Harkless resolves after Crabbe decision?

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jlprk said:
Olshey very publicly announced that Turner will start. At that moment, Harkless lost his starting job. So Harkless and agent have made a list of teams where he has a higher chance of starting than here (for example 25%, since Olshey brilliantly announced that here, the chance is 0%). He and his agent are now having those teams compete to get the highest offer, where he will sign even if it's for less money (but more minutes, and a chance to start) than here.

He is gone. Thanks, O...O...Olshey.
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Please, show us links where you have all that info. Sounds like a bunch of TMZ rumor stuff (Not the olshey publicly annoucing).
 
Blazers Roy said:
I just don't like "per 36 minutes" numbers comparisons in general, i deliberately choose an extreme example like Cliff just to show how silly those stats can be.

I'm not denying their numbers are similar, but i'm not even sure we should rely solely on stats in this debate, we have to factor in stuff like their mental game,talent,potential ceiling,ability to shine in playoffs games,toughness,physical durability,mobility in a league trending more towards stretch 4s .
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Not a fan of the per 36 either. Good call.
 
Blazers Roy said:
I just don't like "per 36 minutes" numbers comparisons in general, i deliberately choose an extreme example like Cliff just to show how silly those stats can be.

I'm not denying their numbers are similar, but i'm not even sure we should rely solely on stats in this debate, we have to factor in stuff like their mental game,talent,potential ceiling,ability to shine in playoffs games,toughness,physical durability,mobility in a league trending more towards stretch 4s .
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All stats need a frame of reference. Meyers and Mo played very similar minutes with a similar division of those minutes between starting and coming off the bench. The sample size, in this particular case was very comparable and relevant.

The problem comes when someone attempts to use a very small sample size to extrapolate how a player will perform in a much larger role against better competition - which is what you did with Alexander. I agree, that such extrapolations are ridiculous.

Aminu is our starting stretch 4 and Leonard can play the back up stretch 4, or better still, a back up stretch 5. When paired with Davis, Meyers can defend the 5 spot with Davis defending the 4. On the other end, Meyers creates spacing and Davis works down low, taking advantage of both players' strengths.

Also, if ability to shine in the playoffs is a consideration, Meyers totally killed it in the MEM series.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
All stats need a frame of reference. Meyers and Mo played very similar minutes with a similar division of those minutes between starting and coming off the bench. The sample size, in this particular case was very comparable and relevant.

The problem comes when someone attempts to use a very small sample size to extrapolate how a player will perform in a much larger role against better competition - which is what you did with Alexander. I agree, that such extrapolations are ridiculous.

Aminu is our starting stretch 4 and Leonard can play the back up stretch 4, or better still, a back up stretch 5. When paired with Davis, Meyers can defend the 5 spot with Davis defending the 4. On the other end, Meyers creates spacing and Davis works down low, taking advantage of both players' strengths.

Also, if ability to shine in the playoffs is a consideration, Meyers totally killed it in the MEM series.

BNM
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The Memphis series where Gasol averaged 20/9/5 and won 4 games to 1?
 
HailBlazers said:
Yea the series you didn't watch. Or maybe you turn off the game when Leonard's in? That takes some seriously strong hate.
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I watched every second, as I do all games....when able, which is 99%.

I saw him play Gasol up. I also saw him miss a billion rotations allowing Gasol to pick us apart. Maybe it's not me who's not watching?
 
Is Waiters an option if Harkless goes elsewhere? How much would he command in a contract?
 
Boob-No-More said:
All stats need a frame of reference. Meyers and Mo played very similar minutes with a similar division of those minutes between starting and coming off the bench. The sample size, in this particular case was very comparable and relevant.

The problem comes when someone attempts to use a very small sample size to extrapolate how a player will perform in a much larger role against better competition - which is what you did with Alexander. I agree, that such extrapolations are ridiculous.

Aminu is our starting stretch 4 and Leonard can play the back up stretch 4, or better still, a back up stretch 5. When paired with Davis, Meyers can defend the 5 spot with Davis defending the 4. On the other end, Meyers creates spacing and Davis works down low, taking advantage of both players' strengths.

Also, if ability to shine in the playoffs is a consideration, Meyers totally killed it in the MEM series.

