Gender issue revisited - Buck Angel

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magnifier661 said:
You are exaggerating the obvious to support your argument. So fucking what about the neo nazis opinions. There are many other groups that share similar views. You used an extreme to get a desired reaction.
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Aren't the neo nazis allowed their differing opinions?

That's what some of you are claiming; differing opinions.

And yes, I do think there's not much of a difference.
 
hoojacks said:
I actually got to know some transgendered people.
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I made this point a few different times in earlier posts. You never know until you are really put into the position. It's no different than growing up using the f-word or "dyke" or whatever to describe something or someone you don't like. And then, as you grow up and are exposed to and understand the real meaning of the words, and you have family/friends that are gay, you change. You stop using the words. I didn't stop using the words out of fear of offending anyone. I stopped using those words because I understood their meaning and I found better words to use in their place.

That being said, I get what you, crandc, DC are saying. As I've said before, I agree with most of it. It's not about being right. It's about having always lived my life from a particular viewpoint. The sight, the existence of specific biological factors..... these are things pretty black-and-white and simple, and that's generally the type of viewpoint I take. The psychological side of things..... it's still scientific, but I don't tend to not venture into this side of things. It doesn't necessarily make me simple-minded that I don't delve deeper, it's just the way I tend to view things. I value the known commodity, the sight, the sound, the touch, the taste more than digging into the chemistry or story (not the word I'm looking for, but it'll do) behind it.
 
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hoojacks said:
I just (totally randomly, I swear) saw this web comic about a gay guy who dates transgendered men.

It's baaaarely safe for work and/or bitter old men.

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LOL. I think most of the bitter old left this thread by now.

But thanks for sharing. Funny stuff.
 
Just take 10 minutes and think to yourself about what life would be like as a transgendered person. I don't mean that in a condescending way, you may already have, but I think most people could benefit from really trying to put yourself into the lives of other people, even if its just in your mind.
 
Okay I went on business to Thailand many times. There are some very beautiful "Women that were once genetic men". In fact, our translator made a joke the first time we went. He told us that the beautiful woman were once men and the woman that were always woman were ugly.

I think once a person makes full physical transition; they are still men. The moment they completely transform; they are woman in my eyes. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but it will not change my mind.
 
Denny Crane said:
Aren't the neo nazis allowed their differing opinions?

That's what some of you are claiming; differing opinions.

And yes, I do think there's not much of a difference.
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Yes Denny, let's compare neo nazis to people who do not agree about the transgender issue. That is real comparable. I know your point is a group can be totally wrong but to throw out a group like that is just stupid.

But since you want to go there, question is who is the neo nazi in this thread? Read the way the two sides are talking about it and there is only one side here that remotely sound like the neo nazis party.
 
Further said:
Just take 10 minutes and think to yourself about what life would be like as a transgendered person. I don't mean that in a condescending way, you may already have, but I think most people could benefit from really trying to put yourself into the lives of other people, even if its just in your mind.
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Well, I'm a man trapped in a girls body, swallowed by a man.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Yes Denny, let's compare neo nazis to people who do not agree about the transgender issue. That is real comparable. I know your point is a group can be totally wrong but to throw out a group like that is just stupid.

But since you want to go there, question is who is the neo nazi in this thread? Read the way the two sides are talking about it and there is only one side here that remotely sound like the neo nazis party.
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Denny is the king of hyperbole. It was obviously a dig by him to those that disagree with him.

I do like your question though. It seems his side sways more of the neo nazi side; with the way they try and force others to their views.
 
hoojacks, it sounds to me like you didn't actually change your opinion.. you just decided to ignore it. Which is pretty much what I do anyways.

I'm not concerned with proving anyone wrong or myself right about this. For most of the people with your opinion, that seems to be the only concern, and attacks, not answers or questions, are the main weapons.

I'd like to thank you though, you've already helped some of my views change a little bit. Tolerance is good.

Sent from my banana using Tapatalk 4
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Yes Denny, let's compare neo nazis to people who do not agree about the transgender issue. That is real comparable. I know your point is a group can be totally wrong but to throw out a group like that is just stupid.

But since you want to go there, question is who is the neo nazi in this thread? Read the way the two sides are talking about it and there is only one side here that remotely sound like the neo nazis party.
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Who discriminates against the group of people because they are cross gendered?

And I picked this group (neo nazis) for a few reasons.

1) Bigotry
2) The have an "alternate view" which is what some people are arguing is OK to have one
3) Their view is wrong in my eyes. If it's wrong in these other peoples', too, then maybe they can see their "alternate view" of transgendered people can be, and actually is equally wrong.
4) Bigotry towards groups has negative impact on the targeted people.
 
magnifier661 said:
Denny is the king of hyperbole. It was obviously a dig by him to those that disagree with him.

I do like your question though. It seems his side sways more of the neo nazi side; with the way they try and force others to their views.
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And you are the king of abusing words you don't understand the meaning of.

:cheers:
 
Denny Crane said:
Who discriminates against the group of people because they are cross gendered?

And I picked this group (neo nazis) for a few reasons.

