Gary "Hard Cap" Payton

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Gary "Hard Ass" Payton

 
Should this be GP2 nickname the next year?

I imagine every game this year I watch him I will be thinking if his addition is worth a year of the Blazers being hard capped.

Yes its unfair, as its not his fault he is the 7th guard Cronin put on the roster, or that Cronin decided to hard cap the Blazers. But I don't think I'll be able to help but judge Payton in this context.
If "hard cap" can also be used to define his defensive abilities (eg: "GP2 about to come in and put a hard cap on Curry's big 3rd quarter"), then I'm fully in favor.
 
It's clear some people expect us to be contenders this year. That was never going to happen after the Sharpe pick.
 
Josh Hart, Keon Johnson, Trendon Watford, Nassir Little all listed and sized as Small Forward.
From the horse's mouth at the deadline:

And would Cronin be concerned if Billups next season decides to start Lillard, Simons and Hart?

“Size-wise, yes,” Cronin said. “But I’m concerned with putting enough talent on this roster first. Positionally, our trades have solved some of the issues as far as financially/exact position they play. We have to balance the roster, no doubt. But the number one thing is we have to get more talent. We can’t take talent for granted.”
 
Guess the key word there is "Starter". They might start but might never be Starter Caliber?

Starter caliber to me is one that would be considered to start on most playoffs contending teams. Grant is a lock here. All the others the Blazers have, at this point, are either unknown (Walker), raw (Watford), super-raw (GB3) or just a career end of the bench (Eubanks). Watford has great BBIQ and thus could certainly become someone that is in the starter conversation on playoffs teams, but he is not there yet, imho. GB3 has the tools, but he is super-raw at this point. Walker, who knows? I have not seen him play once and the fact that he fell to 57 means that not too many people thought that much of him (it does not mean he could not become one in the future, I just don't know).
 
It's clear some people expect us to be contenders this year. That was never going to happen after the Sharpe pick.
not really contenders, and i agree that that was the mindset after the sharpe pick. but that still doesn't excuse the fact that this roster construction is wacky, and doesn't really address any of our front court issues.
 
Oh goodie looks like we have our next nauseating target to pick on all season until he leaves town. Again, this guy was beloved in the Bay Area and plays his ass off. He defends incredibly well, and didn’t ask to be some cap destroyer for the franchise. He will be a fan favorite from Day 1.
The team added Sharpe and Grant. Little can flat out play. Are people really upset they didn’t assemble the ‘97 Bulls since May?
 
What no sense is this? Little is our 3 if he can just stay healthy and while undersized a little Hart can play the 3 at times. I’ll admit things get real thin if Little gets hurt again which seems more likely than not but to say we have no 3 on this team is silly
lol thank you for making my point. Now what if JG or Nurk also get hurt? we are completely screwed. Yet we have 6 shooting guards.

How is that anything but unbalanced?
 
Oh goodie looks like we have our next nauseating target to pick on all season until he leaves town. Again, this guy was beloved in the Bay Area and plays his ass off. He defends incredibly well, and didn’t ask to be some cap destroyer for the franchise. He will be a fan favorite from Day 1.
The team added Sharpe and Grant. Little can flat out play. Are people really upset they didn’t assemble the ‘97 Bulls since May?

You must be new here. Of course people are actually upset over the Blazers not reaching their unrealistic, unreachable and impossible expectations.
 
From the horse's mouth at the deadline:

And would Cronin be concerned if Billups next season decides to start Lillard, Simons and Hart?

“Size-wise, yes,” Cronin said. “But I’m concerned with putting enough talent on this roster first. Positionally, our trades have solved some of the issues as far as financially/exact position they play. We have to balance the roster, no doubt. But the number one thing is we have to get more talent. We can’t take talent for granted.”
That doesn’t change the fact that they have 5 players that can cover the small forward position.
 
That doesn’t change the fact that they gave 5 players that can cover the small forward position.
yes they have capable defenders now that they didn't before.

but we can all admit without it being labeled as "nonsense" or "spin" to say we are undersized, and have no depth in the front court.

Not to mention, signing GP also removes minutes for our prized rookie unless he too plays out of position.

It's not an ideal roster build. We don't need to "spin" this shit really.
 
yes they have capable defenders now that they didn't before.

but we can all admit without it being labeled as "nonsense" or "spin" to say we are undersized, and have no depth in the front court.
It’s pretty much a spin.
They pick up one more decent backup at center/pf and they have plenty of size. This is all assuming they don’t deal with 3-4 injuries like they have over the last 4 years.
 
