Game three Summer league game thread

[Orion Bailey]

My standpoint is, who cares? We all throw out comparisons. I thought he reminded me of Gordon Haywood and someone bitch slapped that opinion. It doesn't HAVE to be based on facts at all. It's one person saying that a player reminds them of another player. That is TOTALLY justifiable. You can think whatever you want MM. If you think he reminds you of Claver, you do you. He doesn't really remind me of Claver because I think Layman seems more athletic, but that's just my opinion.

Now if you had come out and said, "He IS Claver. That's his ceiling." Then I guess it would be something to argue about.

Thats it. thats what I was getting at. Layman seems way more athletic overall.

 

[Mediocre Man]

He reminds me a bit of a poor mans Chandler Parsons. Or could become that in a few years. I think he has much better ball handling skills than Claver had, and seems to have a much smoother stride when sprinting. I never thought of Claver to be a successful player on a run and gun team, but Layman seems like he will fit in just fine in something like that. Layman seems much more fluid with his body compared to Claver. Claver seemed awkward to me alot of the time.

Poor man's Parsons would be a low floor for him, IMO. Claver was a pretty smooth player, I always thought anyway? Had Claver ever been able to get the confidence to shoot beyond 3, he would have been a damn good role player

 

[Orion Bailey]

Poor man's Parsons would be a low floor for him, IMO. Claver was a pretty smooth player, I always thought anyway? Had Claver ever been able to get the confidence to shoot beyond 3, he would have been a damn good role player

See, I disagree. I remember maybe two games where I thought that he might fit in the NBA. The rest of the time, I thought he looked lost and slower than everyone else.
Im a pot head though so maybe my memory fails me?

 

[Mediocre Man]

My standpoint is, who cares? We all throw out comparisons. I thought he reminded me of Gordon Haywood and someone bitch slapped that opinion. It doesn't HAVE to be based on facts at all. It's one person saying that a player reminds them of another player. That is TOTALLY justifiable. You can think whatever you want MM. If you think he reminds you of Claver, you do you. He doesn't really remind me of Claver because I think Layman seems more athletic, but that's just my opinion.

Now if you had come out and said, "He IS Claver. That's his ceiling." Then I guess it would be something to argue about.

Exactly.

And say he doesn't, like you did, but don't give me because he has been a better shooter when he has made 2 of whatever it is. He was a damn good shooter in college, but who knows if that translates? Adam Morrison was a really good college shooter.

 

[Mediocre Man]

See, I disagree. I remember maybe two games where I thought that he might fit in the NBA. The rest of the time, I thought he looked lost and slower than everyone else.
Im a pot head though so maybe my memory fails me?

I have half a brain, so together we will be right

 

[Boob-No-More]

I just don't get why you don't see that after 3 summer league games he reminds of Claver? I'm not here saying he'll get better or get worse. After 3 games, his game is similar to what we say in Claver. Smart, always in the right place, making the right play, but not a great shooter other than at the basket.

And, I just don't get why you don't see why I think he looks like Claver with a jump shot, which is what I said in my original post. Yeah, it's only been three summer league games, but ignoring 4 years of consistent improvement at a major NCAA Division I program seems asinine. That's a very significant sample size. Claver didn't show that kind if consistent improvement in 7 years playing professionally in Europe - an equally significant sample size.

It's not like summer league exists in a vacuum and those things didn't happen. You don't just accidentally improve year, after year, after year, after year at any level. It takes work, dedication,confidence and a good shooting form. Layman's track record has shown he has all of those things. Too ignore that improvement seems like burying your head in the sand just so you can argue about Layman's shooting ability.

Neil saw something in this kid. I doubt if he would have bothered to trade into this draft to take him if he thought he was just another Victor Claver. After all, he let Claver walk and didn't even bother to try to re-sign him after his rookie contract. Why trade into the draft and waste a pick if that's all you're going to get?

