Harkless over Leonard

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Natebishop3 said:
If you want to win games, you don't start Leonard. If you want to develop talent and boost your lottery chances, you start Leonard.
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If we want to win games we play Kaman and Vonleh rides pine. Ditto Henderson/Crabbe (which hopefully we do when Henderson is back).
Regardless of whether Leonard starts or not, he deserves a minimum of 20mpg this season so we know what to do with him come Trade Deadline/summer. But yanking him from the starting line-up right now would be a huge mistake (other than for injury purposes).
 
blue9 said:
If we want to win games we play Kaman and Vonleh rides pine. Ditto Henderson/Crabbe (which hopefully we do when Henderson is back).
Regardless of whether Leonard starts or not, he deserves a minimum of 20mpg this season so we know what to do with him come Trade Deadline/summer. But yanking him from the starting line-up right now would be a huge mistake (other than for injury purposes).
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Yeah Leonard should be getting 20-24. The injury might be a natural point to "ease him back in"... if he kills it off the bench, and Harkless kills it as a starter, maybe that's better for everyone, like how Outlaw played better off the bench and Batum played better as a starter...

...bad example, but you get what I mean.
 
magnifier661 said:
I agree with this. I just don't see him as a PF like everyone keeps trying to say he is. He is a 5 because he is more a "spot up shooter" without inside game. He can still defend other centers well and rebounds. Forcing him to play 4, and starting for that matter, is a big mistake. Let him score off the bench
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yep and nice to see u around Mags
 
Natebishop3 said:
If you want to win games, you don't start Leonard. If you want to develop talent and boost your lottery chances, you start Leonard.
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I agree with the part about boosting our lotto chances. I disagree with the talent development part.
 
blue9 said:
Yeah, write him off after 5 games. Smart. Even though he's been in the league longer than Plumlee he hasn't had a shot until now, where Plumlee was a regular rotation player. Plumlee is also two years older. When he was drafted it was known that he was a multi-year project. This is the last year of that project - to end it 5 games into the year is just dumb. It's that sort of thinking that lead to us getting Harkless.
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Do you know the first rule for trying to escape from a hole?

STOP DIGGING!

Too many other players fighting for playing time to keep making excuses and giving Leonard a free pass. If you keep handing him chances he hasn't earned, what kind of a message does that send to all the other young guys?
 
BlazerCaravan said:
Starting Harkless over Leonard is still developing talent though (Moe is young). Just give Leonard 24 minutes a game behind Plums and Aminu.
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I am good with this when everyone is healthy.

Dame-CJ
CJ-Henderson
Harkless-Crabbe
Aminu-Davis
Plumlee-Leonard

Vonleh is the odd man out though. He needs some minutes
 
oldmangrouch said:
Do you know the first rule for trying to escape from a hole?

STOP DIGGING!

Too many other players fighting for playing time to keep making excuses and giving Leonard a free pass. If you keep handing him chances he hasn't earned, what kind of a message does that send to all the other young guys?
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He kind of has earned it. He played well in the playoffs and preseason. So far he has 5 bad shooting games. He needs to step it up if he wants to continue to play, but I would argue that he did earn those minutes to start the season.
 
umm, giving up on Leonard now would be pretty stupid. I might agree come the end of the season, but not now.
 
Schilly said:
I think Meyers will be fine, either as a starter or a rotational guy off the bench. I think he is struggling with the pressure of starting right now, and also with the team being basically an all new look. I believe he will settle in and settle down a bit and then he will be fine.

One would think posters in here would eventually learn to not have complete on off switches about players essentially 4 games into a season.
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Interesting take. We will see if he turns it around against Memphis...
 
Leonard had a pretty good game against Memphis. Easily his best all year. Meyers really benefits by playing against big slow guys who take longer to close in on his slow release.

But it was funny listening to Chris Webber say that Memphis' style just isn't going to work in the modern NBA. Maybe the Leonard/Plumlee front court solves a problem that is largely going away (except against a few teams like Memphis, Spurs and Clips).

I think Leonard's natural position is center, but he's not even remotely close to outplaying Plumlee to have that starting job. Maybe having him come off the bench for Plumlee is the right call. Play each 10 minutes and distribute minutes at the end of the game based on who is doing better.

In a tight game where free throws come into play at the end, I'd definitely rather see Meyers out there. Plumlee is just painful at the stripe.
 
mook said:
Leonard had a pretty good game against Memphis. Easily his best all year. Meyers really benefits by playing against big slow guys who take longer to close in on his slow release.

But it was funny listening to Chris Webber say that Memphis' style just isn't going to work in the modern NBA. Maybe the Leonard/Plumlee front court solves a problem that is largely going away (except against a few teams like Memphis, Spurs and Clips).

I think Leonard's natural position is center, but he's not even remotely close to outplaying Plumlee to have that starting job. Maybe having him come off the bench for Plumlee is the right call. Play each 10 minutes and distribute minutes at the end of the game based on who is doing better.

In a tight game where free throws come into play at the end, I'd definitely rather see Meyers out there. Plumlee is just painful at the stripe.
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After seeing this game, I'm good w/ starting him (playing him as many minutes as we can) against all the teams you listed ^; now against the rest of the league... I'm w/ you on having him come off the bench most of the time w/:
BlazerCaravan said:
... Leonard... getting 20-24.
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IF the chance comes to trade/package Meyers to get a better player(s)... I'd do it in a heartbeat; if we don't get a deal that makes sense/is any good, I'm ok w/ keeping him but I think the best move is to move him this year before we have to pay him/while he's an asset/has the most value.

