Grizzlies sign F Miles to second 10-day contract

[Денг Гордон]

Yet I was mocked by the same Bull poster and one of our mods for posting Coon's earlier interpretation of the case.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

You posted the portion about the NBA being able to deny trades to circumvent the CBA, citing Coon's fact. I posted the actual text, noting that it is much broader than just trades, and does include claiming a player off waivers.

What constitutes a medical retirement and what puts the money back on the cap is completely different from that.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The curse lives on.

Ever since inserting Miles for the last 1:46 of their 20-point blow-out of the Mavs, the Grizz have gone winless.

They are currently at 6 losses in a row. They have 5 games in the next 10 days. So, we could be looking at 11 in a row. However, the upcoming schedule will really put the curse to the test. They play Charlotte, the Knicks and the Thunder within the next 10 days. If they don't win at least one of those, we'll know the curse is invincible. Here's to hoping they sign him for the rest of the season and set a new NBA record by losing 48 in a row to close out the season.

BNM

The curse lives on. The Grizzlies lost to the Bobcats by 15 tonight. That's seven in a row.

I guess Darius really is part of the Grizzlies re-building plan. Having him on the roster seems destined to insure a high lottery pick (although, not higher than 4th, thanks to the curse).

BNM

 

[Денг Гордон]

Circumventing the cap through a lopsided deal to disrupt competitive balance. Cut and dry according to the CBA.

But it's not lopsided.

Pau Gasol - 17.7 PPG 9.3 RPG 0.9 BPG

Marc Gasol - 11.3 PPG 7.3 RPG 1.1 BPG
Darrell Arthur - 5.2 PPG 4.1 RPG 0.7 BPG
Javaris Crittenton - 2.7 PPG 0.9 RPG
Combined - 19.2 PPG 12.4 RPG 1.8 BPG

And this is ignoring the fact that Marc Gasol and Darrell Arthur are both young, and should logically get better with more years in the league...and also the 2010 draft pick, and whatever Memphis gets as a result of the capspace they received from the trade this summer or next.

It would make the NBA a joke to have denied that trade.

 

[RoyToy]

Darrell Arthur wasn't even in the NBA last year.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Darrell Arthur wasn't even in the NBA last year.

But the Grizzlies got the pick from the Lakers which they used on Donte Greene, who they traded for Darrell Arthur on draft night.

 

[PapaG]

But it's not lopsided.

Pau Gasol - 17.7 PPG 9.3 RPG 0.9 BPG

Marc Gasol - 11.3 PPG 7.3 RPG 1.1 BPG
Darrell Arthur - 5.2 PPG 4.1 RPG 0.7 BPG
Javaris Crittenton - 2.7 PPG 0.9 RPG
Combined - 19.2 PPG 12.4 RPG 1.8 BPG

And this is ignoring the fact that Marc Gasol and Darrell Arthur are both young, and should logically get better with more years in the league...and also the 2010 draft pick, and whatever Memphis gets as a result of the capspace they received from the trade this summer or next.

It would make the NBA a joke to have denied that trade.

LOL

Memphis was a 49-win team two and a half years ago and then started the fire sale. Stern let them do it. The Lakers went from just another team without Pau Gasol to the best team in the West.

That was a pretty easy deal to question, plus, Darrell Arthur was originally a Blazer draft pick, so I'm not sure what he had to do with the Laker trade.

 

[maxiep]

Two first round draft picks, a young prospect (Marc Gasol) and cap relief seems like fair compensation for Gasol. Not sure why the NBA would question that.

Much better than the Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, and Joakim Noah trade that was on the table. (Although Thomas/Noah have played better as of late, but I'd rather have Gasol).

You mean two picks in the late 20s, a 2nd round pick (Gasol), one of the great busts of all time and Javaris Crittendon? I'd take the Bulls offer and bank that Ty Thomas and Noah in an uptempo system would be beasts.

 

[RoyToy]

Btw, this is the first time I've seen someone say that that trade wasn't lopsided. That was a gift from the Memphis Grizzlies.

I will however keep in mind that this is the same person that said Derrick Rose is a superstar, and that it'd take Roy+LA/Oden for the Blazers to get Rose, as if the Blazers would ever even consider that trade.