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

And, I just don't get why you don't see why I think he looks like Claver with a jump shot, which is what I said in my original post. Yeah, it's only been three summer league games, but ignoring 4 years of consistent improvement at a major NCAA Division I program seems asinine. That's a very significant sample size. Claver didn't show that kind if consistent improvement in 7 years playing professionally in Europe - an equally significant sample size.

It's not like summer league exists in a vacuum and those things didn't happen. You don't just accidentally improve year, after year, after year, after year at any level. It takes work, dedication,confidence and a good shooting form. Layman's track record has shown he has all of those things. Too ignore that improvement seems like burying your head in the sand just so you can argue about Layman's shooting ability.

Neil saw something in this kid. I doubt if he would have bothered to trade into this draft to take him if he thought he was just another Victor Claver. After all, he let Claver walk and didn't even bother to try to re-sign him after his rookie contract. Why trade into the draft and waste a pick if that's all you're going to get?

BNM

Cause he's made 2 out of 15 or whatever, and hasn't shown a jump shot in his limited NBA experience. His other baskets have come at the rim. That's why.

Whether he becomes Victor Claver or not is not the issue. You seem to be all over the place when arguing. After 3 summer league games he is a smart heady player that seems to do the intangibles well. he has made 2 out of whatever shots from deep and everything else has pretty much been at the rim. Sounds like Claver's game, to me anyway

 

[Natebishop3]

Lame. ESPN doesn't have the box scores and NBA.com doesn't do the shot charts so I can't disprove your notion that he isn't hitting jump shots.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Lame. ESPN doesn't have the box scores and NBA.com doesn't do the shot charts so I can't disprove your notion that he isn't hitting jump shots.

You can go through the play-by-play. Yesterday's game:

• Jump shot: missed
• Running Dunk: made
• Hook Shot: made
• Turnaround fadeaway: made
• 3pt shot: missed
• 3pt shot: made
• 3pt shot: missed
• Jump shot: made
• 3pt shot: missed
• 3pt shot: missed

That's 2 made close shots, 2 made 2-point jump shots, 1 missed 2-point jump shot, 4 missed 3's, and 1 made 3.

There, I've done one game for you--you can do the other two. You're welcome.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Lame. ESPN doesn't have the box scores and NBA.com doesn't do the shot charts so I can't disprove your notion that he isn't hitting jump shots.

It's not hard really. He was 1-7 in game one and 0-5 from 3, which means he was 1-2, and I believe the one was a poster jam.
Game 2: 2-5 from the field and 1-3 from 3, meaning again, he went 1-2 from the field. Not sure where these shots were from
Game 3: 5-10 from the field, 1-5 from 3. Meaning 4-5 from inside the line. 1 of those was a dunk, 1 was a lay up at the rim, 1 was a 10 foot fade on the baseline and 1 was a deep 2

 

[Natebishop3]

It's not hard really. He was 1-7 in game one and 0-5 from 3, which means he was 1-2, and I believe the one was a poster jam.
Game 2: 2-5 from the field and 1-3 from 3, meaning again, he went 1-2 from the field. Not sure where these shots were from
Game 3: 5-10 from the field, 1-5 from 3. Meaning 4-5 from inside the line. 1 of those was a dunk, 1 was a lay up at the rim, 1 was a 10 foot fade on the baseline and 1 was a deep 2

He looked a lot better in game three though. Like he was finally settling down and feeling comfortable. Obviously the three point shooting is still off, but the rest of his game looked solid.

 

[Mediocre Man]

He looked a lot better in game three though. Like he was finally settling down and feeling comfortable. Obviously the three point shooting is still off, but the rest of his game looked solid.

Totally. Dare I say he looks like a steal. We will see

 

[Natebishop3]

Totally. Dare I say he looks like a steal. We will see

He seems pretty long and athletic, which is nice. Pat is built more like a linebacker.

 

[jlprk]

Why isn't he showing up on the 2013 stats?

