Haywood and Mike Miller to Portland (2 Viewers)

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If we had 22M in cap space, many are suggesting we could use that in a lopsided trade to get a large contract and some assets. Well, now we have 19M in cap space, two future 2nds, and the ability to keep doing this all season long. Isn't using the cap space in this manner what you're trying to do, anyway? I (no sarcasm) don't get the problem.

I think the days of getting 2 future firsts for taking Kurt Thomas' contract off someone's hands are gone. 3M in cap space for 2 2nds seems a pretty good use of opportunity.
 
oldmangrouch said:
On some level, all sports teams are selling hope. The Blazers really aren't doing a great job of that right now.
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They're doing fine; you're just not interested in the particular brand they're selling at the moment. Most real live humans I've spoken with about the team in the past few weeks see the potential and are excited about the possibilities. You'll come around.
 
jlprk said:
What the hell? You want me to quote them all? I'm plowing through acres of sarcastic manure in the middle of the thread.

So do you want me to cite them for you in a big long post? Are you on acid, or did you simply recently go blind?

The number is 75K or 150K, often posted as the only price we paid, in effect. I'll go through the pages if you want me to make a long post to show you.
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It was two trades so the Cavs could get two TPEs.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...an-haywood-mike-miller-portland-trail-blazers

The Cavs will create two trade exceptions with the move, one for $10.5 million, which will be the largest active trade exception in the league, and the other for $2.94 million. The Cavs will also receive cash in the deal, sources said.
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Why would any more than $75K each trade be sent out?

LOL
 
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Draco said:
I hear a lot of people saying we gave up NOTHING. That is incorrect. Having $3 million of extra cap room could be worth something. It very well may amount to nothing but we have 11 months to try and use it first. Not having that small extra amount of space is an advantage we no longer have. I'm all in favor of the trade and think the 2 picks are a solid haul. Maybe Miller can be bought out or traded for a smaller contract. But anyone saying we gave up nothing in this deal is technically wrong.
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If the Blazers outright waive Miller and he signs anywhere for vet minimum, the Blazers' cap hit would be < $1.5M.
 
^Close, but not quite. I think you're thinking of "set-off", which means that if he signs for the vet min somewhere else (roughly 1.5M), then Paul doesn't have to pay part of his salary (the 2.8M "normal, non-trade-kicker" salary) minus whatever he signs for minus the 1yr vet minimum, divided by 2.

In number form: If he signs for vet min (1.5M), then PA owes 2.854M - (1.499M-845k)/2 or just about 2.527M. That's the new cap hit (instead of the 2.854M). Miller, of course, gets his 2.854M, his 400k-ish trade kicker, and the vet min (1.499M). So his salary this year is 4.753M...good if you can get it.
 
BrianFromWA said:
^Close, but not quite. I think you're thinking of "set-off", which means that if he signs for the vet min somewhere else (roughly 1.5M), then Paul doesn't have to pay part of his salary (the 2.8M "normal, non-trade-kicker" salary) minus whatever he signs for minus the 1yr vet minimum, divided by 2.

In number form: If he signs for vet min (1.5M), then PA owes 2.854M - (1.499M-845k)/2 or just about 2.527M. That's the new cap hit (instead of the 2.854M). Miller, of course, gets his 2.854M, his 400k-ish trade kicker, and the vet min (1.499M). So his salary this year is 4.753M...good if you can get it.
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Yep.

Given that he was paid $2.xM, is he only going to get vet minimum tho?
 
Denny Crane said:
Yep.

Given that he was paid $2.xM, is he only going to get vet minimum tho?
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to erase him from our cap, he'd need to sign for 6.5M. To get to your "<1.5m" figure, he'd have to sign for about 3.6M
 
BBert said:
It doesn't matter how much Olshey paid. It's money that was just lying around doing nothing, and has to be spent on either something, or nothing, so he spent it on something. Of course he could have just not done the deal, ended up with the money left lying there at the end of the year, and forfeited however much it was, with nothing in return. I prefer the two tradeable assets, at no extra cost.
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This.
 
BrianFromWA said:
to erase him from our cap, he'd need to sign for 6.5M. To get to your "<1.5m" figure, he'd have to sign for about 3.6M
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Maybe someone like Miami or OKC will give up a 2nd rounder for him. Then he'd be wiped from the cap AND we get another 2nd rounder.
 
Denny Crane said:
Maybe someone like Miami or OKC will give up a 2nd rounder for him. Then he'd be wiped from the cap AND we get another 2nd rounder.
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That's the optimal scenario. Well, maybe even more optimal would be trading him for another young prospect from a team in win now mode.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
That's the optimal scenario. Well, maybe even more optimal would be trading him for another young prospect from a team in win now mode.
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Or keep him if we have a roster spot to spare. His veteran leadership might be good for morale.