 

[maxiep]

But it's not lopsided.

Pau Gasol - 17.7 PPG 9.3 RPG 0.9 BPG

Marc Gasol - 11.3 PPG 7.3 RPG 1.1 BPG
Darrell Arthur - 5.2 PPG 4.1 RPG 0.7 BPG
Javaris Crittenton - 2.7 PPG 0.9 RPG
Combined - 19.2 PPG 12.4 RPG 1.8 BPG

And this is ignoring the fact that Marc Gasol and Darrell Arthur are both young, and should logically get better with more years in the league...and also the 2010 draft pick, and whatever Memphis gets as a result of the capspace they received from the trade this summer or next.

It would make the NBA a joke to have denied that trade.

I remember when we traded a bunch of players for Scottie Pippen. Their sum vastly exceeded what Pip brought. However, Houston went into the tank and we went to the Western Conference Finals a couple of times.

 

[Boob-No-More]

But it's not lopsided.

Pau Gasol - 17.7 PPG 9.3 RPG 0.9 BPG

Marc Gasol - 11.3 PPG 7.3 RPG 1.1 BPG
Darrell Arthur - 5.2 PPG 4.1 RPG 0.7 BPG
Javaris Crittenton - 2.7 PPG 0.9 RPG
Combined - 19.2 PPG 12.4 RPG 1.8 BPG

And this is ignoring the fact that Marc Gasol and Darrell Arthur are both young, and should logically get better with more years in the league...and also the 2010 draft pick, and whatever Memphis gets as a result of the capspace they received from the trade this summer or next.

It would make the NBA a joke to have denied that trade.

Interesting take. The problem is, you can't compare the production of one player to three. For one thing the minutes aren't equal. Pau puts up his numbers in 35.5 MPG, the other three need 55.7 MPG to put up their combined stats.

And, by the logic of your argument, this would be a good trade:

Kobe Bryant - 27.0 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.1 APG

Travis Outlaw - 11.7 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 1.0 APG
Steve Blake - 11.6 PPG, 2.3 RPG, 4.7 APG
Channing Frye - 4.1 PPG, 2.1 RPG, 0.5 APG
Combined - 27.4 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 6.2 APG

Think the Lakers would do that trade? After all, Blake, Outlaw and Frye are all younger than Bryant. Hell, we'll even throw in our 2010 draft pick.

BNM

 

[Денг Гордон]

Interesting take. The problem is, you can't compare the production of one player to three. For one thing the minutes aren't equal. Pau puts up his numbers in 35.5 MPG, the other three need 55.7 MPG to put up their combined stats.

And, by the logic of your argument, this would be a good trade:

Kobe Bryant - 27.0 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 5.1 APG

Travis Outlaw - 11.7 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 1.0 APG
Steve Blake - 11.6 PPG, 2.3 RPG, 4.7 APG
Channing Frye - 4.1 PPG, 2.1 RPG, 0.5 APG
Combined - 27.4 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 6.2 APG

Think the Lakers would do that trade? After all, Blake, Outlaw and Frye are all younger than Bryant. Hell, we'll even throw in our 2010 draft pick.

BNM

I'm not saying that makes it a good trade, although it is for Memphis, because they were going nowhere with Pau Gasol. A mutually good trade for both teams. But the point is that just based on the visual stat check, that should warrant the trade not being so lopsided that the NBA should have denied it. And even that is ignoring that there should be further development from Gasol and Arthur, and the Grizzlies should get something nice as a result of the cap relief.

Say they sign Ben Gordon (they won't because of his position in reality) this summer in free agency as a result of their cap relief.

Ben Gordon + Marc Gasol + Darrell Arthur + 2010 Draft Pick. Is that really a lopsided trade? They were 22-60 two years ago, and were 13-33 when they made the trade.

Grizzlies needed a trade that could help improve their franchise. Getting a good young prospect back, and then cap relief, where they can get an established player to add to their young core is a good way to do that. Much better than taking on Chicago's young prospects, an overpaid Andres Nocioni, while receiving zero cap flexibility form the trade.

