GAME THREAD: NUGGETS @ BLAZERS - JANURARY 23, 2014, THURSDAY, 7:30 PM (PST), TNT

[THE HCP]

What a great dunk that was! I haven't read any of this thread. Can't wait for the bi-polar posts!

Just wanted to let everybody know that when the TNT crew was done tearing down we were all leaving and this was the scene. 11:40 PM and Dame is there signing autos and taking pics for EVERY last fan! This is flat out a quality guy! Proud he's a Blazer!

Off to read the madness!

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

 

[PapaG]

Yes. It's an easy question. I can post your quote that you think inside scoring is important for a playoff team, but now you seem oblivious and/or argumentative whenever I (or anyone else) tries to post that jumpshooting bigs with the efficiency of Bargnani tend not to help the offense as much as shots in the paint. Why the change?

Yeah, it was in the thread where you were peppering me with questions, and after I posted the answers that proved my point, you blew past them and asked another question, and another, until there were no more questions that I hadn't proved.

Which part is the LOL?

The LOL is mentioning Bargnani and comparing him to Aldridge. It's obvious you've looked to bash LMA since your make-believer "LMA is never going to re-sign here" bullshit, which was hilarious at the time. I thought you may have actually learned from those idiotic posts from back then, but instead, you're MIXUM at this point, yet you're a moderator, and you're more boring than MIXUM was at the time you helped ban him.

 

[PapaG]

Wes has that in him. That was the most amazing revelation to me tonight.

 

[BrianFromWA]

The LOL is mentioning Bargnani and comparing him to Aldridge. It's obvious you've looked to bash LMA since your make-believer "LMA is never going to re-sign here" bullshit, which was hilarious at the time. I thought you may have actually learned from those idiotic posts from back then, but instead, you're MIXUM at this point, yet you're a moderator, and you're more boring than MIXUM was at the time you helped ban him.

Every time LMA hoists a jumper, he gets the same amount of points as every time Andrea Bargnani hoists a jumper. Fact.

And no, I've been "bashing" LMA for his shooting for the last 3 years (do you really want me to bring up the threads?) and, aside from a stretch of about 3 weeks from the time it was confirmed to me that he told mgmt he wasn't resigning here to the time we traded for Robinson and Lopez, I haven't advocated for any LMA trade. And I respected the positions of those who had varying opinions (off the top I can think of discussions with at least Draco and Blazerboy, and I'm sure there were others), even if I disagreed. AFAIK, i didn't ban anyone for any varying opinion. Please stop with that.

Your attacks are getting tiresome, PapaG. Please stop with them and talk basketball.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Could someone explain to me how a jump stop isn't traveling?

It establishes a pivot without committing to either foot. You can take an additional step afterward.

Lillard's 3 point shot is off, going back to the last few games

0-5 vs OKC 0-4 tonight

Who knew this was a thing?

1, 2, 3 not it… that’s kind of cool for her.

suwoop is offline
Banned

It’s not a great game thread till someone gets banned! LoL

● 44 pts 13 reb 5 ast 2 blk… scored the last 15 Blazer points… M V P. Just awesome. 14-17 from the free throw line, and hit them all when it mattered most.

LMA 7-14 on jumpers, 8-15 in the paint. 12-15 FT.

So, LA’s lay-up might as well be a jump shot. This is not news.

● Wes has put the “not a good finisher at the rim” behind him. And he has become an animal posting up as well. Lawson and Nate were no match down low and Portland did a great job of getting that ball to him on the miss-match. Wes finally got a decent dunk off that side inbounds play. That was sweet.

● Batum still struggling with his shot, but made a huge impact on the game: 7 boards 9 ast 2 stl… and he pushed the ball up on the break 3-4 times to get easy fast break points. Portland with 16 of those, and Denver with only 9.

