Gender issue revisited - Buck Angel

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I've explained it twice. Three times now.

Where do YOU draw the line?

Are the nazis' biologically based opinions right, wrong, tolerable, or you tell me?

Do you have a penis, Denny? Or a vagina? When you look down, what exists? I've had sex before. I know I have a penis. I know my wife has a vagina. It's pretty apparent they're two very different things. I didn't choose my attachment. My wife didn't choose her lack of one.

Are you saying my eyes are lying to me? I think I have a penis, therefore, I have a penis?

 

[Denny Crane]

Who discriminates against the group of people because they are cross gendered?

And I picked this group (neo nazis) for a few reasons.

1) Bigotry
2) They have an "alternate view" which is what some people are arguing is OK to have one
3) Their view is wrong in my eyes. If it's wrong in these other peoples', too, then maybe they can see their "alternate view" of transgendered people can be, and actually is equally wrong.
4) Bigotry towards groups has negative impact on the targeted people.

My words, not some twisted version.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You won't answer because you don't like the answer.

Focused like a laser beam.

On what? I can't answer a dumb post with a dumber point that doesn't relate to what I'm talking about? You're making a giant leap, Holmes.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I made no judgment, but please do tell.

I used science. I don't even recall directly talking about some woman, other than biologically. I used basic, widely-accepted science that says, biologically, if you are born with a penis, you are a boy/man; if you are born with a vagina, you are a girl/woman. I USED SCIENCE. Just as you did to defend the stance of gender or psychological sex. These are two different concepts. You can be a boy and be a female under these two concepts. To use the homecoming queen, since this was a hot topic earlier, though many of the comments were gross, the HC queen is a boy, biologically. The HC queen is a female, psychologically. The words, biologically, don't really matter. If you want to call a penis an opus, and a boy a "Saskatoon", then the HC queen is a "Saskatoon" biologically and a female psychologically. The words are just words, mere descriptors.

Do yourself (and all of us) a favor and google the "definition of biological sex". Don't just look for a single answer. Review several of them.

The difference between my view and yours, Denny, is that I'm not telling you that you're wrong. And I'm not saying I'm right. My view is far more open than yours. It accounts for natural life, biology, and it accounts for psychology. It's looking at a much broader picture (or multiple pictures) than you're point of view.

You won't answer because you don't like the answer.

Focused like a laser beam.

 

[Further]

I think cup only defends the blazers. He's an ultimate homer. Denny is stubborn about everything

Denny is intellectually honest. He has a viewpoint, lays it on the table, and debates the hell out of it. In this case, I mostly agree with him. In other cases I completely and utterly think he's wrong, but I like how he chooses his sides on issues totally based on his world view and not based on what side A or side B believe. This I respect.

 

[Denny Crane]

On what? I can't answer a dumb post with a dumber point that doesn't relate to what I'm talking about? You're making a giant leap, Holmes.

You can't justify the biology as sole determination of a person's identity or gender.

 

[Denny Crane]

Do you have a penis, Denny? Or a vagina? When you look down, what exists? I've had sex before. I know I have a penis. I know my wife has a vagina. It's pretty apparent they're two very different things. I didn't choose my attachment. My wife didn't choose her lack of one.

Are you saying my eyes are lying to me? I think I have a penis, therefore, I have a penis?

What about a person with a penis and breasts?

It's not the biology.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You won't answer because you don't like the answer.

Focused like a laser beam.

I already answered. Others see how ridiculous your posts are, why can't you see it. As I said earlier:

"I was using biology to simply explain that a penis is a male sexual reproductive organ, while a vagina is a female sexual reproductive organ. There was no form of judgment made, but I simply used a biological descriptor to identify a characteristic. An observation of a characteristic."

That's a very big difference. As I said in a previous post, the Nazi's already had identified what would make them superior. They reverse-engineered, starting from what they considering superior, and found the biology to support their already-identified/intended result. They started with the result and then filled in the support.

I'm starting with basic biology and making no judgment. Whether the Nazi's were right or wrong doesn't matter, nor does it make any sense in this conversation.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

What about a person with a penis and breasts?

It's not the biology.