But I bet he wants to go play on a contender.
 
Denny Crane said:
Or keep him if we have a roster spot to spare. His veteran leadership might be good for morale.

But I bet he wants to go play on a contender.
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Veteran leadership? Are we talking about "Princess Mikey" Miller? The only thing he'll lead is a conga line to the tiara store...
 
Denny Crane said:
If the Blazers outright waive Miller and he signs anywhere for vet minimum, the Blazers' cap hit would be < $1.5M.
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Ok I'm not certain how this works but my recollection was any offset had to be negotiated with the player and former team at the time of a buyout. If the Blazers just waive him he gets his salary in full and any future salary in full as well. For the Blazers to reduce their cap hit they need an agreement from Miller. It's case by case specific if there's any offset or not and that can be 50/50 between player and former team or some other percentage.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
That's the optimal scenario. Well, maybe even more optimal would be trading him for another young prospect from a team in win now mode.
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Yeah there's really no hurry to waive him. If he wants out now he should give us a big chunk back in a buyout. I wonder what the smallest salary is we can trade him for to an over the cap team? Seems like a possible scenario would be trade him to a contender that wants him for a slightly cheaper player that we can buyout for even less.
 
BrianFromWA said:
^Close, but not quite. I think you're thinking of "set-off", which means that if he signs for the vet min somewhere else (roughly 1.5M), then Paul doesn't have to pay part of his salary (the 2.8M "normal, non-trade-kicker" salary) minus whatever he signs for minus the 1yr vet minimum, divided by 2.

In number form: If he signs for vet min (1.5M), then PA owes 2.854M - (1.499M-845k)/2 or just about 2.527M. That's the new cap hit (instead of the 2.854M). Miller, of course, gets his 2.854M, his 400k-ish trade kicker, and the vet min (1.499M). So his salary this year is 4.753M...good if you can get it.
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Is this a specific rule in the CBA applicable to all contracts or just an example of how other players have been bought out?
 
Draco said:
I wonder what the smallest salary is we can trade him for to an over the cap team? Seems like a possible scenario would be trade him to a contender that wants him for a slightly cheaper player that we can buyout for even less.
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If they're over the threshold, about 2.2M. If they're under, about 1.85M.
 
Draco said:
Yeah there's really no hurry to waive him. If he wants out now he should give us a big chunk back in a buyout. I wonder what the smallest salary is we can trade him for to an over the cap team? Seems like a possible scenario would be trade him to a contender that wants him for a slightly cheaper player that we can buyout for even less.
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you'd think we'd go the other direction, though...take a team that's close to the tax and do a lopsided trade involving Miller. We use up some more space (we still have way more than anyone else) and get more picks/assets.
 
BrianFromWA said:
you'd think we'd go the other direction, though...take a team that's close to the tax and do a lopsided trade involving Miller. We use up some more space (we still have way more than anyone else) and get more picks/assets.
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Not a whole lot of teams barely over the tax line though, and of those that are, none that seem to be decent options for what you suggest here. Spurs? Nothing we want that they'd part with. Heat? We'd have to take back both McBob and Anderson to get them under the tax line, but what would they give us? Clips are $10M over...can't really help them. Rockets? All their contracts over $3M are key contributors. Golden State? $13M over the tax line.

Only real viable possibilities I see would be Brooklyn sending us Jarrett Jack or Chicago dealing Taj Gibson, but I don't know if they'd be willing/able to send us any assets that would make either of those worthwhile.

On the other hand, Memphis is supposedly one of the teams that is interested in Miller. I could see a Miller/Frazier for Jordan Adams/Russ Smith deal making sense for both sides.
 
BrianFromWA said:
you'd think we'd go the other direction, though...take a team that's close to the tax and do a lopsided trade involving Miller. We use up some more space (we still have way more than anyone else) and get more picks/assets.
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Yeah that's possible too. Might be hard to find a team that wants Miller, Miller wants to play for, needs to cut salary, and has an asset they are willing to give up that we want. But I'm sure we consider both options. If none are available work towards a buyout. But I'd wait on the buyout until training camp unless Miller gives us significant money back.
 
Draco said:
Yeah that's possible too. Might be hard to find a team that wants Miller, Miller wants to play for, needs to cut salary, and has an asset they are willing to give up that we want. But I'm sure we consider both options. If none are available work towards a buyout. But I'd wait on the buyout until training camp unless Miller gives us significant money back.
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Who gives a damn where Miller wants to play?
 
OneLifeToLive said:
Are they Democrats?
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Maybe, but I don't care. They're just not very good people as far as I've seen over the years. I don't believe Reinsdorf's kind of ownership is good for the league.

I can't choose my owner or my management or coach, but I can choose what team to support. They lost me.
 
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