● Hickson was awesome. (crickets) Still can’t believe Portland let him go for Rolo (8 offensive boards). JJ was abused on defense, abused on the glass, two travels and another pass to no one, 5 fouls with 7 boards. Didn’t he have 20 something vs GS? So, we were reminded RoLo is better than Hickson, and Portland is better than GS tonight.

"I'm the best power forward in the game. When you try me with a sorry forward like Hickson, that's the result you gonna get. Don't you ever talk about me!" - Aldridge

"Who was talking about you?" - Craig Sager

"Hickson! Don't you open yo mouth about the best, or I'm gonna shut it for you real quick. Rip city!" - Aldridge

LOL Classic!


[video=youtube;4wce6l5hQaw]

That image of Hickson's face SlyPokerDog posted was hilarious. lol

 

[PapaG]

Every time LMA hoists a jumper, he gets the same amount of points as every time Andrea Bargnani hoists a jumper. Fact.

And no, I've been "bashing" LMA for his shooting for the last 3 years (do you really want me to bring up the threads?) and, aside from a stretch of about 3 weeks from the time it was confirmed to me that he told mgmt he wasn't resigning here to the time we traded for Robinson and Lopez, I haven't advocated for any LMA trade. And I respected the positions of those who had varying opinions (off the top I can think of discussions with at least Draco and Blazerboy, and I'm sure there were others), even if I disagreed. AFAIK, i didn't ban anyone for any varying opinion. Please stop with that.

Your attacks are getting tiresome, PapaG. Please stop with them and talk basketball.

[video=youtube;d9nlzNcujFs]

 

[PapaG]

Every time LMA hoists a jumper, he gets the same amount of points as every time Andrea Bargnani hoists a jumper. Fact.

And no, I've been "bashing" LMA for his shooting for the last 3 years (do you really want me to bring up the threads?) and, aside from a stretch of about 3 weeks from the time it was confirmed to me that he told mgmt he wasn't resigning here to the time we traded for Robinson and Lopez, I haven't advocated for any LMA trade. And I respected the positions of those who had varying opinions (off the top I can think of discussions with at least Draco and Blazerboy, and I'm sure there were others), even if I disagreed. AFAIK, i didn't ban anyone for any varying opinion. Please stop with that.

Your attacks are getting tiresome, PapaG. Please stop with them and talk basketball.

Fucking bullshit. I do talk basketball. You talk LMA jumpshots, and continue to lessen your juice here in doing so.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Every time LMA hoists a jumper, he gets the same amount of points as every time Andrea Bargnani hoists a jumper. Fact.

Who taught you that shooting more will result in the same shooting percentage, or exactly proportional points per attempt? If everyone could score 44 points a game at the same efficiency as a guy that goes 1 for 2 every game, more players would score 44 points a game.

No one is attacking you. It's your argumentative opinions you assert as "FACTS" that don't prove anything, that people take issue with.

 

[BrianFromWA]

BF, I'm not saying that if he hypothetically shot less, his percentage would go up or if he hypothetically shot more, it would go down. (so to answer the question: no one taught me that)

I'm saying that the historical record and facts (stats, if you like that word better) are that every jumper LMA hoists this year has averaged out to be an eFG of 47%...the same as Andrea Bargnani, who's also almost 7' (if not actually) and who I'm assuming no one would label as an "elite" shooter. LMA doesn't have the efficiency of Dirk or Gasol or KG or Scola or Anderson or all the other bigs I brought up in the other thread. He has consistently shot about 42% on 10-23' jumpers his entire career. Up until the last couple of years, he was second fiddle to Roy and didn't enough that his FG%/eFG% hurt the team appreciably.

