Gender issue revisited - Buck Angel

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BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Yes, you did. You apparently did not research biological sex. Generally speaking, the biological sex is based upon the sexual reproductive organ.

And it's wonderful you see people as they want to be seen at all times. As I said a few days ago, you're probably more of a humanitarian-based than I am.
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I know what you meant by biological sex.

As I said, to the homecoming queen, her genitalia is a curse. A biological mistake. Like a cat with 6 toes or a calf with two heads.

That these mistakes can happen is sufficient to realize the flaw in the biological sex basis.

I don't see any way to fairly judge other than asking the person, or taking their ongoing appearance and behavior into account.

The bigotry is in treating a group of people differently because of your bias. You wouldn't go posting that your wife is a man, why not give the homecoming queen the same and equal treatment.
 
magnifier661 said:
You can always look at the Adam's apple or hands too
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I don't have a visible adams apple, and you Asian folk have dainty hands, I don't think it's that easy. Especially after someone has been doing hormone therapy for a decade or longer. Just look at the picture of Buck in the first post, if you met him, would you know, would you guess, would you even suspect he has ever been anything but a dude?
 
Further said:
I don't have a visible adams apple, and you Asian folk have dainty hands, I don't think it's that easy. Especially after someone has been doing hormone therapy for a decade or longer. Just look at the picture of Buck in the first post, if you met him, would you know, would you guess, would you even suspect he has ever been anything but a dude?
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Looking up the woman's skirt was figurative. Another way of saying "prove your view of the person through physical traits."
 
Denny Crane said:
I know what you meant by biological sex.

As I said, to the homecoming queen, her genitalia is a curse. A biological mistake. Like a cat with 6 toes or a calf with two heads.

That these mistakes can happen is sufficient to realize the flaw in the biological sex basis.

I don't see any way to fairly judge other than asking the person, or taking their ongoing appearance and behavior into account.

The bigotry is in treating a group of people differently because of your bias. You wouldn't go posting that your wife is a man, why not give the homecoming queen the same and equal treatment.
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I hear gay peopel say all the time, they wish they could change their desires. You're saying their biology is wrong. I'm asking, how do you know their biology is wrong? Isn't it possible that their psychology is instead wrong? Or for some, it's biology and others its' psychology? I hear gay people talking more about their psychology being incorrect than their biology (though I do somes hear them refer to their biology being off).

As I said, and have said all along, I can see people for their biology, and I try to see people for their psychology. I am not perfect, we all have our flaws. I see things more through biology lenses. You're telling me there's something wrong with it. I disagree with your assertion, because science says there are different viewpoints, and I agree with science. But I ultimately respect people, regardless. If that makes me a bigot, then I am a bigot. As I've said a few times now, you're a greater humanitarian than me.

For the record, I don't believe I ever said anything much about the HC queen. I was mostly out of that discussion. She is both a boy and a female - there's really nothing wrong with that viewpoint.
 
Denny Crane said:
It's not up to me. I'm accepting the person at their word. I have zero reason to think they're lying, perverted, asking for it, inhuman, or otherwise not what they say they are.
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Someone told me the other day that they met jesus and they were sure of it.

I accepted them at their word as I have zero reason to think they are lying, perverted, asking for it, inhumane or otherwise have any motive to lie.

Proof positive there is a jesus!
 
Further said:
I don't have a visible adams apple, and you Asian folk have dainty hands, I don't think it's that easy. Especially after someone has been doing hormone therapy for a decade or longer. Just look at the picture of Buck in the first post, if you met him, would you know, would you guess, would you even suspect he has ever been anything but a dude?
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Now, I'm really starting to question all you bitches on this board. :devilwink:

Which of you have penises? Which of you don't? Which of you identify with the female gender? :MARIS61:
 
If the person is good or not at presenting him/herself as the gender they prefer also shouldn't matter. So you call one person who has stubble a he and another one that doesnt a she, no, you can't base it on anything other than the intentions of the presenter. If they dress as a woman and choose a female name, then just go that route. Otherwise you will be crocodile dundee grabbing crotches everywhere you go.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Now, I'm really starting to question all you bitches on this board. :devilwink:

Which of you have penises? Which of you don't? Which of you identify with the female gender? :MARIS61:
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hahahha, but honestly, go to the first post. Tell me, honestly, would you suspect that guy was born female?
 
Denny Crane said:
Looking up the woman's skirt was figurative. Another way of saying "prove your view of the person through physical traits."
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Yes, their biology. There's a lot to all of this. Which is why they have different definitions of sex in these days. Biological sex. Psychological sex........
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Yes.
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To be fair, you said go to the first post, NOT the first picture. I went to the first post, third picture.

Some of the pics I've seen of Buck, kind of an odd-looking person, so I guess while I wouldn't suspect it, it's not a shock.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I hear gay peopel say all the time, they wish they could change their desires. You're saying their biology is wrong. I'm asking, how do you know their biology is wrong? Isn't it possible that their psychology is instead wrong? Or for some, it's biology and others its' psychology? I hear gay people talking more about their psychology being incorrect than their biology (though I do somes hear them refer to their biology being off).

As I said, and have said all along, I can see people for their biology, and I try to see people for their psychology. I am not perfect, we all have our flaws. I see things more through biology lenses. You're telling me there's something wrong with it. I disagree with your assertion, because science says there are different viewpoints, and I agree with science. But I ultimately respect people, regardless. If that makes me a bigot, then I am a bigot. As I've said a few times now, you're a greater humanitarian than me.