I love how the team plays w/ Moe; I'm a fan of starting him/playing him more minutes most nights:-)
 
Leonard has improved in his shooting, but I still don't see a lot that Leonard brings to the table that Harkless doesn't do better.

Really hoping Stotts uses the Lillard/CJ/Harkless/Aminu/Plumlee lineup down the stretch against the Spurs. Aldridge is going to take his jumpshots anyway, so you might as well make him move around a lot on the other end.
 
I just think Meyers is a backup quality player. But some loser-ass team is probably going to give him a re-donkulas contract next offseason and end up with buyer's remose.
 
Sinobas said:
I just think Meyers is a backup quality player. But some loser-ass team is probably going to give him a re-donkulas contract next offseason and end up with buyer's remose.
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Yeah, I think you may be right about that.
 
Sinobas said:
I just think Meyers is a backup quality player. But some loser-ass team is probably going to give him a re-donkulas contract next offseason and end up with buyer's remose.
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Part of what made Meyers seem awesome was that he filled the backup center role we tried to give to Hawes, and did it better than Hawes. Leonard is a quality reserve, but doesn't have enough tools to start yet.
 
This is a make or break season for Meyers and he's earned a shot..he's going to play more minutes than he ever has and we'll see where that goes.
 
BBert said:
Best thing about that link: Be sure to watch the video of the interview with CJ. He's so smart. But the best part, is when he calls out the media guys interviewing him for criticizing him, calling him unathletic, etc. It's gold.
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I didn't see the link
 
I see Leonard as being like Travis Outhouse. If you keep him, you'll just wait forever for him to take that "next step". He teases you with his jump shot, and physical tools.
 
Sinobas said:
I see Leonard as being like Travis Outhouse. If you keep him, you'll just wait forever for him to take that "next step". He teases you with his jump shot, and physical tools.
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There's probably some truth to that. The big difference is that Outlaw was 6'8 while Leonard is 7'1. Leonard is also clearly a better passer. (Like, he knows how to.) I know which guy I'd rather have as my one dimensional scorer off the bench.
 
Sinobas said:
I see Leonard as being like Travis Outhouse. If you keep him, you'll just wait forever for him to take that "next step". He teases you with his jump shot, and physical tools.
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The key to getting value from a guy like Travis (or Batum, or Mo) is twofold.

1) Don't overpay them.
2) Don't ask them to do too much.

Travis had some success as a Blazer because they followed those rules. You could say the same for RoLo. Mo had a team friendly deal, but was asked to take on too big of a role. Batum...let's just say they got it doubly wrong.

Leonard is a poor man's Mo. His contract isn't a burden (yet), but he is incapable of handling the role he has been given (starting PF). To make matters worse, he is expecting a big payday that he has yet to earn. The team needs to avoid the mistake they made with Batum.

Leonard might be worth keeping as a back-up center - but only if he is willing to be paid accordingly. If he gets greedy, he needs to go the way of Mo and RoLo.
 
In hindsight, the biggest mistake we made with Outlaw was not trading him before he peaked. We got a breaking-down Marcus Camby for Trout, but if we'd ditched him a year earlier we could've got more. Maybe a decent pick. A lot of jaws were dropping back then over his jumper and his insane vertical.

It'd take some huge brass balls to do it, but I could see Portland trading Leonard before the deadline for picks to somebody like Philly. In the end we have a lot of nice young options at PF between Alexander, Aminu and Vonleh, and Plumlee has the starting center job sewn up.

I'd like our front office to have more room to get creative with drafting/trading. They seem pretty good at it.
 
What ever happened to Moe Harkless? In the month of December, he has scored a total of 12 points in 94 minutes of game time, on 33% shooting, and only 20% from 3. Is it just Henderson's presence in the lineup, or Crabbe's emergence? Sure, he's not getting a ton of minutes, but even when he's out there, he suddenly seems invisible.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
What ever happened to Moe Harkless? In the month of December, he has scored a total of 12 points in 94 minutes of game time, on 33% shooting, and only 20% from 3. Is it just Henderson's presence in the lineup, or Crabbe's emergence? Sure, he's not getting a ton of minutes, but even when he's out there, he suddenly seems invisible.
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Yeah, very disappointed that he isn't in more and showing more. I think it is mainly displaced by Crabbe, who has earned it. I can't argue with the coaching decisions on this, but hope that Harkless will fight back at some point.
 
Reep said:
Yeah, very disappointed that he isn't in more and showing more. I think it is mainly displaced by Crabbe, who has earned it. I can't argue with the coaching decisions on this, but hope that Harkless will fight back at some point.
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Crabbe is killing it. I see him as our starting shooting guard going forward, which is great because it means we can really focus on small forward. I think that's our key position that needs to be targeted this summer. I think that we have PG, SG, and C locked down. I'm really pleased with Dame, Crabbe/CJ, and Plumlee/Davis. Unless we're getting someone like DMC, I don't see much need to go after a center. Small forward and power forward are still a bit of a question mark. I like Vonleh, and I'd like to see how he continues to develop, but Aminu is a backup to me. He doesn't provide enough scoring, and with Vonleh and Plums we could really use more consistent scoring out of the SF position.
 
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