And you're kind of making my point on the "counting numbers v efficiency" argument. If LMA was scoring 40ppg on 50 shots, would you say that it's one of the greatest seasons in the last 30 years b/c of the ppg? Or would you say it's "Love-like" because it's putting up stats on a team that would struggle to have an offense as good as MIL (and therefore, a record as good)? Our offense if averaging 109+ points ever 100 possessions. LMA overall has an ORtg (points produced per 100 possessions) of 111, which is good, but actually less than his career highs (during the LaMonster years of 2010-11 and 2011-12) of 114. Because he takes so many of the inefficient jumpers (notice: I'm not saying "STOP SHOOTING J'S!", I'm saying "limit them to ones that are relatively open, and to about 1/2 the shots you take per game"), it brings down his personal efficiency, and brings down the team's, which correlates to wins.

As far as argumentative opinions, I try to back up almost everything I post, especially when they're against the grain.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

After a cold start for LA (1-7) he finished the game 13-15.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I just want to say I love Wesley's game; to think that an undrafted guy has reached the point where you almost have to think about featuring him.
On a related note, best coaching decision of the game: limiting Mo Williams to 19 minutes.

 

[Buffalo Blazer]

Every time LMA hoists a jumper, he gets the same amount of points as every time Andrea Bargnani hoists a jumper. Fact.

Dude, you have this weird obsession with this argument of yours. I feel bad for you that you can't just enjoy a 44 point performance by your team's MVP candidate.

 

[blue32]

I just want to say I love Wesley's game; to think that an undrafted guy has reached the point where you almost have to think about featuring him.
On a related note, best coaching decision of the game: limiting Mo Williams to 19 minutes.

Agreed, he was terrible. I wish they would play more CJ and Dame together. CJ has a NICE stroke.

 

[Boise Blazer]

NBA.com/Stats @nbastats
In the 2nd half last night, the Nuggets had 38pts & 13rebs. @aldridge_12 had 30 & 9, in 19:48 of 2nd-half action

 

[Natebishop3]

It establishes a pivot without committing to either foot. You can take an additional step afterward.

But that really makes no sense to me because if both feet leave the floor, and then you come back down without shooting or passing, that's an "up and down" and a traveling. At least that's what I was taught growing up.

 

[Kaydow]

I'm saying that the historical record and facts (stats, if you like that word better) are that every jumper LMA hoists this year has averaged out to be an eFG of 47%...the same as Andrea Bargnani, who's also almost 7' (if not actually) and who I'm assuming no one would label as an "elite" shooter. LMA doesn't have the efficiency of Dirk or Gasol or KG or Scola or Anderson or all the other bigs I brought up in the other thread. He has consistently shot about 42% on 10-23' jumpers his entire career. Up until the last couple of years, he was second fiddle to Roy and didn't enough that his FG%/eFG% hurt the team appreciably.

.

If LA were one dimensional like, say Bargnani, I'd see your point. But midrange jumpers are just part of his arsenal. He can run the floor, post up, face up, pick and roll, crash offensive boards . . . The midrange part of his game is part of what makes him so hard to guard right now. How many defenders can match up with him? Put a big guy on him, he'll take him to the perimeter, which also opens up the paint for teammates. Try to defend him with smaller defender, LA will crush him down on the blocks. It's not just about his shooting % on jumpers. It's how the defense has to adjust to his versatility. PDX has the best offense in the league, and it all starts with the L Train. The havoc he creates is what sets it all up. Stott's "system", all the 3s, the ball movement, etc. We wouldn't be talking about any of that if it weren't for the MVP Caliber first half of the season from LA.

 

[Natebishop3]

If LA were one dimensional like, say Bargnani, I'd see your point. But midrange jumpers are just part of his arsenal. He can run the floor, post up, face up, pick and roll, crash offensive boards . . . The midrange part of his game is part of what makes him so hard to guard right now. How many defenders can match up with him? Put a big guy on him, he'll take him to the perimeter, which also opens up the paint for teammates. Try to defend him with smaller defender, LA will crush him down on the blocks. It's not just about his shooting % on jumpers. It's how the defense has to adjust to his versatility. PDX has the best offense in the league, and it all starts with the L Train. The havoc he creates is what sets it all up. Stott's "system", all the 3s, the ball movement, etc. We wouldn't be talking about any of that if it weren't for the MVP Caliber first half of the season from LA.