Okay I found the info on RealGM. He played in one summer league. 2013

Game 1 (starter) - 5:29 minutes played, 0-1 shooting, zero points, 1 rebound, 2 fouls http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-13/Phoenix-at-Portland/127974

Game 2 DNP (injured I'm guessing) http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-14/LA-Lakers-at-Portland/127981

Game 3 (starter) - 38:09 minutes played, 3-8 shooting, 1-6 from three, 10 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 6 fouls http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-16/Chicago-at-Portland/127993

Game 4 (starter) - 29:50 minutes played, 2-12 shooting, 1-6 from three, 7 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, and 3 steals http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-17/Portland-at-Atlanta/128086

Game 5 (starter) - 21:47 minutes played, 1-3 shooting, 0-0 from three, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 5 fouls http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-18/Portland-at-Phoenix/128088

Game 6 DNP - http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/boxscore/2013-07-19/Portland-at-Minnesota/128102

When you compare the shooting of Claver to Layman, you're comparing 6 foot 11 to 6 foot 8. I know, both are listed at 6-9, but that's wrong. A guy 3 inches taller shouldn't be expected to be as good of a shooter.

The 2013 boxscores have disappeared, but remaining are the recap, play by play, and video highlights. Game 1 on July 13, 2013:
http://www.nba.com/games/20130713/PHXPOR/gameinfo.html

For the other 2013 games, go to this page and arrow right to the date you want.
http://www.nba.com/gameline/20130713/

Here is 2012
http://www.nba.com/summer-league/2012/teams/blazers/
http://www.nba.com/summer-league/2012/players/

and 2014
http://www.nba.com/gameline/20140709/

 

[jlprk]

I think he has much better ball handling skills than Claver had, and seems to have a much smoother stride when sprinting. I never thought of Claver to be a successful player on a run and gun team, but Layman seems like he will fit in just fine in something like that. Layman seems much more fluid with his body compared to Claver. Claver seemed awkward to me alot of the time.

Layman seems way more athletic overall.

Claver was a pretty smooth player, I always thought anyway? Had Claver ever been able to get the confidence to shoot beyond 3, he would have been a damn good role player

See, I disagree. I remember maybe two games where I thought that he might fit in the NBA. The rest of the time, I thought he looked lost and slower than everyone else. Im a pot head though so maybe my memory fails me?

Orion, you remember it wrong. Claver's whole deal was his athleticism. When I first watched him in preseason, I marveled at his smooth fluid agility. For a guy his height, he ran circles around Aldridge, who was a half-inch shorter. He was a good dribbler if he limited it to a couple of bounces. Like Sergio and Rubio, he would have excelled on a run and gun team.

He was so quick because he was so thin. Because he was so thin, he was jumpy and couldn't hold his position against wider players. So he rushed his shots and missed. His shots were usually close in-and-outers. I kept saying, put weight onto him and his shooting will improve, but the trainers forgot to read my posts.

 

[jlprk]

Summary:
After losing the tap, we didn't allow Utah to get a shot off in the 2nd OT.
Also, we hit every shot in the double OT, and we only took 3-pointers!

Well, Utah only had 1 possession in sudden death OT2, so no big deal. And in OT1, we missed 2 field goals.

http://www.nba.com/games/20160712/PORUTA/gameinfo.html#OT1
click "play-by-play" tab, then "OT" button

 

[Trackjack]

Everyone what's to tell if a guy hit 3 point shot. Yes if they shoot well from the 3 point line that make him more dangerous. There other things in basketball that well till me if he is going be a usable player. So he is struggling at the 3 point line but he doing the other thing really well. Give him time summer league just give rookie a taste of the NBA. Some rookie does better than others but just a taste.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Because he was so thin, he was jumpy and couldn't hold his position against wider players. So he rushed his shots and missed. His shots were usually close in-and-outers. I kept saying, put weight onto him and his shooting will improve, but the trainers forgot to read my posts.

Good plan. Put him on the Shawm Kemp diet (how can someone addicted to coke gain 80 pounds? What WAS that man eating - pretty much EVERYTHING, I'd guess). Get him up to 350 and he might actually have a passable NBA jump shot.

At 400 lb. he'll be the next Steph Curry - or more accurately, the next TWO Steph Currys.

BNM