It’s pretty much a spin.
They pick up one more decent backup at center/pf and they have plenty of size. This is all assuming they don’t deal with 3-4 injuries like they have over the last 4 years.
label it however you wish, don't really care.

Using our primary asset in FA on yet another guard and forcing our wings to all play up a position is really stupid IMO. I would be OK with a hard cap for someone like Porter or Hartenstein even-- but on a guy who can play maybe 20 mpg while taking away minutes from Sharpe is not smart IMO. Not to mention GP2's only positive impact historically has been on a team with a specialized system that is very hard to replicate. I'm skeptical of his potential impact on our team.

Relying on Drew Eubanks to play 10-20 mpg (that's even if Nurk is healthy all year) is also idiotic IMO.

Really the only smart move here was bringing in Grant, but if you believe what people say, that was a foregone conclusion, but kudos for getting it done without giving up #7.

We'll field a competitive team that will battle for the play-in, but unless Sharpe or Nas pop, our ceiling with this wonky roster build is probably around a 45 win team. And if we have injuries in the front court, we now don't have the flexibility to make moves to address our depth there unless we take downgrades in talent.

This isn't spin, it's an opinion, and I think a fair one.
 
label it however you wish, don't really care.

Using our primary asset in FA on yet another guard and forcing our wings to all play up a position is really stupid IMO. I would be OK with a hard cap for someone like Porter or Hartenstein even-- but on a guy who can play maybe 20 mpg while taking away minutes from Sharpe is not smart IMO. Not to mention GP2's only positive impact historically has been on a team with a specialized system that is very hard to replicate. I'm skeptical of his potential impact on our team.

Relying on Drew Eubanks to play 10-20 mpg (that's even if Nurk is healthy all year) is also idiotic IMO.

Really the only smart move here was bringing in Grant, but if you believe what people say, that was a foregone conclusion, but kudos for getting it done without giving up #7.

We'll field a competitive team that will battle for the play-in, but unless Sharpe or Nas pop, our ceiling with this wonky roster build is probably around a 45 win team. And if we have injuries in the front court, we now don't have the flexibility to make moves to address our depth there unless we take downgrades in talent.

This isn't spin, it's an opinion, and I think a fair one.
We could have had Jalen Smith for less than the TPMLE. No hard cap, better roster balance.
 
label it however you wish, don't really care.

Using our primary asset in FA on yet another guard and forcing our wings to all play up a position is really stupid IMO. I would be OK with a hard cap for someone like Porter or Hartenstein even-- but on a guy who can play maybe 20 mpg while taking away minutes from Sharpe is not smart IMO. Not to mention GP2's only positive impact historically has been on a team with a specialized system that is very hard to replicate.

Relying on drew eubanks to play 10-20 mpg (that's even if Nurk is healthy all year) is also idiotic IMO.

Really the only smart move here was bringing in Grant, but if you believe what people say, that was a foregone conclusion.

We'll field a competitive team that will battle for the play-in, but unless Sharpe or Nas pop, our ceiling with this wonky roster build is probably around a 45 win team. And if we have injuries in the front court, we now don't have the flexibility to make moves to address our depth there unless we take downgrades in talent.

This isn't spin, it's an opinion, and I think a fair one.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with it? I mean should we tank or should we go all in? If we wanted to go all-in, we could have paid the exorbitant asking price for OG. Would people be happy then? We're still not really contenders.

This was always going to be a 2-3 year rebuild. We had limited ability to make trades this off-season because Ant/Nurk needed to be re-signed, but they're also some of our biggest trade assets. Balancing the roster around Dame/Ant was always going to be a huge challenge and realistically I don't think it can be done with the assets we currently have on hand. See how this season goes and pivot from there. They're primed to pivot into full go-for-it (trade all our picks) or full youth movement after this season.
 
Oh goodie looks like we have our next nauseating target to pick on all season until he leaves town. Again, this guy was beloved in the Bay Area and plays his ass off. He defends incredibly well, and didn’t ask to be some cap destroyer for the franchise. He will be a fan favorite from Day 1.
The team added Sharpe and Grant. Little can flat out play. Are people really upset they didn’t assemble the ‘97 Bulls since May?

I don't think anyone is unhappy with Gary. I think a lot of fans are frustrated that we have such a short team and no depth in our frontcourt.
 
I don't disagree with any of this, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with it? I mean should we tank or should we go all in? If we wanted to go all-in, we could have paid the exorbitant asking price for OG. Would people be happy then? We're still not really contenders.