But Brian has advocated for LA to step out and shoot threes rather than shooting those 17-20 footers. If you play the numbers, the three is a better shot and he has the range.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

NBA.com on Bargnani (injured) - John Schuhmann

"HANG TIME NEW JERSEY – Andrea Bargnani‘s injury – he’s out “indefinitely” with a torn ligament in his left elbow – may seem like more bad news for the New York Knicks. But it’s probably the opposite.

Now, I’m not wishing injury on anybody and I hope Bargnani has a full and timely recovery. But I am here to point out that the Knicks are better off without him. This injury may have just made Mike Woodson‘s job easier.
Simply, the Knicks have been better on both ends of the floor with Bargnani on the bench. They’ve been 2.3 points per 100 possessions better offensively and 2.2 points per 100 possessions better defensively.

The defensive issues are obvious. Get Bargnani moving and he might get turned around. He might switch when he’s supposed to stay home or stay home when he’s supposed to switch (a problem that seems to be contagious on these Knicks).

Offensively, Bargnani seems like a good player and he ranks 10th in mid-range field goal percentage (among those with at least 100 attempts). But overall, he’s a below average shooter, with an effective field goal percentage of just 47.2 percent, well below the league average of 49.7 percent. And his free throw rate (20 attempts per every 100 shots from the field) is poor for a big man.


He’s big, but plays small and doesn’t do it very well. The Knicks have a lot of problems, but you can start with the guy who’s a liability on both ends of the floor, is a square peg in a system that worked pretty well last season, and has somehow played the second-most minutes on the team.
With Bargnani and Carmelo Anthony on the floor together, the Knicks have been bad. With only Anthony on the floor, they’ve been good. And with only Bargnani on the floor (in a pretty small sample size), they’ve been awful.

Knicks efficiency with Anthony and/or Bargnani on the floor

On floor MIN OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg +/-
Anthony + Bargnani 1,061 102.5 106.4 -3.9 -44
Only Anthony 467 106.4 100.9 +5.6 +26
Only Bargnani 196 91.6 110.2 -18.7 -78

OffRtg = Points scored per 100 possessions
DefRtg = Points allowed per 100 possessions
NetRtg = Point differential per 100 possessions

It’s pretty simple. If Bargnani is on the floor with both Anthony and Tyson Chandler (or Kenyon Martin), it hurts the Knicks’ spacing offensively and requires either Anthony or Bargnani to guard the opposing small forward on defense. And if Bargnani and Anthony are out there without Chandler (or Martin), oh my gosh, are they terrible defensively."


Any questions? Class dismissed.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

But Brian has advocated for LA to step out and shoot threes rather than shooting those 17-20 footers. If you play the numbers, the three is a better shot and he has the range.

I'd advocate LA to shoot full court shots if it improved the team's offensive rating. I'd also advocate he stay on the offensive end of the court and stretch if it improved the Blazers' defense.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Dude, you have this weird obsession with this argument of yours. I feel bad for you that you can't just enjoy a 44 point performance by your team's MVP candidate.

If you read the game thread, I had a great time. And I'm having fun posting the information, or else I wouldn't be doing it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Any questions? Class dismissed.

Just one...I don't understand what the bolded parts were for. Shulman said the exact same thing I did ("Offensively, Bargnani seems like a good player and he ranks 10th in mid-range field goal percentage (among those with at least 100 attempts). But overall, he’s a below average shooter, with an effective field goal percentage of just 47.2 percent, well below the league average of 49.7 percent.") LMA ranks lower than LMA in mid-range field goal percentage, and has an effective FG% of 47.6%, well below the league average of 49.7%. What's the argument here? Or are you saying that class is over because you understand now that LMA shoots jumpers just like Bargnani?