1) Bigotry
2) The have an "alternate view" which is what some people are arguing is OK to have one
3) Their view is wrong in my eyes. If it's wrong in these other peoples', too, then maybe they can see their "alternate view" of transgendered people can be, and actually is equally wrong.
4) Bigotry towards groups has negative impact on the targeted people.
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Big difference. Neo-Nazis are hate groups because they hate anything and everyone that is different. They are extremists. The alternate viewpoint is founded in biology. Several of us accept multiple viewpoints. Neo-Nazis accept one. Most of us aren't hating anyone or anything, we're not discriminating, we're not rioting or doing anything to oppress others. Stupid, stupid comparison that is way over the top.

The audience in this thread that maybe your point could relate to has long ago left this thread.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
hoojacks, it sounds to me like you didn't actually change your opinion.. you just decided to ignore it. Which is pretty much what I do anyways.

I'm not concerned with proving anyone wrong or myself right about this. For most of the people with your opinion, that seems to be the only concern, and attacks, not answers or questions, are the main weapons.

I'd like to thank you though, you've already helped some of my views change a little bit. Tolerance is good.

Sent from my banana using Tapatalk 4
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I'm in the same boat as you. I'm not invested in this topic and I'm just voicing my personal opinion. Not to prove in right, but to explain my point of view.

It's sad that the owner of this site is calling us bigots because we don't agree with him and he can't change our minds.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Big difference. Neo-Nazis are hate groups because they hate anything and everyone that is different. They are extremists. The alternate viewpoint is founded in biology. Several of us accept multiple viewpoints. Neo-Nazis accept one. Most of us aren't hating anyone or anything, we're not discriminating, we're not rioting or doing anything to oppress others. Stupid, stupid comparison that is way over the top.

The audience in this thread that maybe your point could relate to has long ago left this thread.
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Couldn't of said it better myself. Good job
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Big difference. Neo-Nazis are hate groups because they hate anything and everyone that is different. They are extremists. The alternate viewpoint is founded in biology. Several of us accept multiple viewpoints. Neo-Nazis accept one. Most of us aren't hating anyone or anything, we're not discriminating, we're not rioting or doing anything to oppress others. Stupid, stupid comparison that is way over the top.

The audience in this thread that maybe your point could relate to has long ago left this thread.
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The neo nazis claim their viewpoint is founded in biology, too.

And there's plenty of hate involved. 20+ transgendered people are killed a year for no good reason. Not all neo nazis actually kill someone or cause bodily harm.
 
Denny Crane said:
Who discriminates against the group of people because they are cross gendered?

And I picked this group (neo nazis) for a few reasons.

1) Bigotry
2) The have an "alternate view" which is what some people are arguing is OK to have one
3) Their view is wrong in my eyes. If it's wrong in these other peoples', too, then maybe they can see their "alternate view" of transgendered people can be, and actually is equally wrong.
4) Bigotry towards groups has negative impact on the targeted people.
Click to expand...

Posters on here are discriminating against trans genders? Most posters who don't believe in this or don't understand this say they have no problem calling people whatever they want to be called. Then we get the condescending tone of well at least you will do that because that takes nothing and your evil if you do otherwise . . . and I'll still imply your a bad person for not believing what I believe.

It's crazy. Taking a concept that is a complicated issue at best and far fetched to some and shoving it down posters throats calling them ignorant for not understanding. Personally I've been so turned off by the side of posters talking down to others about the topic it makes me want to puke back the concession of calling them by what they want to be called and saying the hell to that and this whole topic.

I'll try not to let this group of posters get me so on tilt as to do that . . . but it does have to tone of a group of religious fanatics coming at you.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Posters on here are discriminating against trans genders? Most posters who don't believe in this or don't understand this say they have no problem calling people whatever they want to be called. Then we get the condescending tone of well at least you will do that because that takes nothing and your evil if you do otherwise . . . and I'll still imply your a bad person for not believing what I believe.

It's crazy. Taking a concept that is a complicated issue at best and far fetched to some and shoving it down posters throats calling them ignorant for not understanding. Personally I've been so turned off by the side of posters talking down to others about the topic it makes me want to puke back the concession of calling them by what they want to be called and saying the hell to that and this whole topic.

But I won't let this group of posters get me so on tilt as to do that . . . but it does have to tone of a group of religious fanatics coming at you.
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Ignorance by definition is not understanding.

Ignorance and intolerance are a dangerous mix.
 
Denny Crane said:
The neo nazis claim their viewpoint is founded in biology, too.

And there's plenty of hate involved. 20+ transgendered people are killed a year for no good reason. Not all neo nazis actually kill someone or cause bodily harm.
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Yes, Neo-Nazi's use illogical biology to conclude certain things that are not clearly connected. The biology in this thread is talking about known sexual reproductive organs. We're not making conclusions. We're simply saying biological sex is a boy has a penis, a girl has a vagina...... this isn't rooted in hate. This is rooted in science - GASP! Which, science by the way, you have used to defend your point on gender/psychological sex. You're comparing a group's illogical conclusions ultimately founded in hate (NOT IN BIOLOGY - they may use poor biology to defend their views, but their views are founded in HATE, NOT BIOLOGY). My VIEWS (yes, plural) are founded in biology, as well as psychology. There's no hate here. As I said earlier, my viewpoints could easily be described as more open-minded than yours. Which, ultimately, is not typical of a bigot, or someone full of hate. It's more closely used to describe someone shut to all but one viewpoint.

You relayed your Neo-Nazi comparison like you were comparing it to us on this board. I'm not going to shift arguments/debates and continue this thread based upon how stupid your post/comparison was. I don't need to debate it with you - there's really no debate. It was in excess, and it was dumb.
 
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