This was always going to be a 2-3 year rebuild. We had limited ability to make trades this off-season because Ant/Nurk needed to be re-signed, but they're also some of our biggest trade assets. Balancing the roster around Dame/Ant was always going to be a huge challenge and realistically I don't think it can be done with the assets we currently have on hand. See how this season goes and pivot from there. They're primed to pivot into full go-for-it (trade all our picks) or full youth movement after this season.

I'm thinking the plan is to make a move at the deadline. Could very well see Ant shipped out, especially if Sharpe shows that he can contribute right away.
 
Should this be GP2 nickname the next year?

I imagine every game this year I watch him I will be thinking if his addition is worth a year of the Blazers being hard capped.

Yes its unfair, as its not his fault he is the 7th guard Cronin put on the roster, or that Cronin decided to hard cap the Blazers. But I don't think I'll be able to help but judge Payton in this context.
I think YOU should.
 
I'm thinking the plan is to make a move at the deadline. Could very well see Ant shipped out, especially if Sharpe shows that he can contribute right away.

Personally, I think they're going to let Dame rebuild his trade value and them ship him after this season.

If everything pops, ie. Nas pops, and Ant pops more, and Watford pops etc. and we smash our ceiling. That's the only way I see us pivot into full go-for-it mode with Dame. But that's unlikely imo.
 
I don't disagree with any of this, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with it? I mean should we tank or should we go all in? If we wanted to go all-in, we could have paid the exorbitant asking price for OG. Would people be happy then? We're still not really contenders.

This was always going to be a 2-3 year rebuild. We had limited ability to make trades this off-season because Ant/Nurk needed to be re-signed, but they're also some of our biggest trade assets. Balancing the roster around Dame/Ant was always going to be a huge challenge and realistically I don't think it can be done with the assets we currently have on hand. See how this season goes and pivot from there. They're primed to pivot into full go-for-it (trade all our picks) or full youth movement after this season.
there was realistically no one out there in FA for us that would have drastically raised our ceiling, but i don't see how GP2 does that either. I would have gone after other targets that at least made sense for our roster as constructed.
 
Personally, I think they're going to let Dame rebuild his trade value and them ship him after this season.

If everything pops, ie. Nas pops, and Ant pops more, and Watford pops etc. and we smash our ceiling. That's the only way I see us pivot into full go-for-it mode with Dame. But that's unlikely imo.

If we can get a deal similar to what Utah, I'm good with it.
 
It's weird that the Warriors have 1 player over 6'9" in their rotation...had GP2 on their team as a wing, and yet....
we have a draymond on our roster? is grant as good a defender as wiggins? is Nurk as durable as Looney?
 
label it however you wish, don't really care.

Using our primary asset in FA on yet another guard and forcing our wings to all play up a position is really stupid IMO. I would be OK with a hard cap for someone like Porter or Hartenstein even-- but on a guy who can play maybe 20 mpg while taking away minutes from Sharpe is not smart IMO. Not to mention GP2's only positive impact historically has been on a team with a specialized system that is very hard to replicate. I'm skeptical of his potential impact on our team.

Relying on Drew Eubanks to play 10-20 mpg (that's even if Nurk is healthy all year) is also idiotic IMO.

Really the only smart move here was bringing in Grant, but if you believe what people say, that was a foregone conclusion, but kudos for getting it done without giving up #7.

We'll field a competitive team that will battle for the play-in, but unless Sharpe or Nas pop, our ceiling with this wonky roster build is probably around a 45 win team. And if we have injuries in the front court, we now don't have the flexibility to make moves to address our depth there unless we take downgrades in talent.

This isn't spin, it's an opinion, and I think a fair one.
If this team wins 45 games and makes the play in I will be ecstatic!
 
there was realistically no one out there in FA for us that would have drastically raised our ceiling, but i don't see how GP2 does that either. I would have gone after other targets that at least made sense for our roster as constructed.

I see GP2 as the type of player that is going to maintain this value until his mid thirties. Kind of like PJ Tucker. Every team is willing to trade for that kind of player so we can just move him later if necessary.
 
I see GP2 as the type of player that is going to maintain this value until his mid thirties. Kind of like PJ Tucker. Every team is willing to trade for that kind of player so we can just move him later if necessary.
that's what we said about roco.

i'm rightfully skeptical whether he can do what he did in GS. Let's not forget that he couldn't stick on any other roster and actually played on the GS summer league team last summer.
 
that's what we said about roco.

i'm rightfully skeptical whether he can do what he did in GS. Let's not forget that he couldn't stick on any other roster and actually played on the GS summer league team last summer.

We got an early second for RoCo. If that's all we ended up getting for GP2 I'm honestly fine with it. That is about his value.
 
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