BNM
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Meyers looks bad as a 4, Davis is the only guy who can play with him because he is more mobile, but Davis has to change his play style when he's playing with Leonard.

Someone has to defend the other team's forwards\stretch 4 right? so Davis is chasing those guys while Leonard is parked in the paint...what are we gaining here? Davis takes less rebounds,spends energy chasing forwards? Leonard's softness in the paint?

Maybe i'm wrong, but it seemed like the team was more aggressive when Meyers went down, less stagnant play and more getting to the rim.

When Leonard is missing 3 pointers he's getting sad and pouts, when Harkless is missing a jump-shot he is trying to dunk it on the next possession.
 
Strenuus said:
Please, show us links where you have all that info. Sounds like a bunch of TMZ rumor stuff (Not the olshey publicly annoucing).
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Well, I guess I'll have to reason this out with you. Harkless not signing yet is because of delay from either 1) Harkless or 2) Olshey. The guy delaying is delaying because he's pursuing other options, trying to make something happen. Can you think of any other reason to delay? You seem to think it's Olshey, not Harkless, who's pursuing options. But when Olshey does that, he normally doesn't lie to the media that he's negotiating with the player. You want me to cite an article, not just common sense, so here's one.

The waiting game continues for restricted free agent Maurice Harkless and the Trail Blazers, as the two sides are "not any closer" to reaching a deal according to his agent, Happy Walters.

Walters says several teams have shown interest in Harkless, but the small forward wants to re-sign with Portland. However, talks with the Blazers have shown "no movement" in recent days. If Harkless receives an offer from another team, the Blazers will have three days to decide whether to match the offer.

...Walters said there is a chance Harkless will accept the one-year qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent after the 2016-2017 season. "He's in no rush" to make a decision, Walters said.
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http://www.csnnw.com/portland-trail...s-not-any-closer-getting-free-agent-deal-done
 
jlprk said:
Olshey very publicly announced that Turner will start. At that moment, Harkless lost his starting job. So Harkless and agent have made a list of teams where he has a higher chance of starting than here (for example 25%, since Olshey brilliantly announced that here, the chance is 0%). He and his agent are now having those teams compete to get the highest offer, where he will sign even if it's for less money (but more minutes, and a chance to start) than here.

He is gone. Thanks, O...O...Olshey.
Click to expand...

jlprk said:
Well, I guess I'll have to reason this out with you. Harkless not signing yet is because of delay from either 1) Harkless or 2) Olshey. The guy delaying is delaying because he's pursuing other options, trying to make something happen. Can you think of any other reason to delay? You seem to think it's Olshey, not Harkless, who's pursuing options. But when Olshey does that, he normally doesn't lie to the media that he's negotiating with the player. You want me to cite an article, not just common sense, so here's one.



http://www.csnnw.com/portland-trail...s-not-any-closer-getting-free-agent-deal-done
Click to expand...


Harkless wants to stay here, it says. So it is, technically Olshey, by your paramaters.

And none of those teams are saying "higher chance" of a starting role based on your quote. So to say something like that is putting words into their mouths. Reading the article, it never states that "Harkless and agent have made a list of teams where he has a higher chance of starting" ... and no teams are "competiting" or there would be offers.

It looks like a whole bunch of "I need to know what's going on, so I'll fill in the blanks" when there aren't any blanks there to start. Were just at the thesis, we don't need to write the whole paper before doing research.

I do love his agent's name though!

And, I've been adamant about this since the Preseason... Harkless would be amazing here. We need to keep him.
 
It's just common sense. Are you doubting that Harkless and his agent have made a list of the best teams for him that can also afford him? I don't know any other way to go about it.

Are you doubting that he is asking them about his chances of starting? That he and his agent have pre-estimated his chances of starting and ranked the teams by preferability? Which part of common sense are you doubting?

My point was that if Olshey hadn't taken away Harkless' starting job, and had left the decision to whoever looks best in the preseason...like every other GM and coach do...If Olshey hadn't pulled the rug out from under Harkless, he'd be more likely to return, and the reason for the delay is probably that Harkless now knows he has 100% chance of returning to the bench for reduced minutes.