I'm trying hard to keep up with what you're saying, but you aren't making sense. And the condescension only adds to your charm.

EDIT: In the interest of hopefully putting this argument to bed: LMA can hit the open jumper at a rate that causes defenders to have to guard him. But on average (whether it's because he's contested or doubled or just off that day or whatever), every time he shoots a jumper it is statistically worth as much as when "below-average shooter" Bargnani does. And no one would advocate (at least, Shulman didn't in your bolded parts above) that Bargnani should shoot more jumpers from that range with that "below-average" effectiveness/efficiency than anyone in the league. I'm fine with LMA taking half his shots as mid-range J's, and you can check the game threads to attempt to contradict me when I say that LMA can shoot an open J all day long. It's the contested, doubled, turnaround-fadeaways that he makes at about a 39% rate jumpers that I suggest that he should take into the paint, where he shoots an elite 60% and gets fouled a lot. Bargnani obviously can't do that, and I never said he could (or that he plays D). But the bolded fact remains.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Just one...I don't understand what the bolded parts were for. Shulman said the exact same thing I did ("Offensively, Bargnani seems like a good player and he ranks 10th in mid-range field goal percentage (among those with at least 100 attempts). But overall, he’s a below average shooter, with an effective field goal percentage of just 47.2 percent, well below the league average of 49.7 percent.") LMA ranks lower than LMA in mid-range field goal percentage, and has an effective FG% of 47.6%, well below the league average of 49.7%. What's the argument here? Or are you saying that class is over because you understand now that LMA shoots jumpers just like Bargnani?

Please post an article that says LA is a below average shooter, that he is not the MVP of even the Blazers, and that he is a chucker.

 

[PapaG]

Please post an article that says LA is a below average shooter, that he is not the MVP of even the Blazers, and that he is a chucker.

He needs to write it before he can post it. Give him an hour.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

But that really makes no sense to me because if both feet leave the floor, and then you come back down without shooting or passing, that's an "up and down" and a traveling. At least that's what I was taught growing up.

On a jump stop, you have just picked up your dribble or caught a pass. For post players who catch a pass, it creates a significant advantage because they can pivot either way. For coming off a dribble, it allows a player to maintain balance and avoid a travel caused by momentum on a drive. I agree it can be confusing in the NBA, because guys will take a step (or more) after picking up their dribble and before a jump stop, in which case it should be ruled a travel if they take a step after the jump stop. If you don't take a step after picking up your dribble and go right into a jump stop, you are allowed to take another step. Traveling in the NBA could be called on almost every play down the court, so it stands to reason why observers are perplexed by the inconsistency.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

He needs to write it before he can post it. Give him an hour.

Yup. And with that, I will leave him to his last word (x 4000).

 

[riverman]

I'm not sure what font to use for sarcasm, but anyone who wants to see LA slam dunking and shooting freethrows all night must really miss the 90's...that's all they used to do! I am thrilled to see players in the NBA who can actually make a jump shot, it went missing for over a decade. Stotts is reviving the art of winning basketball games and I really love watching it happen. LaMarcus will have a long career and some of the highlight reel dunkers may be bagged in ice before their 10th season. After the night he had against Denver, bashing LaMarcus is just ridiculous. Comparing him to Bargniani is equally ridiculous. For those who want a slam dunk hero, Portland may not be the best choice for you.

 

[blue9]

It's not about highlights, it's about high percentage shots. Lay-ups and hook shots are just fine by me!

 

[riverman]

It's not about highlights, it's about high percentage shots. Lay-ups and hook shots are just fine by me!

Damian has been getting crushed trying to make layups without getting foul calls....that's low percentage and high risk in my book.

 

[PapaG]

It's not about highlights, it's about high percentage shots. Lay-ups and hook shots are just fine by me!

So you want a slow-down game in which the ball goes into the low-post on every possession. No thanks.