 

[Denny Crane]

Are the Knicks paying the price for eating Cat Mobley's contract? Rules are rules and Portland followed them.

Yes, the Knicks are paying Mobley's contract.

What about it?

http://sportstwo.com/NBASalaries.php?#jump_NYK

one season at $9.25M

 

[Denny Crane]

What you've posted makes sense, but it's fundamentally untrue. It is ruled a "career-ending injury" not a "retirement". The 10-game rule was put in precisely for Allan Houston. The Knicks wanted to get the career-ending label put on him. They then wanted to re-sign him to a vet min contract, thereby circumventing the cap. The problem with this rule is it is being applied in a way that was never conceived of by either the league or the NBAPA.

Like I said, you keep posting stuff, but you never bother to understand the situation. Educating you is tough work; you're pretty dense. I hope you do better in college than you do in this forum.

Seems like the provision would read "no team may resign their own player given the career-ending label for one year"

 

[craigehlo]

Grizzlies needed a trade that could help improve their franchise.

That trade had nothing to do with improving and everything to do with saving a buck. Making other arguments is almost incomprehensible.

This quote from the Grizz owner tell you all you need to know about his basketball acumen and how tightly the organization is run:

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…” - Michael Heisley

 

[Denny Crane]

That trade had nothing to do with improving and everything to do with saving a buck. Making other arguments is almost incomprehensible.

This quote from the Grizz owner tell you all you need to know about his basketball acumen and how tightly the organization is run:

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…” - Michael Heisley

While I do remember that Memphis was over the cap and looking to shave payroll, I also remember that Gasol was being mercilessly booed by the home fans and his time was basically done in Memphis regardless. To say it had nothing to do with improving isn't quite right, IMO. Sometimes you get better by addition through subtraction (subtracting the guy who gets booed). I'm sure that saving a buck was part of the equation that satisfied Memphis, though.

 

[craigehlo]

While I do remember that Memphis was over the cap and looking to shave payroll, I also remember that Gasol was being mercilessly booed by the home fans and his time was basically done in Memphis regardless. To say it had nothing to do with improving isn't quite right, IMO. Sometimes you get better by addition through subtraction (subtracting the guy who gets booed). I'm sure that saving a buck was part of the equation that satisfied Memphis, though.

Yea, but Gasol wasn't holding the development of other players back. The fans were booing because the team was losing and Pau was the team leader. Addition by subtraction is what I'd call trading Iverson or similar "black hole" players.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yea, but Gasol wasn't holding the development of other players back. The fans were booing because the team was losing and Pau was the team leader. Addition by subtraction is what I'd call trading Iverson or similar "black hole" players.

Seems to me the knock on Gasol was that teams built around him won 50 games in the regular season and bowed out early in the playoffs. Then the team stopped looking like even a 50 win team, they still had Gasol, he was being booed (which does hurt the other players' confidence), and his trade value was falling.

Memphis tried to pry Luol Deng from the Bulls but Paxson was only willing to give up a package of lesser players. Though the deal he offered may have been "better" than what Memphis accepted, Memphis' calculus was to go for a couple of prospects in Crittendon and Marc Gasol and to free up a lot of cap space to be FA players. I don't really find fault in that.

Though LA was obviously helped enormously by this deal, they did take a similarly "bad" deal for Shaq back in the day. It is how those things work out.

 

[drexlersdad]

Seems to me the knock on Gasol was that teams built around him won 50 games in the regular season and bowed out early in the playoffs. Then the team stopped looking like even a 50 win team, they still had Gasol, he was being booed (which does hurt the other players' confidence), and his trade value was falling.

Memphis tried to pry Luol Deng from the Bulls but Paxson was only willing to give up a package of lesser players. Though the deal he offered may have been "better" than what Memphis accepted, Memphis' calculus was to go for a couple of prospects in Crittendon and Marc Gasol and to free up a lot of cap space to be FA players. I don't really find fault in that.

Though LA was obviously helped enormously by this deal, they did take a similarly "bad" deal for Shaq back in the day. It is how those things work out.

who did they pick up?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

who did they pick up?

They have been saving the cap space so they can offer Miles a huge contarct this summer.