I think Harkless will not return, because there are teams where his chance of playing a bigger role than here, exceeds 0%. My point was, Olshey's big mouth caused the current problem.
 
jlprk said:
It's just common sense. Are you doubting that Harkless and his agent have made a list of the best teams for him that can also afford him? I don't know any other way to go about it.
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Just because Brooklyn can offer you the most, its not common sense to want to play there.

jlprk said:
Are you doubting that he is asking them about his chances of starting? That he and his agent have pre-estimated his chances of starting and ranked the teams by preferability? Which part of common sense are you doubting?
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I'm doubting that he's proved he's a starter in the league.

jlprk said:
My point was that if Olshey hadn't taken away Harkless' starting job, and had left the decision to whoever looks best in the preseason...like every other GM and coach do...If Olshey hadn't pulled the rug out from under Harkless, he'd be more likely to return, and the reason for the delay is probably that Harkless now knows he has 100% chance of returning to the bench for reduced minutes.
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If you're not good enough the starting job is taken from you, simple as that. If you have been a bench player your whole career, don't expect things to be handed to you at the first glimpse of success.

jlprk said:
I think Harkless will not return, because there are teams where his chance of playing a bigger role than here, exceeds 0%. My point was, Olshey's big mouth caused the current problem.
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Bigger role doesn't always equal better, sure he could have a bigger role in Brooklyn, but without the proper coach/system you can really hurt your value as a player in the long run. If Hark is smart, he will continue to develop here and be patient for the big deal down the road.
 
HailBlazers said:
Just because Brooklyn can offer you the most, its not common sense to want to play there.



I'm doubting that he's proved he's a starter in the league.



If you're not good enough the starting job is taken from you, simple as that. If you have been a bench player your whole career, don't expect things to be handed to you at the first glimpse of success.



Bigger role doesn't always equal better, sure he could have a bigger role in Brooklyn, but without the proper coach/system you can really hurt your value as a player in the long run. If Hark is smart, he will continue to develop here and be patient for the big deal down the road.
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This makes no sense. As a pro athlete, especially a young one who hasn't made a gazillion dollars, you need to get paid when you can. It would be completely foolish for him to stay in Portland for 1 year 5 million, rather than go to Brooklyn, or anywhere else, for that matter, at 4 years 20 million. Knee injuries happen every day
 
If he wants a max contract and won't budge, there's no way he's going to be signed to anything but the QO.
 
I don't believe for a moment that he actually is saying he has to have a max contract. His agent is likely putting that out there because then they can say, "Hey, look, we signed a 4 for 70 deal. You guys got a steal after we caved in and lowered our demands!".
 
http://www.blazersedge.com/2016/7/1...-moe-harkless-portland-trail-blazers-contract

Moe Harkless And Trail Blazers At A Standstill

Harkless has been allowed to sign elsewhere since July 7, and the market is slowly drying up as teams fill out their rosters. On June 30, NBA insider Alex Kennedy reported that the Detroit Pistons, Washington Wizards, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Lakers, andDallas Mavericks were among interested teams. Since, then those teams have signed the following forwards, while making other salary commitments as well:
If nothing develops, Harkless' best option may be to accept the Blazers' qualifying offer and test the market again in 2017. He would have the opportunity to fight for minutes and once again prove his worth in a crowded frontcourt.


 
I don't know why Neil and them did this. Meyers should of been the last one to deal with but for whatever reason they have some strange obsession with him. Harkless stepped up for Meyers at the pf spot and played amazing. i just don't get it. I get the part of us wanting more options and firepower but I just don't see Meyers taking that next step. I see moe taking that next step
 
Cippy91 said:
I don't know why Neil and them did this. Meyers should of been the last one to deal with but for whatever reason they have some strange obsession with him. Harkless stepped up for Meyers at the pf spot and played amazing. i just don't get it. I get the part of us wanting more options and firepower but I just don't see Meyers taking that next step. I see moe taking that next step
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Skill set scarcity, plain and simple. There is nothing Mo does that other players on the roster at his position don't already do as well or better. There are things that Meyers does that no player on the roster as his position can do as well or better. Therefore, Meyers became a higher priority.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Skill set scarcity, plain and simple. There is nothing Mo does that other players on the roster at his position don't already do as well or better. There are things that Meyers does that no player on the roster as his position can do as well or better. Therefore, Meyers became a higher priority.
Click to expand...

I think that the team has a lot invested in Leonard. He's progressed nicely, IMO. I think they want to reap the rewards of their investment.
 
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