For the record, I don't believe I ever said anything much about the HC queen. I was mostly out of that discussion. She is both a boy and a female - there's really nothing wrong with that viewpoint.
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Ask the person.

This is not so rare that you chalk it up to some psych disorder.

It's been scientifically studied, and it's not a psych disorder. They can poll people and ask them about their circumstances. When you have people all over the world reporting the exact same thing, like "woman trapped in a man's body," it's not a psych thing.

The people need or get counseling not as some sort of cure, but because of the societal pressures, safety risks, depression over being disfigured, etc.

There may be some odd exception to the rule, but very rare.

Again, it is bigoted to treat people differently because you have prejudice toward a group. It's not derogatory.
 
Further said:
If the person is good or not at presenting him/herself as the gender they prefer also shouldn't matter. So you call one person who has stubble a he and another one that doesnt a she, no, you can't base it on anything other than the intentions of the presenter. If they dress as a woman and choose a female name, then just go that route. Otherwise you will be crocodile dundee grabbing crotches everywhere you go.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

It ain't rocket science.
 
Further said:
hahahha, but honestly, go to the first post. Tell me, honestly, would you suspect that guy was born female?
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Wait a minute! Wasn't This long winded thread about "looks don't determine the sex". Now you ask us to determine the sex from looks?!

:maris61:
 
Denny Crane said:
Exactly.

It ain't rocket science.
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Exactly. It's biology. And it's psychology.

Why does it matter that I see a person one thing biologically and another psychologically if I'm respectful to them? I have yet to see a real answer on this. Both perspectives are correct.
 
Denny Crane said:
Ask the person.

This is not so rare that you chalk it up to some psych disorder.

It's been scientifically studied, and it's not a psych disorder. They can poll people and ask them about their circumstances. When you have people all over the world reporting the exact same thing, like "woman trapped in a man's body," it's not a psych thing.

The people need or get counseling not as some sort of cure, but because of the societal pressures, safety risks, depression over being disfigured, etc.

There may be some odd exception to the rule, but very rare.

Again, it is bigoted to treat people differently because you have prejudice toward a group. It's not derogatory.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make it any less of a psych thing, Denny. They're affected because their psychology and their biology don't jive. Saying one is more to blame than the other...... I've spent enough time googling the matter recently that I don't find a whole lot of people saying one or the other is the ultimate culprit, just that they don't jive.

Since you keep referring to "bigoted", show me where I treated people differently. I really don't know why you're directing this my way. I don't have a prejudice towards a group (at least not the transgenered). It's bigoted if people cannot accept my biological point of view.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
That doesn't make it any less of a psych thing, Denny. They're affected because their psychology and their biology don't jive. Saying one is more to blame than the other...... I've spent enough time googling the matter recently that I don't find a whole lot of people saying one or the other is the ultimate culprit, just that they don't jive.

Since you keep referring to "bigoted", show me where I treated people differently. I really don't know why you're directing this my way. I don't have a prejudice towards a group (at least not the transgenered). It's bigoted if people cannot accept my biological point of view.
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You posted your wife is a woman. You posted the homecoming queen is a boy. Different treatment.

Like I said, it's not a derogatory term. I treat athletes different than other people. I might ask for an autograph, and I certainly don't think the rest of us have much value to our autographs.
 
This trans gender has a lot of similarities to religion from my perspective. They both rely on a belief and trusting an idea exists even though you may not be able to show it through science or hard evidence.

I understand why Denny has such conviction, it's like questioning to a religious person if God exist. In their mind they have no doubt God exists. I think others are a little more open to understanding if some don't believe, but definitely the conviction Denny has is no different than someone who doesn't even want to discuss the possibility if God exist. There is no discussion there like there is no discussion from Denny if he is right on this topic.

Thinking of it that way makes me sort of understand why Denny is approaching this subject like this
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
This trans gender has a lot of similarities to religion from my perspective. They both rely on a belief and trusting an idea exists even though you may not be able to show it through science or hard evidence.

I understand why Denny has such conviction, it's like questioning to a religious person if God exist. In their mind they have no doubt God exists. I think others are a little more open to understanding if some don't believe, but definitely the conviction Denny has is no different than someone who doesn't even want to discuss the possibility if God exist. There is no discussion there like there is no discussion from Denny if he is right on this topic.

Thinking of it that way makes me sort of understand why Denny is approaching this subject like this
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Wow impressive analogy! I can definitely relate. If I could rep; you'd get one!
 
Two points.

I don't doubt a person believes in God when they tell me they do.

My conviction is based on something with empirical evidence (unlike God).

I do believe religion exists. I see churches all over the place.

OK, three points.
 
Denny Crane said:
You posted your wife is a woman. You posted the homecoming queen is a boy. Different treatment.

Like I said, it's not a derogatory term. I treat athletes different than other people. I might ask for an autograph, and I certainly don't think the rest of us have much value to our autographs.
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Yes. That's because I think a high schooler and a 30-year old wife and mother are quite different. That's apples to oranges. I call high school boys kids or boys. That's apples to apples. They are not men. Don't try so hard, Denny. Quit digging and making something outta nothing.

You gonna tell me my view there is incorrect, too?

Funny. I thought you'd have wanted me to call the HC queen a girl. Now I refer to the person as a girl and I'm getting grief? For the love of God, now you really are trolling.
 
Denny Crane said:
Two points.

I don't doubt a person believes in God when they tell me they do.

My conviction is based on something with empirical evidence (unlike God).

I do believe religion exists. I see churches all over the place.

OK, three points.
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But you see a penis and don't believe it exists?
 
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