Biologically? I have no idea. I'm sure there's a descriptor for this. Psychologically?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Denny is intellectually honest. He has a viewpoint, lays it on the table, and debates the hell out of it. In this case, I mostly agree with him. In other cases I completely and utterly think he's wrong, but I like how he chooses his sides on issues totally based on his world view and not based on what side A or side B believe. This I respect.

I just like how he constantly tweaks his points to cloud things up and try to fit them in.

 

[Denny Crane]

I already answered. Others see how ridiculous your posts are, why can't you see it. As I said earlier:

"I was using biology to simply explain that a penis is a male sexual reproductive organ, while a vagina is a female sexual reproductive organ. There was no form of judgment made, but I simply used a biological descriptor to identify a characteristic. An observation of a characteristic."

That's a very big difference. As I said in a previous post, the Nazi's already had identified what would make them superior. They reverse-engineered, starting from what they considering superior, and found the biology to support their already-identified/intended result. They started with the result and then filled in the support.

I'm starting with basic biology and making no judgment. Whether the Nazi's were right or wrong doesn't matter, nor does it make any sense in this conversation.

Non answer.

I asked if the Nazis' views based on biology are right, wrong, or you tell me.

The follow up is if theirs can be wrong, why can't yours?

I'll add:

If you look at a woman and have to look up her skirt to decide she's a woman, how is that not making a judgment?

 

[Further]

I just like how he constantly tweaks his points to cloud things up and try to fit them in.

Should he argue like MarAzul, adding phrases that connect to nothing? No, he has a point, and he nips and tucks till that point is sleek, slender and would look dashing in a little black number.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

You made a judgment that the woman isn't a woman.

Nazis made judgment that Jews, because of their genes, aren't human.

I did not call you a Nazi. You say it's ok to have a differing opinion, etc, and not be wrong I am asking where YOU draw the line. The neo nazis have a differing opinion. I am not shifting anything here, just asking if their differing opinion is wrong?

The next question is if theirs is wrong, why can't yours be?

I can play this:


You made a judgment that the man is a woman.

Nazis made judgment that Jews, because of their genes, aren't human.

I'm not calling you a Nazi. The neo nazis have a differing opinion. I am not shifting anything here, just asking if their differing opinion is wrong?

The next question is if theirs is wrong, why can't yours be?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Non answer.

I asked if the Nazis' views based on biology are right, wrong, or you tell me.

The follow up is if theirs can be wrong, why can't yours?

I'll add:

If you look at a woman and have to look up her skirt to decide she's a woman, how is that not making a judgment?

That's not a non-answer. It's one, irrelevant to the argument. There was no judgment placed. I am not calling anyone anything. I am simply saying how people are identified biologically. Where I'd be making a judgment is if I call the HC queen's gender male. Then, I've called him what I've wanted to call him, and from my own viewpoint, not how he identifies himself.

My dad dressed up like a woman for Halloween. Looked pretty convincing. Anyone who saw him that day and assumed he was female was judging him. :MARIS61:

 

[Denny Crane]

Should he argue like MarAzul, adding phrases that connect to nothing? No, he has a point, and he nips and tucks till that point is sleek, slender and would look dashing in a little black number.

It's Socratic method. In venues where we seek the Truth, we ask questions. When my questions are ducked or twisted out of context or turned into strawmen, I look for another way to get the answer.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Should he argue like MarAzul, adding phrases that connect to nothing? No, he has a point, and he nips and tucks till that point is sleek, slender and would look dashing in a little black number.

He went from talking bigot, to neo-Nazi, to Nazi to? I mean, he doesn't go back and change the previous points, he just bends and bonds them together.

Better than MarAzul, no doubt, as I can at least read it.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It's Socratic method. In venues where we seek the Truth, we ask questions. When my questions are ducked or twisted out of context or turned into strawmen, I look for another way to get the answer.

LOL. Like I said, "When you point the finger at someone........"

 

[Denny Crane]

That's not a non-answer. It's one, irrelevant to the argument. There was no judgment placed. I am not calling anyone anything. I am simply saying how people are identified biologically. Where I'd be making a judgment is if I call the HC queen's gender male. Then, I've called him what I've wanted to call him, and from my own viewpoint, not how he identifies himself.

