebounding rate, 43rd in assist ratio. You can fudge who you call a center or a PF, but he's definitely below average, unless we're splitting hairs over bench guys. He's significantly over paid and his attitude is way above his pay grade.

Carl Laundry - paid less
Chris Anderson - paid a LOT less
Marreese Speights - paid a LOT less
Luis Scola - paid a LOT less

There's 4, just for good measure.

Slighting Lopez? That's a new one. Career High Rebounds, speaks for its self, but I'll just reiterate: Lopez 16 Noah 2