 

[alex42083]

Yeah, the Memphis trade was not fair. Their own owner questioned whether Chris Wallace got enough for Gasol, and believed he could have if he waited it out a little more.
The Grizzlies are not attracting any big-time FAs like Wade, LeBron, Bosh or whoever their dream is. Cap space = overrated, especially for really bad teams.
The only FAs they attract are washed-up guys looking to make a comeback like Darius Miles. Mayo and Gay are going to bolt the first time they get the chance to. Fans are tuning out of their place as they're second to last in the league in attendance.

 

[maxiep]

Yes, the Knicks are paying Mobley's contract.

What about it?

http://sportstwo.com/NBASalaries.php?#jump_NYK

one season at $9.25M

They're paying it, but it's not on their cap.

Again, no one is trying to deny Miles the money he's entitled through on his contract. No one is trying to keep him from earning a living. We're trying to keep the money that was off our cap from wrongly being put back on.

I'll give you one other scenario. What if--because he didn't retire--we demanded that he play 35 minutes a night and participate in every practice because his contract says he has to earn his money? What if Miles' knees agressively deteriorated because of it? What if he required two knee replacements before he turned 30? Regardless of the fact we didn't want him, the Blazers, the NBA and the NBAPA were acting in Darius' best interest. The fact he doesn't wish to avoid knee replacement surgery is neither in the Blazers' control nor is it their fault, yet their the ones paying the price for Miles' irresponsibility.

 

[maxiep]

who did they pick up?

Darius Miles.

 

[rocketeer]

let's stop this talk about the gasol trade not being fair. it absolutely was fair. memphis got a couple of prospects, a pick, and expiring contracts. that is exactly what memphis wanted to get. what better deal was there for them?

 

[PapaG]

let's stop this talk about the gasol trade not being fair. it absolutely was fair. memphis got a couple of prospects, a pick, and expiring contracts. that is exactly what memphis wanted to get. what better deal was there for them?

Ask Heisley. He apparently has the same question.

 

[Masbee]

let's stop this talk about the gasol trade not being fair. it absolutely was fair. memphis got a couple of prospects, a pick, and expiring contracts. that is exactly what memphis wanted to get. what better deal was there for them?

Who is to know when the Grizz made the trade weeks before the trade deadline? The best deals usually only present themselves at the very last moment.

After the trade went down, there were lots of quotes from unnamed NBA execs saying if they had known they could have got Gasol for so "cheap" they would have made an offer, but that previously Wallace had been demanding too much (much more than what he ended up accepting) and was rebuffed.

Wallace to GMs - "I demand a prime All-Star in return".

GM's - No

Wallace to GMs - "I demand full cap relief and your best young player in return."

GM's - No

Wallace to Lakers - "Give me partial cap relief and a couple of low picks and a young player getting little time on your roster"

Lakers - "Ok"

Who questioned this deal? Almost everyone. Popovich. The owner of the Grizz. Every NBA writer on the planet.

 

[elcap15]

what a bunch of whiners here. Any deal that two teams agree to is a fair deal. Was the Shaq to Miami trade fair? Was LMA for Tyrus Thomas fair? Was KG to Boston fair? It doesnt matter what Popovich thinks or any other unnamed GM who "would have" made a better offer think. It has nothing to do with them

Face it, if the it was different team than the Lakers, you wouldnt even be talking about this still.

 

[rocketeer]

After the trade went down, there were lots of quotes from unnamed NBA execs saying if they had known they could have got Gasol for so "cheap" they would have made an offer, but that previously Wallace had been demanding too much (much more than what he ended up accepting) and was rebuffed.

if he was demanding too much and other teams didn't bother to make offers, they have no one to blame but themselves.

the grizzlies got marc gasol, crittendon, two late firsts, and a 9 mil expiring contract for gasol. i'm not sure there was another offer out there that would have gotten memphis two young prospects, two picks, and a large expiring contract like this did.

 

[alex42083]

Didn't Memphis already trade away Crittendon?

 

[La Bomba]

Didn't Memphis already trade away Crittendon?

Yes.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yes.

So giz fan . . . what do you think the griz are going to do with Miles?

And was this a legit signing or messing with the Blazers?