My dad dressed up like a woman for Halloween. Looked pretty convincing. Anyone who saw him that day and assumed he was female was judging him. :MARIS61:

Are you not calling a woman a man? Even in private.

Your dad didn't take hormones to grow breasts, or go about in full drag all the time, change his name from Donald to Donna, seek medical and psychiatric care, etc.

Cross dressing and transgender are not the same thing... You would call your dad a man until he calls himself Donna and stops wearing men's clothes, and so on.

As far as the homecoming queen is concerned, her male genitals are a freak accident.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Denny is intellectually honest. He has a viewpoint, lays it on the table, and debates the hell out of it. In this case, I mostly agree with him. In other cases I completely and utterly think he's wrong, but I like how he chooses his sides on issues totally based on his world view and not based on what side A or side B believe. This I respect.

And if you don't agree with him he somehow relates your position to that of neo nazi. He has no perspective.

Should I tell you to put yourself in Hitler's shoes to have more empathy for him. How did nazi talk come into all this . . . I know he will say to show there is a group that thinks wrong but that at the very least implies groups who don't think like Denny are somehow equivalent to neo nazi thinking???? Just a bad example trying to draw out emotion

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Are you not calling a woman a man? Even in private.

Your dad didn't take hormones to grow breasts, or go about in full drag all the time, change his name from Donald to Donna, seek medical and psychiatric care, etc.

Cross dressing and transgender are not the same thing... You would call your dad a man until he calls himself Donna and stops wearing men's clothes, and so on.

As far as the homecoming queen is concerned, her male genitals are a freak accident.

You're mixing biology and psychology.

 

[Denny Crane]

I can play this:


You made a judgment that the man is a woman.

Nazis made judgment that Jews, because of their genes, aren't human.

I'm not calling you a Nazi. The neo nazis have a differing opinion. I am not shifting anything here, just asking if their differing opinion is wrong?

The next question is if theirs is wrong, why can't yours be?

It's not up to me. I'm accepting the person at their word. I have zero reason to think they're lying, perverted, asking for it, inhuman, or otherwise not what they say they are.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Are you not calling a woman a man? Even in private.

Your dad didn't take hormones to grow breasts, or go about in full drag all the time, change his name from Donald to Donna, seek medical and psychiatric care, etc.

Cross dressing and transgender are not the same thing... You would call your dad a man until he calls himself Donna and stops wearing men's clothes, and so on.

As far as the homecoming queen is concerned, her male genitals are a freak accident.

Maybe the psychology is the freak accident, and the male genitals are correct. I can't say for sure.

I'm not making judgment. Your statement did, however.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It's not up to me. I'm accepting the person at their word. I have zero reason to think they're lying, perverted, asking for it, inhuman, or otherwise not what they say they are.

And that's wonderful.

That doesn't necessarily mean that what they tell you they are is what they are biologically.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're mixing biology and psychology.

I am not.

I asked about a person with penis and breasts.

I see woman because she lives as one in every way she can.

 

[magnifier661]

Non answer.

I asked if the Nazis' views based on biology are right, wrong, or you tell me.

The follow up is if theirs can be wrong, why can't yours?

I'll add:

If you look at a woman and have to look up her skirt to decide she's a woman, how is that not making a judgment?

You can always look at the Adam's apple or hands too

 

[magnifier661]

I am not.

I asked about a person with penis and breasts.

I see woman because she lives as one in every way she can.

And I see him as a man because he has a penis. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I am not.

I asked about a person with penis and breasts.

I see woman because she lives as one in every way she can.

Yes, you did. You apparently did not research biological sex. Generally speaking, the biological sex is based upon the sexual reproductive organ.

And it's wonderful you see people as they want to be seen at all times. As I said a few days ago, you're probably more of a humanitarian-based than I am.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

And I see him as a man because he has a penis. Is that so hard to understand?

And I can see them biologically, and am open to the psychology of them.

 

[magnifier661]

And I can see them biologically, and am open to the psychology of them.

As am I. All the power to them. They can't force me to call them a woman. What are they "nazis"?!

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

As am I. All the power to them. They can't force me to call them a woman. What are they "nazis"?!

Well, I know you're not a Nazi. Biologically, you were born inferior to me because you're not white, blue eyes, and blonde hair. I am. So bow down.